Hmm, looking at the screenshot in more detail, I do have a few worries. Mainly, I really hope we don't isolate any seafood by settling in place. I'm also a little worries that we appear to be on a peninsula. Our immediate expansion will almost have to be north.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(May 17th, 2013, 14:01)Merovech Wrote: Okay, cool. Does this mean that WarriorKnight and I have a trade-route advantage, btw?
I think it does. Sadly I don't know the details since I usually play AW, but I don't think we have to worry about foreign trade routes if/when we get OB.
(May 17th, 2013, 14:00)Merovech Wrote: Called it:
Indeed, another food resource is great for us from a tactical perspective, especially since we start with the tech. I'm going to have to bring this up again:
(May 14th, 2013, 20:31)WarriorKnight Wrote:
(May 14th, 2013, 20:01)Merovech Wrote: I'm not sure what the relative values are right now-we definitely want granaries as soon as possible, but it's not like the capital is going to grow very quickly on just the cow.
That's true, the cow isn't good enough to abuse a early granary by itself. If we have another food somewhere then I'll come back to this point, though.
I don't think we can afford to delay fishing for too long though, considering:
(May 17th, 2013, 14:18)Merovech Wrote: Hmm, looking at the screenshot in more detail, I do have a few worries. Mainly, I really hope we don't isolate any seafood by settling in place. I'm also a little worries that we appear to be on a peninsula. Our immediate expansion will almost have to be north.
We may have to deal with more coast then first expected. A high coast starts boosts ORG and perhaps FIN while nerfing EXP.
Let's see:
There are 2009 land tiles. 2009/10 = 209 tiles for civ = 10 cities of full land per player.
That's a decent amount of land actually, even more considering that not every city will be completely landlocked. We need to find it and focus on it quickly, if it isn't to our north then it's probably across the sea to the S perhaps?
Yeah. The large amount of coast is kind of sad. However, and this maybe just because this peninsula reminds me of Korea (especially without that SW tile), but I suspect that we have a fair amount of land to the North.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
I think the immediate question is AH versus BW first. I suspect that AH first is better, but I haven't yet simmed anything
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
First sim attempt: Settler finished t36 (well, end of t35, technically), 2 workers, 1 warrior, improved corn, cow, and 1 mine, size 3 capital with 2/26 food in the foodbox, enough overflow to 1t a workboat (31 hammers total, which will give 1 hammer overflow into the next build), 3 chops used, and one of the workers could be positioned on almost any other nearby tile. Neither worker has moved on t36. Screen shot is from t36. Finished AH,BW, and Fishing, 45/96 beakers into The Wheel.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(May 18th, 2013, 00:01)Merovech Wrote: First sim attempt: Settler finished t36 (well, end of t35, technically), 2 workers, 1 warrior, improved corn, cow, and 1 mine, size 3 capital with 2/26 food in the foodbox, enough overflow to 1t a workboat (31 hammers total, which will give 1 hammer overflow into the next build), 3 chops used, and one of the workers could be positioned on almost any other nearby tile. Neither worker has moved on t36. Screen shot is from t36. Finished AH,BW, and Fishing, 45/96 beakers into The Wheel.
I would suggest that one of the workers should perhaps start heading to the second city to get it improved ASAP, with the warrior as well for protection perhaps. Otherwise it's a great plan (better then I could come up with probably) excelling in capital buildup.
Oh, yeah. The warrior finishes on t31 or something like that, so we have a Vinod time to move him and one of the workers finishes chopping on t34 so can move elsewhere on t35 if we want (or we could skip a chop). I just put it on the mine because I'm not sure where the second city is going. I will try a few refinements today, however. I'm also going to see what I can do with a 1 worker set-up.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Alternate version of above plan, skipping second worker (I still have other possibilities to explore): Settler is produced at the end of turn 30 (so, usable t31), warrior is built the turn after (we can switch these two if necessary, since the final production is done via chop), worker is in position to move to the second city or continue chopping/improving tiles at the capital. Only one chop is used to this point. There are some options after this point; mainly, we could go worker next or workboat + growth. For easier comparison, I first went worker next.
Start of turn 36 comparison point, assuming that the worker makes one more chop at the capital, which finishes at the end of turn 35, and the new city does not use any of the capital's improved tiles: 1) Settler has been out of the city for five more turns using this plan. 2) Warrior has been out one turn less. 3) Second worker is produced much later (at end of t35), although it is not strictly needed, since we are still working just improved tiles to this point, though we are at much more of a risk of growing off improved tiles quickly than in the other sim, mainly because 4) No riverside grassland mine. 5) Only two forests have been chopped, compared to three. 6) Workboat is just being started, like in the other sim, but only 18 hammers will go into it, instead of 1-turning it with overflow (this gap is effectively the extra forest of production). 7) Capital is only size 2, with 10/24 food in the food box and growing at 8f per turn 8) 40 beakers into The Wheel instead of 45.
Well, I'm not sure which is better at this point; I think it depends on our second city location. There still might be a better third option, btw.
Note: Both plans improve slightly if we get a significant enough known-tech bonus on fishing or BW to cut off a turn researching fishing.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
The capital can slow build the second worker, btw, instead of getting the chop, so that the second city can get the worker turns. That's probably a lot better, since it only delays the worker by one turn later (though with much less overflow into the workboat).
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
I'd hold off deciding exactly what micro plan you want to do until we do some scouting. We spend 15 turns building the first worker before we can do anything else anyway, during that time the scout may be able to find our next city spot, and solve what to do with spare worker turns to our next city.
Also, if/when you need to hand the turnplaying over to me (is it sometime soon?), could you send me the microplan? I haven't spent as much time figuring out the moves as you have, and am sure to not follow them correctly if you don't leave instructions of some kind.
![[Image: T0%20Info.jpg]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15873301/Pitboss%2012/T0%20Info.jpg)
