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WW15 - Chiron is a harsh mistress

Molach Wrote:There is some possibility that any alien wins and gets removed from the planet scoring a separate victory if they can kill the other...but is that likely?

I think this is by far the most likely explanation. From a game design perspective if you're including the aliens they almost demand a special approach, and a feuder relationship makes a lot of sense.


Let me have a look at Lewwyn's day 1 play posts 139 and 168
Lewwyn Wrote:I think Tasunke is a legitimate target here. Following the pressure I think he only got a bit worse. As to why the name thing. Who knows? Maybe his name is something that he thinks will be suspicious to the group. In the FFH game some names were suspicious, and personally uber ended up giving me a second cover name because the first cover name was suspicous. All I was saying is that Tasunke was acting squirrelly and he still is.

Lewwyn Wrote:Tasunke that sounds a bit overcompensating to me:
"I have a name but I have to make sure everyone else thinks I don't so I'll complain hard that I don't have a name."

What I find really interesting in the Tasunke vote is that the name is clearly a key feature. In retrospect it really looks to me like he suspects Tasunke of being Marr. He then moves off Tasunke as it becomes clear that he isn't Marr, because Marr probably doesn't have a mason like private forum connection. No interest in the lynch beyond killing his rival? Now that looks like typical lyncher or feuder behaviour.

Pindicator Wrote:Again, Bigger was clear in the setup that names do not equal alignment - why do you think this is not the case with lewwyn?

I think Lewwyn had a fake name and has chosen not to use it. Marr clearly has been provided with a fake name/role, since he is currently hiding from us with it. If Bigger's statement was true, then Marr's name would also not be an indicator of alignment, and Marr's player would have come clean with their own name without any easy fake to use or obvious reason to use it.

Alien names are clearly a special case. I'm not going to say "Lal loves diplomacy and agreements in the lore, so he is clearly a NAPper". But if someone claimed to be a mindworm, I would have approximately the same reaction. In a game where the victory condition is eliminating threats to humanity, I feel that Aliens are a definite suspicious element.
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Bobchillingworth Wrote:I don't follow- how have you narrowed the missing leader to one of those 7 players? Why focus specifically on people who have claimed to not be one of the main leaders as fakes, when Bigger said in the setup that there would be generic individuals involved? This sounds to me like misdirection.

Sure.
I have made some assumptions. I assume that all 14 faction leaders are in the game. This means 7 are non-faction leaders. First day showed these to have no name, and over the course of the day several people said they had no name, just a title, i.e. one of these magnificent se7en.

Now we have 13 claimed named leaders and including Tasunke we have 8 nameless claims. Only 'missing' leader is the usurper alien Marr. I assume he is in the game otherwise Lewwyn's claim is either the GM serious messing his role or a rare stroke of ingenuity on his part.

Next bit I did not explain. But I assume that the alien did not claim a name out of the blue. It would be very likely that the name was ...taken already. 'no name' claim is only thing that makes sense.

Only other possibility is that the GM left out one leader from the game and instead gave this name as a safe identity to the evil alien. But I assumed that Bigger wanted all his 14 childhood friends in the game, so instead gave the alien a safe noname claim. Like in FFH game 'you know there is not a thinker in the game'.

Well to sum up I think it is a lot more likely that the alien is one of the nameless. This might be useful for name-scrying, or to keep in mind in the endgame. Mabye there is only one nameless left alive, and then you might lynch him if evil alien is still hidden.
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Selrahc Wrote:What I find really interesting in the Tasunke vote is that the name is clearly a key feature. In retrospect it really looks to me like he suspects Tasunke of being Marr. He then moves off Tasunke as it becomes clear that he isn't Marr, because Marr probably doesn't have a mason like private forum connection. No interest in the lynch beyond killing his rival? Now that looks like typical lyncher or feuder behaviour.

OR I simply realized as I watch Tasunke flail around that he was simply a villager. But yes I did press Tasunke in the beginning because of the information I had. It became clear that not only he wasn't Marr but he wasn't a NAP. Are you suggesting that I should have continued to go after him even if I realized he wasn't Marr? I mean your whole argument here is a fraud.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt earlier but this is patently ridiculous.

Selrahc Wrote:I think Lewwyn had a fake name and has chosen not to use it. Marr clearly has been provided with a fake name/role, since he is currently hiding from us with it. If Bigger's statement was true, then Marr's name would also not be an indicator of alignment, and Marr's player would have come clean with their own name without any easy fake to use or obvious reason to use it.

