[SPOILERS] scooter's Industrial Revolution

[scooter]

Good post. Turn played and report coming in the next couple hours, but here's a few piggyback thoughts first.

The real problem is the Food stat. We are... behind. I've read and played enough of these Pitboss games to know that a team which falls this far behind in Food usually ends up losing the game.

Here's the other good news:



The #1 in food is Dreylin, but his food lead is a bit of a mirage. Well, that's maybe not the right word because it's a real lead. But basically he's farmed his entire land because of the Kremlin. A lot of that food exists purely to convert to hammers. I don't think food matters nearly as much as the usual ancient start where it's the most important stat. It mattered for the first 30T at expansion, but among the leaders the deciding factors will be production and tech pace. Dreylin's true output in food and MFG is probably similar to ours because his surplus is being used to offset his production deficit. Granted, his potential is much higher with his extra land, but it's not there just yet.

It's been so long since I played a game in the Industrial age that I actually forgot that infantry units get +25% against other Gunpowder units. Rifles are completely impotent against these guys. Much of Dreylin's army is based on Nationhood rifle drafting spam, cheap units with no promotions. They won't make much of a dent against C1 + Pinch infantry, which we'll have with defender's advantage and cultural defenses in cities. The only units that can trade decent with infantry are cavs, and even C1/Pinch cavs still lose badly to C1 infantry. So I think that if we can get some of these guys up in our border cities, Dreylin will be inclined to pursue softer targets. Assembly Line will obsolete much of that huge army we have hanging over our heads to the north.

I also love that little Civilopedia quote: "use them to counter enemies with lots of gunpowder units." I think that applies here.

Yeesh. I didn't know this either. I think we may need to have a slightly different mindset here. I'm not concerned anymore about defending cities, especially since most of our infantry are pinch. Dreylin would need truly ridiculous numbers to overcome pinch infantry, so I think he'll leave us alone. He's got softer options out there.

So maybe we should think about if/where we can pick up some land. Pinch infantry will romp over rifles, and that's what pretty much every civ in the game will be fielding still in 10T. Off-the-cuff notes on our neighbors:

1) Dreylin's army is huge, but poorly promoted, and he's got a bit of a target on his back after squabbles with half the players in the game. Tech rate is pretty bad right now.

2) Donovan's army is decent sized for the moment, but also no real promotions, and it's not nearly as big as Dreylin's. His rifles and grens would die horribly to Infantry. He does have cannons, though. Going to bottom of the tree means he'll have no prayer at getting infantry in time. He is on the path to MGs, but there should be a window before he gets there.

3) Pindicator is lagging behind us slightly, and his tech rate is also pretty bad. He won't have infantry, but his units should be very well promoted.

Of course, we definitely want to keep snagging city sites we can settle, but I'm really starting to think that other than getting some boats out, we won't really have to work too hard to defend ourselves. Perhaps the best way to get value out of early pinch infantry is to attack someone sooner than planned? I think we'll have time to get factories/plants in the key cities and still have breathing room before others have infantry or MGs of their own.

Interested to hear your thoughts on this.

And while we're here... this is the German unique building factory replacement, the Assembly Plant. There are two differences from a standard factory: it allows for 4 Engineer specialists instead of 2 Engineers, and the thing builds 50% faster with coal connected. Mini-Organized trait, essentially. With that bonus, we should be able to get these done in 2-3 turns in the capital and Haber, then the coal plant that follows is a lot cheaper (only 120 shields). When we discover Assembly Line, I think we'll have the capital and Haber get their factory/coal plant done immediately, then have them crank out some military to cover our other cities while they do their own factory/plant combo more slowly. We will probably also want to make a run at the Pentagon, which I think we'll be able to get pretty easily barring random Great Engineer shenanigans. Obviously this is getting a bit ahead of ourselves here..

Agreed with all this.

[Sullla]

We're not too far off from taking the offensive, but we also aren't quite there yet. I want us to reach Assembly Line and get factories/coal plants in our core, and then we can start looking for opportunities to go on the attack. Let's get to about Turn 315 and see where we stand then. I also don't think we need to push for an attack as long as we're still claiming empty land on the map, and we've got enough space to keep doing that for at least another 15 turns or so. (Also I am reluctant to attack Donovan/BGN because of how valuable the trade routes are right now. Maybe pindicator, although I'm leery of those combat traits, and I think the value of a peaceful border is really high. Dreylin would be my first target if possible - no trade routes and proven untrustworthy neighbor.)

