CHAOS Realm

[Nelphine]

I'd be inclined to have bats at 10 but I think all rares should be at least 10. If other realms also have less than 10 that's probably fine.

[Seravy]

Storm Giants and Gorgons are 9. Wraiths are 8.

[Nelphine]

Wraiths should move up 1 clearly. But if they're actually working fine as is, then 9 should be fine for doombats.

[teelaurila]

Wraiths do have notable immunities to common resistance-hitting effects, so weakness to the effects that do affect them makes sense. (compared to other rares)

[Seravy]

Idea : What if Warp Creature gained the following additional ability - "Nonhero normal units cannot save against this spell."?

[Nelphine]

I'm assuming that's along the lines of 'give chaos something direct to use against buffed city troops?'

My first thought was 'that's super overpowered against all other city troops, particularly all AI city troops'. However, my second thought was 'but those troops are already largely meaningless anyway, so this spell still wouldn't be used against them'.

But, I don't particularly like something that's auto-fail - it defeats the purpose of having high end resist units. The -5 penalty is already huge. I'd rather, IF I am correct that its for targetting buffed units, add an additional effect 'target unit takes 1 damage for every spell currently affecting it, including all unit buffs and debuffsm but not including combat or overland globals' and this additional effect doesn't have a save.

[Seravy]

It's not just the buffing, more like what you say "but it's not worth using this on normal units anyway". Not with a save roll anyway, but if it's 100% then it's not so bad. You either get halved attack, or halved defense, both of which are still worse than shatter, or 0 resistance which allows using shatter next turn. So it's specifically only useful in the early game where shatter has a too low chance to work, or against buffed normal units. (If that helps, raising cost to 12 might make it more fair.)
The only downside I see to this change is it makes Weakness look bad although...weakness is at least guaranteed to be -3 attack which on proper targets is about as good as shatter for less MP. This on the other hand mind do armor or resistance which are not that great.

The primary reason is we agreed Chaos is the bottom realm so anything that makes their weak spells pack more punch can help (since Chaos is definitely about raw power, not countering specific things).

On the other hand Chaos is actually one of the very few things where life buffed units actually work, so idk. Nagas and Ghouls eat them alive due to poison, and Phantoms ignore armor, so sorcery and death already counter them. Nature has spiders which...also counter them. So for super early life buffing, chaos is actually one of the two good targets.

Maybe best to leave this as is.

[Bahgtru]

Warp creature is already the best chaos common. Warp until resistance 0 -> life drain, warp -> black sleep+ghouls, you get the idea.

[Seravy]

I wonder, did we have any specific reason to keep the "damages own units" property on Wall of Fire? We've removed it from pretty much everything else, and like all the others, this also causes the AI to kill its own units sometimes.

[Nelphine]

My guess is so that a human can't move in and out in order to have the AI melee unit chase them in and out, and therefore have the wall kill everything even if the human unit is terrible (troll units come to mind, but even just have mass spearmen, so that you can lure the AI around).

I personally think we should keep it. If it's a problem, reduce the cost and maintenance of the spell.