RBP3 - [SPOILERS] - Team DIM (Mehmed of HRE)

[Ilios]

I vote moving the settler, but move the worker (which was supposed to move together with the settler) SW on the wheat tile and start road, then cancel orders. Next turn Sysiphus can finish that road (and gain us a worker turn) allowing Marx to move through DIM on the road and start the Horse Pasture as planned. This will get our chop 1 turn earlier in Horse city (voting for chop in monument)

[Ilios]

Diplo update:

England:

Subject: Tech Cartel

To the Cartel, c/o HRE

Greetings from team CHASM of England. We thank you for your gracious invite to join your cartel of tech traders and close allies, and gladly accept. From our understanding, the agreement is to fill in gaps in our techs after mighty Egypt builds the Oracle, and then each team heads for a specific tech. What would be the specific tech that we should head for as contributing members of the Cartel?

FYI: We will be meeting Carthage next turn (T57), and then will head north-west to meet the other civs, unless we hear from you. Richard will end T57 being 3S1W of the single peak.

Your friends,
Cyneheard, Haphazard1, Antisocialmunky
Lords of Avalon

This is what I sent back:

To the leaders of Avalon,


Greetings and welcome aboard!

Your understanding is correct concerning the tech specifics. Team DIM is the only exception, as we are already heading for Horseback Riding. We are currently one of the top researchers (step forward, Gold tile), and will be finishing it in about 14-15 turns. This will give us early access to critical military technology, and will give a signifant advantage over the teams outside of the Cartel. (besides the Tech trades)
Once you meet up with Krill, he'll explain fully what is expected from you.

I believe Carthage has graciously offered to arrange a meeting between Richard and Krill's unit, so I think it would be best to wait for their instructions.

On a side note, I believe it would be in our interest not to burn all the bridges with the teams outside of the Cartel. If they approach you, I suggest you stall them as long as possible. (we're currently discussing our options, we haven't met enough of the other teams yet, etc). I'd like the outside teams to remain unaware of our Alliance until Krill lands the Oracle on T62 at least.

Anyway, do what you think is best!


Until we meet again,


Highest regards,

Ilios for the Principality of DIM

Carthage have given us a heads up they met England and will coordinate with Krill for a meet-up. I've thanked them and sent the same message concerning stalling the teams outside of the Cartel.

Cartel:

Subject: Horseback Riding ETA and England

To all,


This is a heads up to tell you that after Carthage, England have officially confirmed as well their wish to be included in the Tech Cartel.

As they are close to members from the other tech alliance, I have told them to keep stalling this alliance's overtures, at least until Egypt lands the Oracle on T62.

Horseback Riding tech has been started, current ETA T73, but will probably be finished a couple of turns sooner.

If someone could forward this information to our "outer member" (i.e. Portugal), we'd be much obliged.


Highest Regards,


Ilios - DIM

I've forwarded Meatbalz' thoughts to Ruff regarding dividing the forces at Inca's capital.

[Ilios]

---- Important Diplo Update ----

Egypt (Krill):

Subject: France

HRE,

Thanks for the email, but I'm afraid that I may have to suggest something that you find to be a complete anathema. I think we need to ask France into the Alliance.

I'll give you reasons why here: We have 2 Fin and 1 Phi civ without France. The counter alliance has 5 Fin and 2 Phi civs, if they have France. 3/2 v 4/1 sounds slightly more in our favour. It also means that HRE, England, Eygpt and Portugal only have to deal with a single front, instead of dealing with a possible enemy stack coming up from around France. Without France me and England might find it difficult to mount a strong attack on France, because we have other borders to protect, due to hte lay out of our front (we are both on the corners in the south).

Now, I know France have been rude and aggressive, and I agree with you that they need to be exterminated, but we have bigger fish to fry right now. You have aggressive Rome to your NE, aligned against you. Me Carthage and England have the entire row south of us aligned against us, with the row behind them stuck in a 3v3 war, so have no worries on that flank. They might be backward now, but remember the lesson of the NUTA, it doesn't take long to catch up.

FWIW, I agree with you that France need to die, and I'm willing to agree to a long term (hidden) agreement to remove France from the game, but right now they are a tool that we need to use.

I know Ilios is a great used car salesman, so if you agree with this, please can you try and grab France into the Alliance as fast as you can?

Thanks in advance,

Krill

Well, we'll have to think this over...

