[Spoilers] darrelljs (FDR)

[darrelljs]

Okay, that was a draft post from yesterday...I've signed the deal with Ruff and learned some interesting things. More to come very soon .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Okay, so first confession time . This:

The problem is Yaz. He's got troops lying around and by his own admission no room to expand into.

Was not part of my first draft. I originally compared the advantages of attacking France vs. Persia, and the conclusion was Persia but for a different reason (call me stoopid, but I don't see conflict with France as inevitable). I was leaning against signing the deal with Japan as drafted, since we were dividing Persia but due to their long term NAP I'd be doing all the heavy lifting. I let Japan know this, and hints were dropped that Persia might be up to something.

The real problem with me and MP is that I just don't spend enough time in my opponent's shoes. You saw it in PB2, you see it now. Thinking about some of the things Persia had said (the above quote is accurate), it became apparent that my Warrior guarded cities (especially the high food capital with The Great Lighthouse) were tasty treats for someone with an army lying around and nothing to do with it. I'd been so fixated on building an army of aggression, I didn't contemplate the need to defend . So I signed the deal with Japan.

Persia shared information with Japan on the agreement that it would not be passed to America, so I actually have no facts whatsoever. However, I have "guessed" several things that I strongly believe to be accurate. Let it be known that Japan honored the letter of her agreement with Persia. The spirit? That is for others to judge, but since Ruff is role playing WW2 Japan it may be apropos .

Here is my map of the pertinent areas, there are several features I intend to cover, so bear with me for this Sullaesque post.



Okay, first thing to discuss is my dotmap. I have the high food capital, which has loaned Corn over to a fairly weak city that picks up both Copper and Horse. While none of my northern or western sites have seafood, the east has three Fish tiles. I have founded one of those already, it will pick up a pair of desert Incense and a Floodplains. The northern Fish/Incense city will have to wait, but you can see the sign for it. I have two Settlers just underway to the southern island, where I will plant two cities (and reap the +100% intercontinental trade route bonus ). The northern one has Fish, the southern one has Crab. Back on the mainland, the northern rice will eventually get settled (I haven't placed a sign for it because the site is just awful). Krill and I have a border arrangement that allows one more city to the west to grab Corn/Sugar and a ton of Jungle. So the tally is three cities founded, two more in 5 and 7 turns, and two more with no hard ETA. That is seven total, with an eighth site contested by Persia.

Notice my lack of roads? You may recall that I beelined Masonry and Sailing to get The Great Lighthouse out quickly. I then researched Polytheism and am now on Monotheism (due in 3, but I don't have the cash to finish it). This has been my plan all along of course, half cost Forges and OR to give me a 50% production boost. Lots of cities paid for by The Great Lighthouse. Massive production edge. Death to my enemies. That kind of thing. During initial discussions with Persia on the "disputed" three tile island between our civs, I sent a screenshot of the area since they had yet to explore the area (or had they?). Persia noticed my lack of roads.

Now, after Monotheism, the plan has always been to go The Wheel/Pottery. I won't have those techs in time to connect my Copper, however, I will have defogged a route to Japan and will therefore be able to borrow their Copper. But where's the fun in that? Using Normal speed numbers (things scale), a Galley costs 50 hammers. Immortals and Axemen cost 35 hammers each. What I want to do is sink his fleet and all the nasty things in it 8). If I build 7 Galleys and lose 3 to take out 4, I come out ahead by 305 - 150 = 155 Hammers. The advantage goes down if he sends less boats, or the boats aren't full, but unless the RNG gods are beyond angry I always come out ahead . This approach means that one of my Settlers will have to detour to the northern city, for logistical reasons.

Last turn Persia sent what at the time seemed an odd but harmless request: that I offer peace on my turn. Specifically my turn, not theirs. I'm using that to set an invasion ETA of 10 turns, by which time the enforced 10 turns of peace will have expired. I am not 100% sure they understand the mechanics of enforced peace treaties in PBEM (I certainly did not), however extensive testing has shown that the treaty ends on turn roll-over. Who offered or accepted peace has nothing to do with it. I was pretty concerned they were attempting to get the rights to cancel the treaty and attack me on their turn. If they stopped their armada on the blue dot north of the orange "B", they would have been unsinkable . Since I go first in the turn order, I retain the right to attack first.

