The Kuriotates: A Tale of Centaurs, Hubris, and Unbridled Enthusiasm

[Mardoc]

Had a look at the Basium save.

Wow, we're in a spot. Lost over a quarter of our centaurs, one of the Mercurian cities, and those beasts look like they can do some serious damage.

Looks like I'm taking over the Mercurians in interesting times, then. I've noticed you seem to be somewhat better at tactics than me; any recommendations before I play the turn? Or would you prefer to play this one yourself?

[HidingKneel]

My thoughts:

Let's give up on Sirona's. We've got our best paladin there right now, some centaurs, and an angel who could use iron weapons. They're just waiting to get smacked around by Hemah, but we need them to fight Bob.

On the other hand, Lugus' has a lot of improvements and is on the verge of being a productive city. I think it needs a bigger garrison. I'd say take at least one of those angels bound for our now non-existent city and send them down there.

We need Mercurian paladins yesterday. Looks like Kilmorph's can get out two confessors in the next three turns. An alternative is to build and upgrade acolytes. I think it's not quite worth it, but we are in a very tight spot.

We may need to fire the worldspell defensively. Not this turn, of course. But possibly next turn.

Basium is our best unit for fighting those beasts off. Bob's most dangerous beast has an anti-disciple and a guerilla promotion. Those won't do him any good on offense against Basium. I say put him in the thick of things, positioned to reach as many places as Bob might go as possible. No need to worry at all if one of the beasts can hit him, or even if a couple of beasts can hit him as long as we can hit them back afterwards. He is immortal, after all.

Bob's got HBR now, so we could be seeing a 5-move Rosier any turn now. Maybe coming up from Thoth's territory. 1-unit garrisons in supercities aren't going to cut it anymore. I'm going to start pulling centaurs in from everywhere. Also, I'll forget about Honor and tech Masonry -> Construction while saving money.

[Mardoc]

Let's give up on Sirona's. We've got our best paladin there right now, some centaurs, and an angel who could use iron weapons. They're just waiting to get smacked around by Hemah, but we need them to fight Bob.

On the other hand, Lugus' has a lot of improvements and is on the verge of being a productive city. I think it needs a bigger garrison. I'd say take at least one of those angels bound for our now non-existent city and send them down there.

Agreed on both. I'm wondering if we need to sacrifice more cities, in fact.

We need Mercurian paladins yesterday. Looks like Kilmorph's can get out two confessors in the next three turns. An alternative is to build and upgrade acolytes. I think it's not quite worth it, but we are in a very tight spot.

We have one axeman who can upgrade now. And one paladin already built, although he's going south for some reason? So I should be able to get the next two built in 3 turns. I think the two confessors plan is better. Because we need Bless on the front right away, anyway. After that, I'm thinking indefinite Axeman spam.

We may need to fire the worldspell defensively. Not this turn, of course. But possibly next turn.

I *really* don't want to do that. It would make it darn near impossible to finish Bob. You noticed one of the beasts is wounded?

And it wouldn't be a tragedy if we lost a paladin or two, either. It'd hurt, but not as bad as losing the WS.

Basium is our best unit for fighting those beasts off. Bob's most dangerous beast has an anti-disciple and a guerilla promotion. Those won't do him any good on offense against Basium. I say put him in the thick of things, positioned to reach as many places as Bob might go as possible. No need to worry at all if one of the beasts can hit him, or even if a couple of beasts can hit him as long as we can hit them back afterwards. He is immortal, after all.

Basium is our best unit, period. I was thinking he needed to be killing tigers, though, rather than puppies. I'm willing to have him go smash Beasts, though, if that frees up Kurios to defend against the PoL

Bob's got HBR now, so we could be seeing a 5-move Rosier any turn now. Maybe coming up from Thoth's territory. 1-unit garrisons in supercities aren't going to cut it anymore. I'm going to start pulling centaurs in from everywhere. Also, I'll forget about Honor and tech Masonry -> Construction while saving money.

Actually, the main question on my mind is whether the Kurios need to pause our grander plans to spam out a bunch of troops. We could have a centaur/turn/city if we revolted back to Conquest, I think. What I really want is a Hawk flight to figure out what Ilios has in store for us. I'm not afraid of Bob or Plako, but I am afraid of the Elohim.

[HidingKneel]

Well, if Bob's careful with those beasts I'd imagine he could force us to trade a paladin per beast, losing improvements as we go. That hurts us a lot more than it hurts him: he can build stronger beasts, and even with iron in Kurio hands, it'll take a long time to replace those paladins.

As for that paladin who was headed south: I think he was actually headed north (a crusader who was originally going to spread Order to Naggarond). Unfortunately he doesn't have a mobility promotion.

Ilios is a bigger worry in the long run, but I doubt he's coming straight at us. In a few turns, we'll have hawks to tell us where our defenses need to be the strongest. But at the moment, I'm definitely thinking it's our border with the infernals. And Basium's the most cost-effective way to fight him.

[HidingKneel]

Alright, turn 102 played. Quick update since I need to catch a plane this afternoon.

