WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Rowain]

To elaborate my answer to zak:

I'd been considering moving off flug up til I read this post.

Zakalwe & Q - can you both explain why you think the case on flug is weak? Zak, especially you. This appears a lot like what thestick did in WW19 (18?). And you nailed him for that day 1. How is this different?

It really is reminiscent of thestick's newbie wolf play. A suspicious enough first post to draw attention, and then a very scummy reaction to the attention he's getting. I'm pretty comfortable sticking with flug now.

I don't like this post by Azza either. I might be willing to lynch him for this post, given that he's a pretty good day 1 policy lynch to begin with.

later:

Look again at this post. What Azza is really doing here (if Flug is innocent) is popping in to say he'll stay on Flug, but shifting a good deal of the blame for his mislynch onto Pindicator. Also, it's basically an appeal to authority. It feels very opportunistic to me, and that's why I said he picked up on a random accusation. Really, he's making an excuse for staying on Flug, not trying to push him further. As if he knows how it will actually end - in a mislynch.

(Now tone it down a few notches for how I actually feel about that post. But the above is a hyperbole to make my point.)

The vote:

I'll go with Azza. All things considered, I think he's a better day 1 lynch than Gaspar, based on what we've seen so far.

This is kind of predicated on Flug being innocent, but I certainly don't mean to say that I take that for granted. Just that all in all, Flug being innocent and Azza being scum seems like a reasonably probable scenario.

Looking for assistance

Gaspar - I'm using the scraper now to see if there's a good compromise candidate. What about Azza, though?

and the switch to flug

Well, I also think Flug is a little more likely to be scum than Ichabod.

So given that choice I'll go with flug_auto.

You know where I malevolent I would say you were already preparing the Azza-lynch for day 2 knowing full well that flug will turn out as villager - doesn't make you automatically scum but just so you know what I keep in mind.

[Rowain]

Rowain also took my joke off that post. I said I was a poor judge of character because I judge all characters poor.

Why did you take my joke off, Rowain? Trying to make a better case by hiding relevant information?

There is a joke somewhere?

[Ichabod]

Rowain also took my joke off that post. I said I was a poor judge of character because I judge all characters poor.

Why did you take my joke off, Rowain? Trying to make a better case by hiding relevant information?

There is a joke somewhere?

Here:

Here's a question for everyone around. I think if Meiz is nice and Rowain is a baddie, Rowain would get pretty angry at the GM for giving villagers such an easy way to clear themselves. So someone should look at Rowain's vote against Meiz and analyse if it's an "angry-at-GM" revenge vote or just an "I-suspect-you" vote. I'd do it, but I'm a poor judge of character. I always judge all characters poor...

See, there's the joke (maybe it's a bad one, but that's not relevant here - mostly because it was a good joke). In the quote you posted from me, you took the joke out. Why was that? It seems a pretty deliberate edit to my post.

[zakalwe]

The timing in this post seems to be off. It seems like just a post-facto created reasoning. Gazglum says that he things someone on the flug_auto voters is scummy (he doesn't say why he thingks that, though, at least I didn't see it). He voted for Gaius Marius and got called on that. Now, in this post, after he already voted and got called on it, it seems that he really went and analysed his suspicions. It seems that he only analysed them because of the suspicions that started against him. It's hard to explain, but it's a problem of timing, the timing doesn't seem to fit.

I want others to chime in on this. I think Meiz picked up on this same point in the thread. What do the others think? Am I seeing things? Confirmation bias?

I'm not sure I see how the timing is suspicious, to be honest. I guess I'd need to reread it in a larger context to get any feel for that. Gazglum was questioned about why he chose Gaius Marius, so he went through and explained it. Nothing wrong with that really, but he is perhaps being overly defensive, in the sense that he's giving an extremely thorough reply.

I don't think it was a bad idea to look at the flug_auto voters and consider which of them might be scum. I did the same thing, after all, and landed on Azza. But Gazglum gave Azza more or less a free pass, while instead landing on the other potential suspect that I had mentioned. So I don't like that.

A bit hard to take your case on Azza seriously when you happily voted with him to lynch flug.

Seriously? Since my case didn't gain any traction yesterday it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously? So by not staying with my lone vote on Azza yesterday, I somehow forfeited my right to chase him today? My case against Azza was largely predicated on flug_auto being innocent. It's perhaps understandable that people were reluctant to accept that premise yesterday. But now that we actually know flug_auto was innocent, don't you think it's worth taking another look at it?

