[SPOILERS] Tatan, CFCJester and Nakor try their hand at Mansu of India...

[Hesmyrr]

You can't really call surrendering to "give me your cities or " a gift
At minimum, peace treaties that ask for cities as a price is fine since there are clearly beneficial strategic reasoning behind the offer/capitulation.

[Ceiliazul]

Cities transferred in a peace treaty are fine. In the past, players have been on the losing side of a war and gifted their stuff to a 3rd party just to deny their attacker. That's a no-no.

[CFCJesterFool]

Cities transferred in a peace treaty are fine. In the past, players have been on the losing side of a war and gifted their stuff to a 3rd party just to deny their attacker. That's a no-no.

I can understand that but let's look at it from the perspective of the attacker's rivals. What would have happened if at the start of the war we proposed giving Scooter all of our cities (except capital)? Seems very exploitable to me. I'd think the fairest rule would be no transfers of cities period, except by force ofc. The only negative is you would lock a player who is losing into playing turns that might not be fun. Idk, I think I'd be mad if I found out an opponent had gifted a bunch of cities to their attacker since gifted (or surrendered..doesn't matter, game mechanic is the same) cities keep buildings and ofc in war there are always losses (re: fluke RNG results).

[CFCJesterFool]

Events on..

Seriously, who plays with events on in a multiplayer game? I guess for the lolz. Space attacked us and we now have a GGeneral (with a conveniently located trireme/galley to pick up the general and our last axe)...

Well, the rules being what they are, we could do this (which does make sense I think)...

Clam City is pretty worthless to us and I'd rather Scooter/Pin not get it. Another option is to surrender all but CC for a quick exit from the game (yeah, rule needs to be modified to prevent ALL city transfers imo). What do you think Nakor? Personally, I say we try to keep FG...who knows we might have an event give us a battleship. In the end, it doesn't really matter so whatever you decide if fine by me.

[Ceiliazul]

One really interesting thing is that right from PB1 there was much concern about getting the rules right. As time went on, the rules got more complex and more concrete. And inevitably someone would use the wording to justify some action which was obviously against the spirit of the rule... and so the next rule set got tighter.

And then recently, we stopped trying to make ironclad rule sets and basically said: "do what's right." If this game used the complex rules of past games, you'd now be playing in a six hour window (due to 4-way war) and that sucks for everybody.

Even if it seems squishy that you have to play first in a war you didn't start, it's better than the old way of doing things. We're all trying to be honorable and have fun, basically, without getting bogged down in lawyer-ese.

Clam City is pretty worthless to us and I'd rather Scooter/Pin not get it.

Jester, please do not give Xenu a city unless he earns it.

[CFCJesterFool]

Even if it seems squishy that you have to play first in a war you didn't start

That wouldn't be how I would phrase it...illogical is more like it. I won't agree to ever play again under that particular rule...not when there is a better, logical answer to solve the double movement problem (and which doesn't have the flaw where you could be forced to beak the no communication rule in an AI diplo game to keep from breaking the double movement rule..see the contradiction?) I really should post a full article explaining my position but tbh it doesn't change this game and I am kinda lazy anyway.

Almost forgot, I seriously doubt Space would want the city anyway. Nakor's call regardless.

Edit: 4-way war huh? Ok, that makes it more complicated. In that case should have went with AI diplo plus public banter thread (for special cases like this).

[Qgqqqqq]

The ai diplo isn't as strict as you making it out to be - generally the type of communication you and scooter engaged in would be fine.
The idea is no communication is about in game issues - a completely different story from asking someone when they intend to play the turn (to use apb 5 example).

[CFCJesterFool]

The ai diplo isn't as strict as you making it out to be - generally the type of communication you and scooter engaged in would be fine.
The idea is no communication is about in game issues - a completely different story from asking someone when they intend to play the turn (to use apb 5 example).

You assume that was the question, which it wasn't. That really isn't my main issue, I just don't like how double movement is being handled (in simple terms). It's all good though.

[Qgqqqqq]

Then post the article (without specific references) in the main forum.
Unfortunately most of your points contain spoilers.

I also bring it up not because I consider it important, but because you keep bringing it up - and whether or not its the most important issue its clearly one that is of importance.

[Nakor]

Sorry, was away...

Jester, let's NOT gift that city away. Let Space get it himself.

I'll be back later today, can you end turn for us?