RB Pitboss #1 [SPOILERS] Willem of Persia

[shadyforce]

Bollox!


Turn 50:
Chef finished the pasture and starts roading the horse.
The Factory completes Haley the Archer (a turn early because of completing the pasture) and starts a Worker, due in 6.
Haley will head off towards India to reveal some fog beffore returning home.
Central Command will grow and finish the Archer next turn.

I wonder should I declare war on ZPV so that Magellan's Folly can continue exploring? I understand that this will potentially reduce the value of trade routes with Carthage. Carthage and Mali will be my most important early trading partners since I'll have trade connections in 2 turns when Sailing comes in and we'll have trade routes as soon as we can open borders.

Update: ZPV gets writing next turn. That's convenient. So in 2 turns, I'll have 2 international trade routes instead of domestic. A nice little GNP boost. It is a little worrying that I'm so far off Pottery and Writing, but I said I'd focus on early expansion ahead of early economy and I think expanding quickly and going for the GLH will give me long term benefits.

[shadyforce]

I'm considering moving the GLH timetable forward by skipping the Settler out of Contral Command. I'm concerned that the GLH will be seen as attractive on this map, plus there are 10 other civs so a few could go for it. Someone who absolutely goes gung ho for it will beat me to it but otherwise, I think I'm in decent shape.

Pros:
GLH earlier, around T74 or T75
Shields into Immortal (will be half built - because Sailing comes in a turn too late)
Around 8-10 coins per turn of extra trade routes for 5/6 turns.

Cons:
Settler delayed around 22(!) turns

Decisions...

[Sullla]

Haha, that picture is hilarious!

[shadyforce]

Turn 52:
- Chef finished connecting the horse and has moved onto the forest/hill south of The Factory. Baker is still chop/mining.
- Central Command has produced Tell the Archer and has started a Settler, due in 8 turns with a chop. I've decided that 22 turns of city growth and production is worth more than GLH 8 turns earlier. I don't need it that badly. But I'll still be a bit sick if I miss it by less than 8 turns.
- The Factory is still on a Worker due in 5 and Chef's chop will mostly overflow into a Settler.
- Belkar reveals some foggy tiles on the coast between myself and Carthage. (I'll post a screeny when it is all revealed.)
- Justin Specting is continuing to explore to the north and has bumped into Carthiginian and Indian warriors. ZPV was online and saw my scout as I bumped into him and he was kind enough to give me specific directions to meet Spain.
- Sailing is in and I'm putting a turn on 0% science before resuming research on Masonry. I doube this will do anything for efficiency since I have no libraries but I'm not technology limited at the moment.

ZPV was also kind enough to open borders with me so Magellan's Folly can continue his voyage into seas unknown. Here is a look into Carthage:


What a massive city, and he has 2 cities and 2 workers as well... seriously, what am I doing wrong? How do people grow so quickly? Grr. I assume he's above the happy cap so I wonder if he's planning a quadruple whip of something.

Anyway, here's my demographics:


I'm actually rather pleased with them. I'm above average in everything except population. Also note my Export/Import rate. My open borders with Carthage and Sailing means I get a 2 coin trade route in each of my cities. A nice little GNP boost.

[RefSteel]

What a massive city, and he has 2 cities and 2 workers as well... seriously, what am I doing wrong? How do people grow so quickly?

Hard to know for sure, as there may be different contributing factors, but recall:

This is my start: It's ok but not great. My main problem is that I have the wrong starting techs for it. 6 turns of Fishing before I can start on the workboat.

I don't know if it's applicable in this case or not (keeping track of 11 different civs associated with almost 40 different names leaves me uncertain about what happened to which) but I'd imagine that people whose starts and initial techs happened to line up nicely might have gotten a bit of a head start. It should probably more or less even out as the game progresses (I would think).

[Swiss Pauli]

Carthage is CHM, so he get two extra

[shadyforce]

@Swiss Pauli: Thanks! I forgot about that.

@RefSteel: I'm hoping that is what slows me down, combined with other people having Expansionist/Imperialistic speeding them up. Interestingly enough, regoarrarr feels the same way:

Hey Shadyforce!

Thought I would drop you a line - seems like we haven't spoken in awhile. Well, in real life terms it has probably only been a couple of days, but in game terms it's probably been like 1000 years :-D

Anything new going on? Not a whole lot here - I'm sure your C&D department noticed that a few civs founded their 3rd city. I thought that I was ahead of the curve in founding my 2nd city but I appear to be dropping back in my expansion. Of course it's always going to be hard to keep up with Exp / Imp Krill....

One other weird thing that I noticed is that I now seem to have -4 in exports / imports, which seems to imply that someone now has trade routes with me - is it you?

Oh another thing - Imhotep sent me a mail a few days ago saying that he had met ruff_hi and he was marching down towards your lands. Have you made contact with him yet?

Talk to you later

dan.
regoarrarr
India
--------------------
Hi Dan,

Good to hear from you. I was thinking the same thing, that we hadn't chatted in a while. What must that Indian fella be scheming, I was thinking to myself.

I have noticed a border of your second city which is quite a bit further east than where you told me the copper was. Is that actually your third city (I remember ruling that out yesterday in the game but can't remember exactly how!) or did you change the location of your second city at the last minute, or was I mistaken as to the location of your copper? (8 tiles south-west of your city was where you said it was, if my memory serves me correctly)

Yes, I have met Ruff's warrior. So all the people I have now met are: yourself, Imhotep, ZPV, Dsplaisted/FDS, Team Lin and Ruff. Just Sunrise, MH/Kodii, Krill/Memphus and Broker left. How are you doing in this regard?