A) I don't have a name and B) I think its very possible that Marr was not given a name but knows he can simply claim to be nameless. Very possible that they only claimed after I revealed this night.

I was attempting through Day 1 to have people give up their names of their own accord so Marr might implicate themselves. Then this night I knew I wasn't getting traction on getting names and that my activities could have been suspicious to the NAPpers so I revealed just in case.

Selrahc. Its weird how earlier you said that you weren't pressing to lynch me but that my claim could not stand? Pretty contradictory. This is reminding me of that game where you were a wolf with slowcheetah. Forget which WW it was.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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Bobchillingworth Wrote:Why focus specifically on people who have claimed to not be one of the main leaders as fakes, when Bigger said in the setup that there would be generic individuals involved?

Bed soon, so to be crystal clear -
I am not a leader, so I know there are generic individuals.

I just think ONE of them is a fake, who will be found out by a name-scan and possibly by a mass nameless role claim.

(I do not think nameless should role claim now, too likely that an hidden identity has been provided)
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Responses:

Molach Wrote:But either the missing alien is Zakalwe or thestick, or the alien is one of the 5 (Jkaen, Waterbat, Sareln, Molach, Selrahc) who fake-claimed no name prior to Lewwyns statement.

I don't like how you imply that the 5 who claimed 'no name' before Lewwyn's call were faking it. Also, I don't like how you imply that all the named people are telling the truth. Bigger might have provided someone with a fake name, you never know. (Crossposted with 472)

(After 472) I don't think you can make the assumption that all 14 faction leaders are in the game.

Molach Wrote:But I assumed that Bigger wanted all his 14 childhood friends in the game, so instead gave the alien a safe noname claim. Like in FFH game 'you know there is not a thinker in the game'.

Again, I don't like this assumption that all 14 faction leaders are telling the truth.

On a slight tangent, I hate how we nameless are being discriminated against. All the faction leaders are truth-tellers and those who posted nameless before Lewwyn's call are lying?

Serdoa Wrote:Yes, basically what I believe is simple: Lewwyns counterpart is a wolf. And that wolf is novice. Do I have any more then the above? No, because novice didn't state much on Day 1 and already stated that he won't be around much Day 2. But do I have any better leads? No, none. Everything else seems for me right now even less likely to hit a wolf. Therefore I'll rather take chances on someone I atleast believe has higher then average chances to be a wolf.

So you think that because novice asked if aliens exist, he's looking for an alien, therefore he's Judaa and needs Lewwyn dead?

Bobchillingworth Wrote:I'm also somewhat surprised that nobody seems to care that thestick insinuated during the night phase that Wolves were trying to save him. Maybe just bad phrasing or an ill-conceived train of thought on his part, but I'm suspicious of him.

If you're talking about 'being suspicious of Tasunke voters,' it just seemed like a safe place for a wolf to park a vote. Then again, villagers too...

Molach Wrote:Marr has claimed no name (in my opinion beyond reasonable doubt).

I doubt it! Marr could have claimed to be one of the faction leaders and either prayed that the person they were impersonating wasn't there, or Bigger told them 'XXX was not on the Unity, and is not in the game.'

Okay, back to wolves, not aliens. Observations:
-Unchanged: Mattimeo, Lewwyn
-Selrahc is posting way too many metagaming thoughts. Here's what I interpret his line of reasoning to be: 'Lewwyn is an alien. Aliens in SMAC can not be trusted. Therefore, Lewwyn can not be trusted.'
-Brick hasn't posted much today, one post badgering Lewwyn on timing and another saying he's out with family.
-Pindicator seems to not believe in all this alien stuff, and is voting for Selrahc because of it. I can't really follow his thoughts, for some reason.
-zakalwe seems to be doing a 'question suspicious posts, then ask for confirmation' style of playing.

I'll go back and look for wolf-tells, scummy posts, and anything that 'feels' wrong later.

(Crosspost with 473 and 474)
More people have been to Berlin than I have.
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Lewwyn Wrote:A) I don't have a name

Lewwyn Wrote:7. Lewwyn - Lular H’minee

Lewwyn
More people have been to Berlin than I have.
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thestick, Lewwyn is pretty clearly referring to a fake name. He is saying that he didn't receive a fake name.
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Sorry... thought I had something and thought too quickly. Unvote
More people have been to Berlin than I have.
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Selrahc Wrote:thestick, Lewwyn is pretty clearly referring to a fake name. He is saying that he didn't receive a fake name.

truth
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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Also thestick, I think we have 3 NAP members among the named people.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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