[zakalwe]

About your elaboration Rowain - aren't those quotes equally compatible with me thinking Azza was a better lynch than both flug_auto and Ichabod, and trying to gain support for that?

[zakalwe]

About your elaboration Rowain - aren't those quotes equally compatible with me thinking Azza was a better lynch than both flug_auto and Ichabod, and trying to gain support for that?

Though I should add I'm not sure quite where I really stood by the end about Azza vs. flug_auto. If I had gained more traction against Azza earlier, I'm pretty sure I would have stayed on him. Both of them were clearly better lynches than Ichabod, though.

[Ichabod]

The timing in this post seems to be off. It seems like just a post-facto created reasoning. Gazglum says that he things someone on the flug_auto voters is scummy (he doesn't say why he thingks that, though, at least I didn't see it). He voted for Gaius Marius and got called on that. Now, in this post, after he already voted and got called on it, it seems that he really went and analysed his suspicions. It seems that he only analysed them because of the suspicions that started against him. It's hard to explain, but it's a problem of timing, the timing doesn't seem to fit.

I want others to chime in on this. I think Meiz picked up on this same point in the thread. What do the others think? Am I seeing things? Confirmation bias?

I'm not sure I see how the timing is suspicious, to be honest. I guess I'd need to reread it in a larger context to get any feel for that. Gazglum was questioned about why he chose Gaius Marius, so he went through and explained it. Nothing wrong with that really, but he is perhaps being overly defensive, in the sense that he's giving an extremely thorough reply.

I don't think it was a bad idea to look at the flug_auto voters and consider which of them might be scum. I did the same thing, after all, and landed on Azza. But Gazglum gave Azza more or less a free pass, while instead landing on the other potential suspect that I had mentioned. So I don't like that.

To me it seemed like he was having those thoughts about the players voting for Flug_auto for the first time. Like if he haven't done it before, when he decided to vote for GaiusMarius, and he's only now doing it, after being called on it. Or better, it seems like he was reaching those conclusions while making the post, rather than explaining why he did what he did.

But, yeah, maybe I'm seeing too much into it.

[Ryan]

I am going through some really terrible shit mentally and i cant play

[Serdoa]

Seriously? Since my case didn't gain any traction yesterday it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously? So by not staying with my lone vote on Azza yesterday, I somehow forfeited my right to chase him today? My case against Azza was largely predicated on flug_auto being innocent. It's perhaps understandable that people were reluctant to accept that premise yesterday. But now that we actually know flug_auto was innocent, don't you think it's worth taking another look at it?

So, your case revolved around flug being innocent but you still did nothing to save him but happily voted him off. The funny part is that you yourself already realized how dumb the above statement is and quickly corrected yourself with follow-up posts. But that still leaves that obvious contradiction zak, and just makes it that much more obvious. You wanted to lynch Azza because you believed he is scum and you yourself stated for that flug had to be innocent. So why lynch him? I understand you would want to switch if you are the only voter on Azza. But to the target that HAS to be innocent if your read - that you tried to gather supporters all day - is correct? That makes absolutely no sense, no matter how you tried to explain it now.

@Rowain

Was mich wirklich aufregt, ist die vollkommene Ignoranz die an den Tag gelegt wird. Mag damit zusammenhängen das ich mich im Job mit ähnlichem herumschlagen darf, aber es ist einfach anstrengend wenn man blöde Sprüche kassiert (wie oft wurden am Tag 1 unsere "walls of text" gerügt?) und Ichabod noch viel extreme Textwälle (und da passt das Wort sogar) bastelt und dafür dann von genau den Spielern gelobt wird die vorher noch über einen herzogen.

Und ja, ich weiß ich sollte das einfach ignorieren und mir meinen Spaß suchen im Spiel.

[Serdoa]

To me it seemed like he was having those thoughts about the players voting for Flug_auto for the first time. Like if he haven't done it before, when he decided to vote for GaiusMarius, and he's only now doing it, after being called on it. Or better, it seems like he was reaching those conclusions while making the post, rather than explaining why he did what he did.

But, yeah, maybe I'm seeing too much into it.

God you give up easily. You talked so loudly about what you would show us and how you would provide us with the greatest lynch ever in history and now you already back down, your case not even living through the night? Why does that remind me on your pindicator case? Or in fact, on your whole play... you are much more interested to agree with Lewwyn, zak and novice than to actually go for your reads. As long as you agree with them everythings fine, because they won't vote you and without those voting you, you won't get lynched.