As you might have gathered from the panic above, Ilios and Bob both attacked this turn, killing 5 centaurs, an axeman, and razing one of the Mercurian cities.
I didn't attack anything this turn, just tried to get our units into a reasonable defensive position. Abandoned Sirona's Succor and Uddrur: I think we just can't spare the forces to defend those. The rest of the cities I think we should try to keep.

Mardoc moved Basium and Valin to the front lines, and I stacked two paladins with them. A couple of beasts could hit that stack next turn, but thanks to Basium I'm not too worried about them. Also moved a lot of centaurs into the theater (we've got sixteen left), and most of our workers into Junil's justice, in case they can give us a little extra mobility (two can play at that game!).

Considered swapping into conquest and building units, but decided against. With Basium at the front, I think we can fight this wave off without the worldspell. Most of Ilios's units are 2-movers; he was able to take us by surprise because we only had one ring of culture and he roaded right up to us. That'll be a lot harder with our more cultured cities, further from his territory. It'll be pretty much impossible once we have hawks. So while he's a huge threat, I think we can wait a little longer to deal with him. Another angel or two in Lugus' would not go amiss, though: they're too slow to be of much use against Bob's beasts, and we don't want to use them as fodder.

Bob has an anti-disciple, guerilla I beast that can occupy the hill north of Naggarond next turn. If it does that, Basium needs to kill it (paladins don't get good enough odds). That beast could also go for our mind node, but I expect Bob doesn't have vision on that.

Finished Masonry at 30% science this turn. Construction next, and we ought to have some gold for centaur upgrades if we need them.

Kwythellar started a confessor, Naggarond finished a hunting lodge, and Avelorn continued working on the Tower.

[HidingKneel]

Oh, and we should probably be pretty careful about coordinating our tactics for the next couple of turns. Hopefully we can do that without holding up the turns, though they've been coming in pretty late for the last few days.

[Mardoc]

Mardoc moved Basium and Valin to the front lines, and I stacked two paladins with them. A couple of beasts could hit that stack next turn, but thanks to Basium I'm not too worried about them. Also moved a lot of centaurs into the theater (we've got sixteen left), and most of our workers into Junil's justice, in case they can give us a little extra mobility (two can play at that game!).

Really? I could have sworn I counted tiles so that only one Beast could hit them. Figured Basium would have odds, and with March/Immortal I'd actually prefer he fight as often as possible.

Considered swapping into conquest and building units, but decided against. With Basium at the front, I think we can fight this wave off without the worldspell. Most of Ilios's units are 2-movers; he was able to take us by surprise because we only had one ring of culture and he roaded right up to us. That'll be a lot harder with our more cultured cities, further from his territory. It'll be pretty much impossible once we have hawks. So while he's a huge threat, I think we can wait a little longer to deal with him. Another angel or two in Lugus' would not go amiss, though: they're too slow to be of much use against Bob's beasts, and we don't want to use them as fodder.

Oh, that reminds me. I couldn't find the angel that was supposed to be generated when the Mercurian axeman died. All the angels I found already had Shield of Faith. Unless we get an angel with all the promos spent the same as the unit that died? (in which case, crusaders will be awesome angel fodder)

Bob has an anti-disciple, guerilla I beast that can occupy the hill north of Naggarond next turn. If it does that, Basium needs to kill it (paladins don't get good enough odds). That beast could also go for our mind node, but I expect Bob doesn't have vision on that.

Yep. Was planning to kill at least one beast next turn, possibly two. Unless Bob backs off. Valin has decent odds, around 70-80%; not sure if he should fight or not. I suppose it depends on what opportunities Bob gives.

Finished Masonry at 30% science this turn. Construction next, and we ought to have some gold for centaur upgrades if we need them.

That will help. As will getting everyone all Couraged/Loyaltied/Blessed.

Oh, and we should probably be pretty careful about coordinating our tactics for the next couple of turns. Hopefully we can do that without holding up the turns, though they've been coming in pretty late for the last few days.

Yep. Ideally we'll get the Beasts squished pretty quick and simplify our tactical problem. Having the ability to mass produce axes ought to help, too.

Ah...if things go really well and Ilios stays back, once we kill the Beasts we should drive straight for CL and the heroes. I suspect the more realistic scenario is things go really well, so that we can turn and fight for our lives against Ilios, but you never know.

[HidingKneel]

Alright, got internet access at the new place now. Time for an update.

The big news has been our border skirmish with Bob. Let's tell the story in screenshots. The first one is entitled "What is Bob up to?"



This next one I call "Oh my god, we're all going to die!"



One turn later, and Bob was pushing into our territories:



Fortunately, Basium is very mobile and was able to take out that dangerous mobility I/guerilla I/anti-disciple beast, leaving the Kuriotates with an easy mop-up:



So perhaps I was overreacting earlier. Though I think Basium was key: without him, I don't think we'd have been able to kill that well-promoted beast.

Where does that leave us? Well, it'll take Bob a few turns to rebuild his beasts. Not sure if he'll come at us again until he has four of them. But he has HBR now, so those beasts will be 3-movers. Which means they're faster than our paladins, unless we're moving along roads. I think we should keep Basium near the infernal border for the time being.