[meatbalz]

it makes much more strategic sense than going after them early like egypt was suggesting. i've been thinking about this for some time, especially since it became clear we have serious issues teching the expensive techs as a group. the problem is even if we bring them in france will have trouble meeting the other alliance civs. and of course we would need a written guarantee from egypt that once the expensive techs are traded he is willing to commit troops to taking the french out. still, i've pointed out our situation wrt neighbours is pretty poor. with war w/ inca coming and rome an enemy, securing france's tech support is important. i might be willing to bring them in if it's THEM that make settling concessions + provide us with screenshots.

again a rambling post but the nub of it is i am not against it in principle although there are many details to be ironed out in a short amount of time

[Ilios]

I saw that you mentioned earlier preferring to work with Carthage and England over India and Aztec and that was, at least in part, due to them being similarly new to MP. Could you expand on your reasoning behind favoring that affiliation.

Our lands fit better geographically, doesn't contain a crippled nation (Aztec), and doesn't contain a nation we'll have little to no influence on. Nothing is decided yet, but I predict in the long term our alliance will include Carthage and England.

Since Rome isn't in our tech alliance, then have we discussed the possibility of simply choking them? If our whole tech alliance committed one archer or some other simple (non-warrior) unit, I think that could work out really well.

Nobody close but us could spare a unit. India concentrates on Exploit, Aztec and Ottomans are bogged down with Inca, the others are too far to be of any help. Besides, they have copper by now, our archer wouldn't survive very long.

France is an ongoing concern to me simply because I do not trust their leadership. I don't see them gaining a huge advantage to committing to a war right now, but I also don't put it past them.

See above...

I agree with MB re strategic importance of including France. Whether they'd be willing to join (instead of attacking us instead) is another matter.

[dazedroyalty]

Checking in...

I actually like the idea of letting France in as long as it is thought of as using them until we've sucked the marrow from their bones and then letting them wither away. (Too strong of imagery?) That is, keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. I 'm not sure the best way to handle the issue of inviting them to the alliance. I would guess that it shouldn't come from us. Depending on how their interactions with other civs have been, it might be possible for someone else to make convince France they're getting a big favor to be let in.

As to the settler, I'm very conflicted. You both seem to prefer moving ahead and so that's what we should do. I would definitely do that in a SP game b/c I know I could compensate against dumb AIs. But in MP, I find myself feeling more cautious. That said, fortune favors the bold and if we consistently play defensively, we won't be a large factor in much of anything. Let's go for it.

[Ilios]

The problem with France is that no other Cartel member has met France yet, so we'd be the ones proposing. Anyway, I'll send a message to Krill that we agree that France needs to join for strategic reasons.

Fortune favors the bold indeed. Forward Combat Settler!

Diplo-update:

Ottomans to Cartel members:

Subject: Tech path

To members of the alliance (we could use a name of some sort),


We never officially mentioned it, but Carthage has also confirmed that
they are part of the alliance.

Also, having talked to Krill we are now on IW with an ETA of about
T72, but it might also be sooner.

Can someone forward this to Portugal?

[Ilios]

Email to Krill:

Krill,


After discussing this with the team, we have come to the conclusion that we indeed need France in the Cartel for strategic reasons.

Although we would feel another team would be better placed to approach France, it would seem that they still haven't met any other Cartel members, and as such DIM will be making the proposal.

I must add that I've had a nagging feeling that France is about to prepare for war with us. I've sent them a NAP-extension request yesterday, and have had no answer as of yet.

I'm thinking what would be the best way to approach France. Do I tell them of our plans right away, or do I simply invite them to our Cartel without giving the specifics? As you know, we have no trust whatsoever in this team, and I'm afraid that critical information on the Cartel could end up in the wrong hands.

For now, I will give France another 12 hours to answer our NAP proposal before mentioning the Cartel.


Regards,


Ilios - DIM

[dazedroyalty]

I have a hard time imagining that France hasn't met ANYONE else yet. I would love to know how their other diplomatic interactions are going. Worst case scenario, they have met Rome and are getting along splendidly. Rome is looking for a target of their aggression and France says, "I know someone..."

[Ilios]

It would seem that Portugal is currently Rome's preferred target, as they had some tussles in the past. The north will not be a peaceful place...

Aztec <-> Inca
India <-> Sumeria
Portugal <-> Rome

If France doesn't agree to join, we better prepare for war as well.

MB, you said you'd do a draft to send to Inca?