Of course, they could always land their troops on the Rice tile and march south. Grabbing peace would allow them to drop their units off one at a time while I watch helplessly. If that is the case, I'll simply have to defog my path to Ruff, and chop out some Axes (or Spears if I can trade for Hunting). I suppose I could settle the lousy Rice city to prevent this, but that's one risk I plan on taking. If I were them I'd want to maintain the element of surprise for as long as possible, and that means sailing out of the dark a few turns before the peace treaty expires.

Assuming that, we have the northern passage or the southern passage. Southern is shorter, and if I only have a few Warriors in place they can one move attack (albeit from across a river) with Immortals, or slow move on the Grassland Mine and attack the following turn. In theory, I would not see them until one turn before the landing. The northern passage is longer, and gives me more more time to react. I see no advantage in coming from that direction. If the southern passage is the one, I need to determine if they'll be in phase with the blue dots or the orange dots. Orange dot might seem the best, but if I stage a counter force on the "B", blue dot is superior since it would allow him to spot my force and retreat. I'll be honest I just started thinking about this, and don't have a solid plan yet. I just wanted to post what is going on, since it got very interesting . More to come as I figure out how to best react!

Darrell

P.S. Oh...one last note. By the terms of my treaty with Japan, I can settle along the red bar, meaning I could grab a Cows/Spice city or a Cows/Rice city. That's getting pretty far ahead, but its something to keep in mind.

[T-hawk]

Great reading material. Lurkers can't comment on most of that but keep it coming.

The Wheel/Pottery. I won't have those techs in time to connect my Copper, however, I will have defogged a route to Japan and will therefore be able to borrow their Copper.

I do find it amusing that the game mechanics can make it easier to buy copper from thousands of miles away than to use your own copper right in the ground right there.

[darrelljs]

After noodling it over, I decided to bring up the topic of Yaz's coming attack with Krill. Krill tends to be fairly active on the diplomatic front, and I'd rather he find out from me than Yaz. The other thing is Krill can feed Yaz false information and/or find out more details on Yaz's plans. He thought we might get into a 4v2 situation in the near future; of course I'm prohibited by one of the innumerable articles of my treaty with Ruff from disclosing the impossibility of that. At some point I might want to ask Ruff for the right to disclose the treaty to Krill. No doubt he'll call me an idiot if/when he finds out .

I did agree not to be part of an anti-Krill alliance, and he did likewise. That obviously benefits him more due to my deal with Ruff, but in the end...I don't want to be part of anti-Krill alliance. First off, I enjoy watching him play, but more importantly dog-piles are utter B.S. . IMO .

We also discussed the bomb shell that Dreylin dropped in the public player's thread . Krill and I independently concluded that the best way to leverage it is deep tech beelines. We are inching towards much closer cooperation on teching, which IS allowed by Ruff's treaty. I think. I floated the idea of the CS/Machinery bulb plan. With a fast Forge he should be able to get Machinery fairly soon. He didn't seem enthused, but I do see us perhaps working on Liberalism together. Of course, I'll want Astronomy and he won't, but really I should be focusing on more near term issues, shouldn't I ?

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Okay, I still haven't fully worked out the tactics yet but I'll show the micro I did last turn to get things rolling.

Washington
On the down side, Washington just whipped a Settler and the overflow went into a Warrior which completed this turn. On the plus side she'll be pulling down 10H/turn starting next turn which is enough to build a Galley every 3 turns. Note that the forest to the east of the Pigs has a Worker that will start chopping next turn. That chop will go to the city of Atlanta, founded in two turns.



New York
New York just finished a Warrior with sizeable overflow. I've held off building a Monument here since the I want to found Judaism in this city, and I let the previous Settler complete without whipping to allow a quick whip of a Missionary. And before you say anything, I know that you can't control where the religion falls, but my highest population non-capital city had the best odds, and Boston had a special in the outer ring of the BFC. Anyway, what that means is I need exactly 12H of overflow. A whip is 20H and a Galley is 33H, so if I have 13H or more its a single pop whip. That means working sub-optimal tiles this turn.