We also produced our first hawk at the end of turn 103. I think I'll send that one to Lugus' and scout northeast, to make sure Ilios doesn't take us by surprise again. We'll be getting several more hawks over the next few turns, which should dramatically improve our security (since centuars can move 8-tiles per turn over our road network, we should be able to respond to any threat in a hurry).

Tech wise, we finished masonry and construction, and we we'll finish Honor next turn. Sitting on a fair amount of gold which we can use to upgrade some centaurs, too.

Mardoc has some recommendations as to our next move:

I definitely agree on Ilios first, knowing where his army is (and what
it is) will let us know if we can afford to be offensive.

Which, we can be, if we just pick a different direction. I noticed
that Thoth *still* has neither Priesthood nor Optics nor an army. I
think Chargers ought to be able to conquer his non-lake stuff as fast
as last time, therefore. But this time, if we research
Fishing/Sailing, we can cash rush a navy and actually finish him. 6
new Mercurian cities would be a nice boost, particularly since they're
pre-improved and grown.

Ooh... very good idea. Except let's forget about sailing. We can take his land cities now. By the time we're ready to take his capital, we ought to have Eurabatres on-hand. I'd rather cash-rush him than tech sailing and cash-rush ships.

Also, if we take a city with OO in it, we can swap religions without MftD. That'll save us a turn of research (though we'll definitely still want fishing, for the seafood resources and pearls).

So if it looks like we'll have an opportunity, let's send some of our forces in that direction. Say... two Kuriotate paladins, one Mercurian paladin (the unpromoted one: let's either get some xp on him or get him killed), and a couple of centaurs. Five paladins + Basium should be more than enough to handle the border with Bob. Also, how about producing some acolytes in Kilmorph's Kith after you're done making pre-paladins? Would be handy for spreading order and bringing cities out of revolt.

Of course, it could be that next turn we see a huge Ilios stack coming in from the east, and all this is moot .

[Mardoc]

Ooh... very good idea. Except let's forget about sailing. We can take his land cities now. By the time we're ready to take his capital, we ought to have Eurabatres on-hand. I'd rather cash-rush him than tech sailing and cash-rush ships.

Also, if we take a city with OO in it, we can swap religions without MftD. That'll save us a turn of research (though we'll definitely still want fishing, for the seafood resources and pearls).

Don't get pearls or whales without sailing, I'm pretty sure, even if someone else hooks them up for you. And perhaps more importantly, a lot of the cities won't be worth a whole lot until we get Lighthouses in, another Sailing boon.

It's possible that Eurabatres will be born before we can get a party to storm the beaches, true.

So if it looks like we'll have an opportunity, let's send some of our forces in that direction. Say... two Kuriotate paladins, one Mercurian paladin (the unpromoted one: let's either get some xp on him or get him killed), and a couple of centaurs. Five paladins + Basium should be more than enough to handle the border with Bob. Also, how about producing some acolytes in Kilmorph's Kith after you're done making pre-paladins? Would be handy for spreading order and bringing cities out of revolt.

Of course, it could be that next turn we see a huge Ilios stack coming in from the east, and all this is moot .

I've been debating between acolytes and simply an endless stream of axemen. Especially now that we have all the buffs, angelic axes are pretty useful. And of course some of those can head south rather than north, if Ilios is cooperative.

Also, I'm thinking Valin might accompany the southern crowd. Almost lost him against the Beasts, he luckily withdrew. But I think he needs some more promotions, faster than Hero will grant them to him. And anyway, Thoth does have some hammers, he just has been gambling on the farmer's gambit. We give him time, and there'll be a lot more pain in the conquest than if we do it fast.

In any event, most of our near term plans will be dictated by what the hawks turn up, I assume.

[HidingKneel]

Ah, didn't realize that pearls required sailing. And forgot about lighthouses; we'll definitely need to rebuild the one in the Lanun capital, or it'll starve when we take over. Anyway, we can tech that one turn before whenever we'll be needing it.

I've been debating between acolytes and simply an endless stream of axemen. Especially now that we have all the buffs, angelic axes are pretty useful. And of course some of those can head south rather than north, if Ilios is cooperative.

Well, no need to choose one or the other. Can stream axemen with a few acolytes in the mix. Do we get free units if confessors build Order temples in cities without order? If so, that might a good idea. It'll let a new city build military instantly, give us some free units. And it should be fairly efficient to build acolytes and upgrade them to confessors, given the ingenuity trait.

Also, I'm thinking Valin might accompany the southern crowd. Almost lost him against the Beasts, he luckily withdrew. But I think he needs some more promotions, faster than Hero will grant them to him.

Sounds like a good idea. He can always zip right back, if we end up needing him against Bob or Ilios.

In any event, most of our near term plans will be dictated by what the hawks turn up, I assume.

Agreed with one caveat: if we're going to put that 1-move paladin on the front lines of our conquest of Thoth, he should probably start heading south immediately.