I've been playing ahead in the sandbox (going beyond the recorded details to get a rough sense of things) and we have some fun stuff coming up. The real drivers of our empire are Steam Engine and Haber Process; they are both CRAZY cities even now in the pre-factory era. I'm not sure if this is coming across in the screenshots, but Haber is basically covering more than half the costs of our entire empire right now, Building Wealth at 51 gold/turn. Our entire costs for the empire are about 85 gold/turn, so... yeah it's pretty awesome. Steam Engine will be able to build Pentagon in about 8 turns after we do the factory and coal plant combo. Haber will be just short of being able to 1-turn infantry after it gets its duo. Like I said before, I think we have them cover us militarily, with some gold spent on grenadier/rifle -> infantry upgrades all along our border cities, while the other cities build their factories. And then we see who looks weak, flip into Vassalage + Theocracy + Pentagon, and we go smash someone with infantry that start with Combat 1 plus 9 more XP (!!!) Do you like units that have C3 + Pinch after winning a single battle? Yeah I thought so.

Random tidbit: we can actually get Assembly Line finished on Turn 304 if we want, but I don't think it's worth the sacrifices it would require. I'd rather take one more turn, build another settler in the capital, and be in a stronger defensive position on our borders.

[Tohron]

I think you should definitely make a run at the Pentagon: if the game is still up for grabs when people are fielding Marines and Destroyers+Transports, Pentagon + Vassage + Theocracy means 10xp units, translating into City Raider III Marines and Navigation II Transports. The ability to obliterate any coastal city within 7 tiles in a single turn would give a pretty decisive advantage to any civ that possesses it.

[scooter]

Oh yeah, we definitely want Pentagon. That'll be amazing for us.

Random tidbit: we can actually get Assembly Line finished on Turn 304 if we want, but I don't think it's worth the sacrifices it would require. I'd rather take one more turn, build another settler in the capital, and be in a stronger defensive position on our borders.

Yeah, I think we care more about the settler.

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My main concern with the military stuff is just that I don't want to wait too long. Early infantry will be a huge military edge, and I'd hate to wait too long and see our opponents running around with Infantry, MGs, or even Airships by the time we're ready, and then it's a much tougher fight. Dreylin has built himself a very strong position by taking a narrow window of military advantage and exploiting it hardcore against a neighbor that wasn't prepared for it yet. It hasn't handed him a free win or anything, but it's definitely improved his position a lot. I just don't want to miss a window if one opens up. But I don't disagree with your comments either. So I'll keep thinking about this.

[Commodore]

I don't think marines can take city raider, alas.

[scooter]

Turn 298



Production Power. Those food surpluses in cities that aren't building settlers/workers are pretty nice too. We're laying workshops at a rate of about 2-2.5 per turn, which is barely keeping pace with population growth.



Here's our next city. It'll have a workshop out-of-the-box, so that's nice.



Dreylin is still adding military. So uh, is he going to turn around and immediately go after Donovan? Or maybe this.



I have a feeling either REM or Dreylin will carve that up pronto. He's probably the only guy left who's an easy out. The rest will be much tougher until tech advancements happen.



Another settler, please.



Here's the demos we were discussing. I want to see what REM's GNP looks like when he's not teching Steam Power. I'm hoping the massive known tech bonus is helping a lot. He's still definitely got a higher true bpt than us right now.



Really hoping pindicator accepts the resource trade and we get the extra pop in Cotton Gin. No telling what the governor would do with the extra tile.

[scooter]

I don't think marines can take city raider, alas.

Yep, only melee and siege. Wait I feel like I'm missing something...

And Panzers.

[scooter]

Excruciatingly trivial micro tweak:



Sullla - I hired an engineer here rather than work a coast while building a worker. This nets us +1b and +1h.

The other teams may as well concede to us after that power move.

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Side note: Once we've got Assembly Line arrival date locked down, it may be worth getting a couple more beaker multipliers into Cotton Gin and then stagnate the city on a few scientists. Working coast was acceptable for growth, but we really don't have much motivation to grow this thing much more. 2 commerce pales in comparison to Rep scientists. See anything better we can do with this city? Obviously with Drydocks it'll be a serviceable navy pump too.

[GermanJoey]

Really hoping pindicator accepts the resource trade and we get the extra pop in Cotton Gin. No telling what the governor would do with the extra tile.

You can set the city governor to prefer certain types of tiles (food, hammers, commerce, beakers, or GPP) so that it'll pick what you want. It's those little buttons under the whip.

[scooter]

Really hoping pindicator accepts the resource trade and we get the extra pop in Cotton Gin. No telling what the governor would do with the extra tile.

You can set the city governor to prefer certain types of tiles (food, hammers, commerce, beakers, or GPP) so that it'll pick what you want. It's those little buttons under the whip.

Yeah I know this, but leaving it as-is (with no governing options selected) I'm pretty sure it'll just slap on another coast tile since all the other tiles are worse. Fine with me. If it picks a scientist or merchant instead, that would be fine with me too. Basically, a surprise sounds fun.