New and improved Lurker thread - Now taking bribes :]

[Mist]

It is a pretty good list but there are things that stand out:

Faeryl Arc/Rai Kurio

Raider centaurs could be devastating.

A lot of leaders have little to no use with Kurios. Raider centaurs will not be as deadly without support from collateral mages, and no financial/adaptive means these will take that much longer. We could give them Cassiel I guess, but that's just rehashing PB's game with faster great person spawns.

Alexis Agg/Org Amurite

Fine - nice early prop in agg and late game org will be useful.

Alexis is Agg/Phi But yes, not squishy early and nice bulbing/golden age prop along the way.

Tasunke Agg/Rai Svart

Agg Raider sinister hunters are actually pretty dangerous. Especially with elven forest movement...

Hunters suck at attacking cities ( -50% ) and there will be *very* few forests on the map outside immediate elven starting area.

and Tasunke is pretty much saying "you're officially a rush civ now".

I think that's a bit of an overreach, but this is a fuzzy area and I can see that different people will read this combo in different ways. Sabby/Falamar are squishy, Alexis is taken, Barbarian on Sheeba is too much of a gimp... I'm officially out of ideas Maybe let's just give them Flauros and be done with it?

[Mardoc]

I think that's a bit of an overreach, but this is a fuzzy area and I can see that different people will read this combo in different ways. Sabby/Falamar are squishy, Alexis is taken, Barbarian on Sheeba is too much of a gimp... I'm officially out of ideas Maybe let's just give them Flauros and be done with it?

Suppose we give the Svarts Einion? Defender, while mostly poor, would help with surviving the early game. Philo is quite nice, however, and might make up for it. Or if you want to leave them Raiders without making them rushers, Amelanchier might also work.

[Mist]

Meh. Let's just have two Alexis in the game and unique leaders be damned. She fits Svarts as well as she does Amurites.

[Amelia]

Erm, i'll put my vote for Arendel actually. Creative gives that early game power (more border expansions = safety), while Svarts needs spiritual to switch between Esus / FoL as required. (And who knows, maybe other religions).

Sure, it's the only Spiritual in the game, but i think it's worth it to add more variety.

[Mardoc]

Hunters suck at attacking cities ( -50% ) and there will be *very* few forests on the map outside immediate elven starting area.

Not that it really matters, they're still not really suited for city conquest, but a nitpick - Hunters only get -20% vs. cities. It makes a Sinister hunter almost have odds vs a non-bronze warrior , at merely twice the price.

Meh. Let's just have two Alexis in the game and unique leaders be damned. She fits Svarts as well as she does Amurites.

You're probably right. Better to give the appropriate traits and sacrifice lore - it's not like the lore makes any sense once you've gone unrestricted, anyway.

Amelia - I can see your point, but I'm worried Arendel would be actually too good. It's not like the elven economy is weak, and Spiritual is really good.

[Mist]

I'm not actually sure how would Arendel/Svarts play out. Too good? Probably not, she's not a top trier in restricted and Ljos are stronger than Svarts. Weak enough to consider Varn/Svarts ( who is something of an Arendel 2.0 )? No idea, maybe not. It's worth considering. Anyone willing to provide a fourth opinion?

[Azoth]

Anyone willing to provide a fourth opinion?

Well, since you ask, here is what I think:

1. Thessa (Arc/Exp) of the Kuriotates
Kuriotates need Expansive to build their 3-4 metropolises quickly, to have enough health to match the extra happiness from Sprawling, and to make settlement spam a worthwhile proposition.
This also neatly sidesteps the issue of Raiders Centaurs.

2. Perpentach (Arc/Cha/Cre/Ins) of the Sheaim
Looks good, though I worry that none of the other players will be able to handle a dedicated Pyre Zombie rush.

3. Alexis (Agg/Phi) of the Amurites
A solid combination.

4. Sabathiel (Chm/Org) of the Svaltalfar
Sabathiel offers two decent flexible traits. Arendel of the Svaltalfar would be almost indistinguishable from Arendel of the Ljosolfar.
And I think Aggressive is too strong for the Svaltalfar: Aggressive Sinister Hunters are strong and they can immediately take Subdue Animal.

5. Falamar (Cha/Exp) of the Sidar
I really don't like Grigori gameplay. They can leverage their Adventurers for an early game rush or a late game blitz; but even with Adaptive, they can't take Summoner, so the early game rush is best.
The Sidar swap Adventurers for Shades, but their gameplay is otherwise less constrained.

6. Arendel (Spi/Cre) of the Bannor
I don't think the Bannor need quite so large a crutch. Arendel is a nice upgrade on Capria.
Spiritual powers the Disciple units on the way to Fanaticism, and allows easy swaps in and out of Crusade. Creative lets heavily cottaged, hammer starved Bannor cities skip Monuments.


No Financial or Raiders leaders need apply.

[uberfish]

or Alexis/Svart and switch Amurites to Falamar, getting better early expansion and happy cap = more production to build defence with anyway

Phi elves are interesting because golden ages are very efficient on them and those traits aren't on any of the standard leaders.

[Azoth]

In that case, Dain or Einion of the Svaltalfar might be better.
Agg/Phi elves stand a fair distance ahead of the other picks.

[Mist]

I like these ideas. I still think Bannor could use Phi more than Spi, but Arendel is not bad.

Thessa of Kurios
Perp of Sheaim
Alexis of Amurites
Dain of Svarts
Falamar of Sidar
Arendel of Bannor

Everyone in favor?