[SPOILER] The Steak, Beer, and Cigar Saloon

[Dhalphir]

The other problem with the Colossus is that it obsoletes relatively early, while an Academy is always working for you. It also gives you a very strong reliance on coastal cities which can be risky.

[haphazard1]

That is a LOT of forests to your east. And many of them river-side grass tiles, too, perfect for some FIN cottage cheese. Hopefully there is some more food out in the fog, although you could settle to use the crabs to fuel a city with a lot of good tiles.

[Catwalk]

The other problem with the Colossus is that it obsoletes relatively early, while an Academy is always working for you. It also gives you a very strong reliance on coastal cities which can be risky.

I think it lasts for quite a long time. The Colossus is a small window of opportunity, while an Academy can easily be built a little bit afterwards. We could probably do some guestimations of which one gives more beakers though, and how soon. Feel free to throw numbers at me, I'm receptive to arguments

That is a LOT of forests to your east. And many of them river-side grass tiles, too, perfect for some FIN cottage cheese. Hopefully there is some more food out in the fog, although you could settle to use the crabs to fuel a city with a lot of good tiles.

You just don't give up do you I like persistence! I'm keen on the green tundra dot (only way to make good use out of that entire peninsula, and I think a city 3N of it would encroach too much. Maybe a city NE of the clams? That also gives the green tundra dot seafood right away afterwards.

How do you prefer discussing my micro plans? Want the full version here for in-depth dissection, or prefer touching on the main points and overall goals?

[Dhalphir]

I think scouting to the east is critical prior to planting a second city. The green spot is a nice city down the line, but I don't think it's good enough to waste that valuable first settler on.

[Catwalk]

Oh I'm not considering the green dot anytime soon, all I meant was that it's high priority putting a city there later. I'm still quite keen on the deer/PH site to the south, I think it's our best option unless there is a bunch of resources to the east. As haphazard pointed out, I might luck into more resources west of the deer that I might be able to grab.

Current micro results
Warriors on t28, 33, 38
Workers on t20 and t26
Settler t37, settling t39
Pottery t29

I'm feeling a little pessimistic about these results, but I think a good part of that is due to slow starting speed (2 useful resources, no early advantages, weakish starting techs).

If anyone wants to have a go at it, here's my sandbox and current micro plans:
EDIT: I put them in the 2nd post of this thread for easy retrieval.

If you're feeling energetic, try to play through my instructions first and see if you spot any mistakes or obvious alternatives. Feel free to suggest something entirely else, but I'm homing in on this one.

[Catwalk]

Also, where should our scout go next? I'm thinking E.

[Dhalphir]

I feel like a second city should aim to be as strong as the capital, if possible. That means at least two food resources, for me.

[haphazard1]

You just don't give up do you I like persistence! I'm keen on the green tundra dot (only way to make good use out of that entire peninsula, and I think a city 3N of it would encroach too much. Maybe a city NE of the clams? That also gives the green tundra dot seafood right away afterwards.

I guess I was unclear. I do like green dot for the future, but in this case I was thinking something NE of the crabs or maybe N2E (which would lose the wine, so it would depend on what is in the fog). Crabs, wine, and a bunch of river grass tiles for certain, and hopefully something else (like more food!) in the fog. If there isn't any other source of food in that area, then such a city would have to rely on the crabs and that would mean it has to be on the coast rather than further north.

Also, where should our scout go next? I'm thinking E.

East looks good to me. My fog-gazing skills are iffy at best, but there appears to be water 1N2E and perhaps non-forested land 1S2E. So east gives you vision across the water and then an open tile to move across the following turn. NE would reveal a bit more to the north but you will get that for free when the capital's borders pop. SE would not give vision across the water.

I feel like a second city should aim to be as strong as the capital, if possible. That means at least two food resources, for me.

I generally agree with wanting a strong second city, which requires plenty of food. But right now the only visible two food spot is SW of the wine, and since that is not coastal there would be big delays in netting the crabs so it is really only a one food site until later. So more food needs to be found to determine where the second city should go. I am really hoping for something to the east that would allow a crabs/wine/<other food> site with lots of river grass tiles. But we will have to wait for the scouting reports to come in.

[haphazard1]

I think scouting to the east is critical prior to planting a second city. The green spot is a nice city down the line, but I don't think it's good enough to waste that valuable first settler on.

I agree that green dot is not where you want to send the first settler, and almost certainly not the second settler either. Maybe not the third or even the fourth, depending on what scouting reveals. Especially if that is a peninsula down there and is safe from encroachment by rivals for a while.

Right now the deer tile is the strongest food available, with a crabs/wine site being second. With good luck both sites will have more resources in the fog and we will be debating about which should be settled first. With middling luck one will have resource(s) in the fog and it will be an obvious choice for the first settler. With poor luck neither site will have anything else.

There is also Bronze Working to consider. You can't feed a city with copper but it will still be a valuable target, assuming any shows up at all. Most of our discussion will become obsolete once that info comes in.

But we still need to talk about something until that happens, so let's dream of great city sites and a powerful feline empire.

[Catwalk]

So we all agree on dotmapping: Need more info (especially copper info and an extra useful resource would be swell)

But we still need to talk about something until that happens, so let's dream of great city sites and a powerful feline empire.

Then we can discuss my micro plan
Did either of you take a look at it? Comparing with other recent PB starts, it looks mediocre at best. I'm not seeing any obvious ways to speed it up though, and I'm already committed to the WB first then whip worker plan. Was that the right choice in these circumstances?