Boston
Boston whipped a Monument a few turns ago. The overflow went into a half cost Lighthouse, which is 3 turns from completion. When my border pops, I can immediately work a Fish tile (work boat is in place). I chose to leave the Lighthouse in queue, since I want to two pop whip a Galley, then chop complete a second. That will take more turns than 10 so Boston is unlikely to contribute to operation Salamis if my ETA guestimate is correct.

Darrell

[novice]

What is your deal with Ruff?

[darrelljs]

Sorry! I assumed he posted it in all its many claused glory in his thread . It's really quite clever:

Japan and America:

PREAMBLE
Desiring to strengthen the bonds of peace and friendship traditionally existing between them
To uphold the principles of growth and development, complete leader control and the supremacy of play by email games,
Desiring further to encourage closer economic cooperation between them and to promote conditions of economic stability and growth in their civilizations,
Reaffirming their faith in the purposes and principles of Civilization IV, and their desire to subjugate and control all peoples,
Recognizing that they have the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense as affirmed by The Combat System,
Considering that they have a common concern in the maintenance of international misunderstanding and confusion (non-Party members only),
Having resolved to conclude a treaty of mutual cooperation and security,
Therefore agree as follows:

ARTICLE I
The Parties stipulate that news, knowledge, acknowledgment of this treaty will not be communicated by any means with any other player, ever (except to the other Party).

ARTICLE II
Both Parties agree that there will be no active military action between the two parties during the course of the treaty. However, phony war declarations are allowable to support ARTICLE I providing the other party is notified prior to the declaration.

ARTICLE III
Both Parties accept that America has right of first refusal on all tiles west of Persia's current capital, subject to ARTICLE V. As such, it is America's responsibility to remove any foreign infestation on said area. Japan will readily provide information and logistic support as available. Any Japanese military involvement in the area described above is at the sole discretion of Japan.

ARTICLE IV
Both Parties accept that Japan has right of first refusal on all tiles east of Persia's current capital, subject to ARTICLE V. As such, it is Japan's responsibility to remove any foreign infestation on said area. America will readily provide information and logistic support as available. Any American military involvement in the area described above is at the sole discretion of America.

ARTICLE V
Both Parties accept that the subdivide between east and west will be jointly determined when such map knowledge available to both parties enables them to equitably agree to such a sub-division.

ARTICLE VI
Both Parties agree that, subject to ARTICLE VII and ARTICLE VIII, both parties will work together as much as possible regarding technology and resource trades. Ideally, the other party will be the preferred trading partner.

ARTICLE VII
Both Parties accept that any and all technology trades will be at the full discretion of the Party involved in such. The other Party will have no veto rights regarding self researched (or otherwise obtained) technologies.

ARTICLE VIII
Both Parties accept that any and all resource trades will be at the full discretion of the Party involved in such. The other Party will have no veto rights regarding such trades.

ARTICLE IX
Both Parties have complete discretion regarding the sharing of information with the other Party, except where ARTICLE X is involved.

ARTICLE X
Both Parties are required to share information with the other Party where that information impacts on the security concerns of the other Party.

ARTICLE XI
This Treaty shall remain in force until it is the opinion of both Parties that the treaty is no longer required, in which case the Treaty shall terminate 15 turns after such agreement has been reached

In witness whereof the undersigned have signed this Treaty.
Luff_Hi of Japan
The New Dealer of America

Ratified on this turn (turn to be filled in here).

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Treaty_of_...of_America

[darrelljs]

Okay, better late than never, right? Let's dive right into the cities :

Washington
Net income from trade routes: 2.6 commerce. Three grassland mines. A sick +15 food surplus at size three. I've got some plans for Washington. My two national wonders will without a doubt be The Globe and The Heroic Epic. With a little effort I can whip a Destroyer every other turn AND have enough excess food to share the Corn over to New York more than half the time . In the near term, I need to spread Judaism here, then a Granary and Forge.



