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Mortius Wrote:Go and check yourself how much the second and all the other settlers and workers would be delayed if you build a settler before the second worker. Some even prefer a third worker before the settler if the map is forests heavy. Workers are hammers (from choping and tile upgrating) and speeds up everything else.
I'm not saying multiple workers isn't useful, it just doesn't change the starting tech choices much (with this start).
I'm trying to compare the various starting techs, not a build order for units.. If there is a build order you'd like me to use, say so, don't just keep bashing whichever one I use.
Or offer me an answer, don't just say "it's better this way". You keep saying "but that's wrong" but don't offer any proof. I've no idea how to tackle simming dozens of start options for 50+ turns, especially when you have no idea what will change your plans (terrain, enemy rush, whatever).
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Vote, lads! Democracy game it is.
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Mortius Wrote:We should whip the capital as much as we can. Whipping the capital "as much as we can" without additional happiness isn't always a good idea early on if it slows down our tech rate (Financial river cottages).
Though I did test the Agriculture/Hunting start and it seems pretty decent. Just don't think it's a good idea to throw away one trait slot for the Aggressive trait. After the start of the game, Aggressive really doesn't add much. On the other hand, a trait like Industrious doesn't come in until a bit later in the game, but it's an investment in our future.
Might be interesting to experiment with another trait, like Charismatic, to add a bit of happiness for extra whipping.
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Alright, a poll is far from a perfect solution, but we may as well give it a try and see what happens. 
Civ pick poll
Leader pick poll
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You know, thinking about the leader pick a bit, aside from Huayna I think my top preference might be Willem. I think I'd prefer being Creative to being Aggressive, anyway. Cheap Libraries are very nice, as is the lack of need for Stonehenge or Monuments.
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Hmm... Khmer means a guaranteed happy resource, and a very early one.
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Not sure if it'll be placed directly within our BFC or just within the general area though. Still, good thinking.
June 24th, 2012, 01:37
(This post was last modified: June 24th, 2012, 17:21 by Mortius.)
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Elkad Wrote:I'm not saying multiple workers isn't useful, it just doesn't change the starting tech choices much (with this start).
I'm trying to compare the various starting techs, not a build order for units.. If there is a build order you'd like me to use, say so, don't just keep bashing whichever one I use.
Or offer me an answer, don't just say "it's better this way". You keep saying "but that's wrong" but don't offer any proof. I've no idea how to tackle simming dozens of start options for 50+ turns, especially when you have no idea what will change your plans (terrain, enemy rush, whatever).
Elkad, I am not bashing you. I only pointed out that one worker into settler will not work. At least in normal circumstances. Don't take it personaly.
English is foreign language for me and may seems harsh or something, but it's not intentional It's the language deficit.
Look at workers as flock herders and cities as flock, you need at the very minimum one herder for one flock to take care of it, preferably more to connect cities establishing road network, and helping it with production by choping. One worker for one city usualy is occupied by improving tiles and it will be handy to have the second one at least at the start to help with producton by choping. Two cities sharing one worker will not work. Look how long it takes to establish our first city (34 turns), if we have a worker from turn 0 or even better from before the game to prechop and to improve some resources, our capital would be established in half a time if not faster. Workers gives young cities hammers. 1 size city will usualy have 1 hammer production, workers chop gives it +20 right away, it's 20 times us much. City with unimproved resource go from size 1 to size 2 in 11 or max in 8 turn, with improved one with 6 turns. Workers are the fuel of every civilization. We can't go at max speed without them.
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You say you are "not bashing", and then you go on to explain things anyone would know by the end of their first game.
It doesn't really matter what I pick for early builds (for testing purposes), the idea is to compare the various tech paths and worker moves. If I built 2 workers instead of one, it would just delay the settler by 6t and add 72 beakers to our research. The difference between the various choices would still remain the same.
If you'd like to compare the speed of a different choice, please do. Post some numbers here so we can see the gains.
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If we choose */EXP AND get an Agri/Hunting start, we can get both the worker and AH on turn 10.
We will have to work the sheep for 3 turns, giving us the three extra beakers.
EXP would give us 63 foodhammers into the worker (working the deer) in nine turns, but now would give 7 x 7 + 3 x 5 = 64 foodhammers into the worker on turn 10.
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