I can't be the cause of your negative export ratio. We don't have open borders and besides even if we did I don't think we have a trade connection. Someone with whom you have open borders has a trade connection to you but not vice versa (they probably have sailing and you not, or they have scouted the coast and you have a few fogged tiles blocking the route) or something like that. Any theories as to who?

Are you the one with Writing? If so, we should check whether we have a trade connection because maybe we can get trade routes off each other.

My amateur C&D department quickly becomes redundant as the game gets more complicated. More complicated as defined by when they have more than 1 city to track. But yes I have noticed how quickly others have been expanding. I think you're 2nd city was actually par rather than ahead and I was a few turns behind with my second city, and I'm still behind now. It is a little depressing, I try to assure myself it was just a rubbish start or something but maybe I just suck at this game.

Brian
(shadyforce of Persia)
--------------------
Brian,

Yup I am a schemer. Unfortunately not a very good schemer....

I only have 2 cities so it must have been the 2nd one. I just pulled up a map and it is 8 tiles SW of my capital, in a manner of speaking. You may remember that it was you who clued me in that you can not just add the tiles N-S and tiles E-W to get the actual distance. It is 6 tiles S and 2 tiles W, or 2W of my 2nd city.

So have you directed (or can you direct) ruff my way? I have met everyone but dsplaisted, ruff and m_h/kodii. Broker and Krill are both to the west (SW and NW i think) of sunrise / team lin.

I believe that you don't need OB to have trade routes, if you have a trade connection. There is a river to the SE of my 2nd city. If that river goes to your borders, and if it empties into East Fork Lake, and if you have Sailing, and if you have de-fogged the whole river, then I think you would get trade routes with me. I do not have Writing.

dan.
regoarrarr
India
--------------------
... and we talk a bit more clearing up the open borders for trade routes thing.

When he announced someone else had trade routes with him I was scared because it means someone else has sailing and could well be going for the GLH. But cast your eyes back to the demographic screen a few posts back. The Export/Import stats still stand. Unless I am badly reading this, I am exporting goods worth 4 gold, and no one else is making a profit from exports/imports.

Another point of minor interest is that Team Lin has declared war on Spain. Apparently, it was a phony war to attempt contact with India through tiles that were culturally blocked off. Quite disappointing. Where is the bloodshed!

Update: Dan now believes he misread the Exports/Imports value. Maybe he was mistaken, maybe he was fishing for information.

[shadyforce]

In conversation with Carthage, it turns out that he will have Sailing in 3 or 4 turns. I have also seen most of the Carthage BFC and have noticed him roading forest hills around the city. Could this mean he is planning to build the GLH? This time I am worried:


A formidable capital. Lighthouse + GLH costs a combined 260 hammers. Assuming Carthage gets Sailing in 3 turns then with a theoretical maximum of 120 hammers in chops + around 17 hammers per turn for 9 turns + 3 research turns = So GLH on turn 65. In reality 4 chops and an average of 15 hammers per turn is more likely. That gives GLH in 15 turns on turn 68.

I do believe that with my cities growth and production rate and 5 chops including the one Baker is currently on and which requires at least Chef and maybe the new worker too, I get the GLH on turn 69.

I've switched to Lighthouse right away but I'll have to see if I can speed it up or maybe ZPV will build slower than I expect. Plan C is to dial up ZPV, tell him that I'm well on my way to the GLH (since he knows I had Sailing earlier) and hope he decides against competing with me.

[shadyforce]

Ok, I'm going to butcher my early growth and I think I can squeeze the GLH out on T67. Will post details tomorrow.

[shadyforce]

Magellan's Folly finds the south edge of the map:


ZPV increased his score by 7 on the turn before last. That must be 5 for land 20 turns of new land and 2 for founding the third city whose settler I met on my voyages (city #3 is just south-east of his oher 2 cities - you can see its culture in the above screenshot).

ZPV does not yet have Sailing, but someone else does and what's more, it appears that they are connected to ZPV as well since there are only 2 of us on +4 export ratio and someone (ZPV surely?) has -8.

I am not going to yet ask him who else he has open borders with just in case he picks up that I really want to know who has Sailing. Unfortunately, my next screen will show that he has a workboat sailing through my waters near my city so he can see me chop/mining that forest.

Anyway, here is an overview shot of my cities, nearby city sites and the plan for the Great Lighthouse:


T56:
Baker starts chop+mine on tile A.
Chef and Blacksmith move onto the tiles shown.

T57:
Chef moves 1N
Blacksmith moves tile B

T58:
Chef moves onto tile B
Blacksmith moves onto tile C
Masonry comes in. Switch research to Pottery.

T59:
Chef starts chop
Blacksmith starts chop
Central command grows and is configured to work the 2 mined hills, the Ivory and the Fish.

T60
Central Command completes the Lighthouse. Start Great Lighthouse.

T61
N/A
[2 chops complete]

T62
Chef moves onto tile D
Blacksmith moves onto tile E
Central Command reconfigured to work the 3 mines and the Ivory tile (until GLH is complete).
[1 chop+mine complete]

T63
Baker moves back to The Factory's half-mined tile (2 south of the city)
Chef starts chop
Blacksmith starts chop

T64
N/A

T65
[2 chops complete]

T66
Chef+Blacksmith go build roads or something
GLH is on 171/200 hammers. Apply the whip (It's brutal to kill 2 citizens working mined grass/hills but my projection says I have to to beat ZPV - I could change this if I see his Lighthouse is later than expected or he is not chopping those forests, but I'm still worried about that other player who now has Sailing).

T67 Central Command completes The Great Lighthouse!!! (Hopefully)