Sprites are underpowered?

[Nelphine]

I also think we should allow low numbers of storm giants to show up in easy nodes - 1-3 storm giants with a pile of phantom beasts is still fine.

[Seravy]

I'll try Air Elementals with the same limitation as Chimeras (only if node budget>=1000)

1. ACC
2. ACC
3. GOOD
4. FAIL/ACC (no node, neutral gnoll city)
5. ACC
6. FAIL
7. GOOD
8. ACC
9. ACC
10. OVER
11. OVER
12. ACC
13. GOOD/OVER
14. GOOD
15. GOOD
16. ACC
17. GOOD
18. FAIL
19. FAIL
20. ACC

15% fail, 45% acceptable, 30% good, 10% Over.

Slightly better. I think this will be acceptable with some minor tweaking of numbers, let's see...
1000->1100 for Air E. and Chimera minimal budget.
Hell Hounds 55-> 60 (these were buffed)
Fire Elemental 30->55 (this was also buffed and 1-2 armor is actually much more relevant than 1 melee)
Gargoyles 120->140 (this is fairly hard to kill and dangerous, too underrated.)
Fire Giant 180->210 (stronger fireball, also this is ranged and fairly strong in melee too, not an easy kill)
Phantom Warriors 29->40 (Seriously, I know this is easy to kill but 6 of them doesn't even buy a settler at 29 points. Waste of a monster slot...)
Phantom Beast 100->125 (not really worth this much as it's easy to kill, but needed to cover 900-1100 budget nodes)
Nagas 130->140 (same as above, but at least this has enough armor to not be easy one turn kills - at this value they can mix with beasts or warriors better too)

I wish there was some midrange sorcery monster for nodes but unfortunately there isn't, so the easy crap has to have some value to fill the budget.

On the bright side, this has pretty much no effect on Sprites balance, as they are just as easy to take out with anything else (and by that I mean anything that shoots) - it does affect the game as a whole though.

Meh, I wish there was some decent midrange sorcery monster that's not trivially easy but is sprites compatible, like a water elemental. We don't want one for wizards to summon, though.

[Nelphine]

What's your thoughts on allowing storm giants in easy sorcery nodes? My primary concern here is actually replayability. There are a LOT of phantom beasts out there right now.

[Seravy]

Bad idea, people usually stay away from Storm Giants even if they could beat them. The losses from armor piercing ranged attacks are very discouraging, and a tiny miscalculation (such as 1-2 more giants or 1-2 level weaker troops than usual) can result in losing the entire stack without killing any of the giants. (besides if I had to remove Air Elementals for being in the way of sprites too often, adding a different monster that does the same is not going to help there.)

[Nelphine]

I'd much rather face storm giants than air elementals. Even sprites can beat 2 storm giants.

[zhantul]

I don't attack them because Storm giants are missile immune. I prefer air elementals. Sure, I can't target them with missiles either, but losses are lower in melee battle with air elementals. Or I can blast them with a spell. On the other hand... Undead air elementals are sneaky units when an opposing wizard has them.

Only when playing chaos or sorcery do I try to fight storm giants. Otherwise, the AI can do the dirty work for me. i never tried sprites. Too squishy for my taste.

[Nelphine]

9 sprites with web can actually take 3 storm giants if no elementals. 4 if you're willing to sacrifice a whole stack plus a bunch.

[Seravy]

Well, yeah, that's the problem. Can take but the cost too high for the reward, not worth it. You can't even afford 9 sprites unless you already got another node.

[Nelphine]

Right, I'm not looking to have this all the time. But, its still better than air elementals, which for many units are simply invincible. I'm looking at replayability. There needs to be more combinations in sorcery nodes, or a) it gets frustrating seeing so many elementals (when looking at multiple games) and b) it gets boring seeing so many phantom beasts.

Also from a cost point of view, 2 storm giants should reward as much as 9 sprites cost. No, it can't be your first target. But it can be your fourth. 3 or 4 storm giants, yeah that's ugly. This isn't meant to be what you hit first, or even fifth. But you can hit it, which at least let's it add to replayability, and gives your sprites (or whatever other early unit you use) something to do when all the actual good targets are gone.

[Seravy]

With air elementals restricted to 1100+ nodes, it'll be fairly random I think.

"2 storm giants should reward as much as 9 sprites cost."
No it can't. The mana? Sure. The opportunity cost of using 720 of my overland casting skill (which could have gave me 12 x Heavenly Light?), it usually can't.
Sprites are not like bowmen or other crap you can afford to use if they earn you any scraps. Sprites have to earn more than any other spell you have to skip casting for them could. (and while I haven't tried, I'd expect 9 war bears to do better against 2 storm giants for a lower cost. They have lots of hit points and higher attack/figure.)