New York
Net income from trade routes: 1.6 commerce. Not my favorite city, but there are worse. She'll keep the Corn at least until major infrastructure is in place. She already has Judaism, which is nice. I'll probably spend most of this citiy's production on Settlers, Workers and Missionaries (after getting the Granary and Forge of course).



Boston
Net income from trade routes: 0.9 commerce. I'd complain that the one city I built a Monument ends up as the Jewish holy city, but the fact that I got three free spreads would make me seem really, really ungrateful . I think I'll farm the floodplains and grassland tile (after Civil Service) and make this city a whip unit pump. Short term I want to bang out the obligatory Granary and Forge, but I will get Temple out as soon as I have Priesthood for the Shrine. Dunno about those Incense tiles, doubt I'll work them until Sid's.



Philly
Net income from trade routes: 1.75 commerce. Another city with a free Judaism spread. There is a Fish on an ocean tile that you can't see, but that Fish will allow me to work a cottage on all 4 river tiles, plus the grassland tile, and the Incense. Commerce city, due to the river. I'll only have +3F with all those tiles worked, so I need to be very smart on how I use the Incense tile and the whip.



Atlanta
Net income from trade routes: 2.35 commerce. My birth town . Yet another city with a free Judaism spread. Pretty lousy site except for those great intercontinental trade routes . There is a coastal Fish...I think I'll probably just cottage everything after whipping critical infrastructure in place.



Military
Okay, I'm now up to 8 Galleys and this just in: Yaz doesn't want to attack anymore . Those Galleys aren't cheap dang it. Its possible Yaz is blowing smoke to catch me off guard, but if he really trades Ruff an Immortal/Axe/Galley for two Workers, I'll be able to relax. You can see from the mini-map that I've gone as far as I can to the west. That's...bad. I was hoping to get Magellan's sooner rather than later. My eastern scout boat is now around the large peninsula south of Japan and heading east. If Dreylin has access to our latitudes via some islands to the south, he's got circumnavigation in the bag.



Finances
Okay, so from the city totals, after paying for city upkeep, I have a total of 9.2 free commerce left over just from trade routes. Unit cost is 3, and civics cost is 0, so I am netting 6.2 commerce WITHOUT WORKING A SINGLE TILE . Once I get Writing and open borders, I'll defog multiple cities in a few turns and be getting even more sick commerce from The Great Lighthouse. Sick sick sick.



Tech
I'm saving gold right now waiting to do a Mathematics push once Square Leg trades me Writing. After that I plan on going for Compass next, for the obvious reason: Harbors. They not only boost the value of my existing trade routes, they make my cities more attractive for those oh so lucrative foreign trade routes. I still plan on bulbing Civil Service with my Great Merchant; now that war with Yaz looks unlikely I can count on Monarchy from him. After that it is Machinery -> Optics. Lots of key techs missing here (Calendar, Construction, Currency, Drama) which I hope to arrange trades for.

Diplomacy
Friendly with Ruff. Pleased bordering Friendly with Krill, we have an open ended NAP with a 13t cooldown. Cautious bordering Annoyed with Yaz. Pleased with Square Leg. Cautious with Dreylin.

Final Observations
Left alone, I'll grow vertical and expand peacefully to eight cities. If Yaz attacks and I sink his navy, I'll gear for instant war and take him down before he gets his feet back under him.

I'd also like to take a second to point out how the oft maligned Roosevelt is working out this game. ORG gives me half cost Lighthouse and Courthouse, huge on this map. Not to mention Factories. The cheap civics costs haven't come into play yet but as I revolt to OR and grow my population it will. Remember, I have a passive commerce approach to this game. ORG is a passive way to reduce expenses (active for half cost Courthouses). IND has already helped me land The Great Lighthouse with minimal risk, and its about to get me half cost Forges! That's incredibly huge on a map like this. The amount of infrastructure I'll have whipped in by the turn 100 update will be staggering.

Err...that or I'll be dead .

Darrell

[regoarrarr]

Stellar update and non-threadspamming post! (Unlike this one, which is a TSP of course)

[scooter]

Thanks for the update! I really like the style...