As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer

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WW 45: I'm an Illegal Alien

(February 10th, 2017, 14:57)AdrienIer Wrote:
(February 10th, 2017, 14:24)Rowain Wrote: Tell me Adrien why would I as scum put myself up on Day2 together with Lewwyn. This is such a strange notion that I really have to wonder what your purpose is.

Why you would put yourself there : because Dp was in trouble and you wanted to give him a break. But you thought that having none of the scum be nominated was dangerous. So you realized that having town believe that both scum were out of the lynch, while you were there was best. Hence why you put the 2 most towny (at the time) people with you. It was risky but you were in a tough spot with Lewwyn being certain that Dp was scum. So you took the risk.

I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but I'll reiterate. I don't think that's what happened. I'm almost certain that the last scum is Psilly. But I think this is more likely than Gazglum who I read as very town.

Why would I risk myself whom Lewwyn has declared as town together with Lewwyn when I could have easily Gazglum and Psilly up there? Don't you realize that scum Rowain would never do such an idiocity. Lewwyn declared me town why would I risk such a valuable asset to give DP a break? He was a walking dead man already. This nomination is scums nightkill do you really believe I put myself (rather unsuspected) in danger and risk a player who calls me obv town several time? Whom do you think I thought get lynched on day2?
If I'm scum and Gaz town I put Gaz and Lewwyn up. Afterall Lewwyn has called Gazglum scum and not town!! I let those 2 fight and whoever wins is the mislynbch I would need.
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A point that is giving me pause about you being scum is when you convinced Lewwyn not to vote for himself. I need to find a reason why you would do that instead of letting him hang himself.
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Rowain, your indignation is boring. Nobody is attacking you. We are pointing out that you could be scum. You could be scum and do all these things for WIFOM. We are trying to lay out the best plan for the town, and you don't get a free pass over everybody else to have your play analysed. Of the three of us, your votes were marginally the most pro-dp. That is all. If you want to play a game based around people attacking your credibility then don't get annoyed when they attack your credibility.
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(February 10th, 2017, 10:56)AdrienIer Wrote: I like Gazglum's tone. I liked Gazglum's stance yesterday. And, since D2 I have had some doubts (not great but some nonetheless) about Rowain. If it's not Psilly it's got to be Rowain

I really don't like your proposition Psilly, because it sets up a "oh, of course now that Gazglum has flipped town I realize that I was wrong, and that it was obviously Adrien all along" tomorrow. Or maybe an attack on Rowain, but I doubt it somehow. 
That + your gambit about not being nominated makes a perfect pair of complicated ploys to confuse town. I, like Gazglum, will vote Rowain today and Psilly tomorrow. I doubt something (other than the person we lynch today being unexpectedly scum) would take me out of this path.

If Gaz flips town, then you're right, I would look extremely scummy...which would only guarantee that Rowain would hold to his pre-commitment to lynch me.  It doesn't matter at that point if I try to weasel my way out of it, if that weaseling only makes me look scummier and seals the deal on my lynch even more.  Why don't you trust the idea of the pre-commitment?  How could this possibly play into my hands as scum?  Do you really think Rowain would waver between voting for you or voting for me tomorrow?  If he votes Gaz today with me, and Gaz flips town, you can bet Rowain will feel manipulated and understandably read me as definitively scum at that point.  

If I had had my way, I would have liked to get nominated today and lynch myself, and clear up that question mark to let town win the 2 vs. 1 tomorrow with the power of veteran intuition and spared the complicating factor of my presence.  I have no confidence that I can win at this point if it comes down to a 2 vs. 1 with me in it.  But since I couldn't get my way, my pre-commitment deal is the best way I can think of to accomplish what I wanted to do before (lynch myself and then hope Adrien and Rowain would realize Gas was scum on Day 5).  It's just that now I'm being forced to reverse the order of these things in time.  

(February 10th, 2017, 16:38)Gazglum Wrote: Rowain, your indignation is boring. Nobody is attacking you. We are pointing out that you could be scum. You could be scum and do all these things for WIFOM. We are trying to lay out the best plan for the town, and you don't get a free pass over everybody else to have your play analysed. Of the three of us, your votes were marginally the most pro-dp. That is all. If you want to play a game based around people attacking your credibility then don't get annoyed when they attack your credibility.

Frankly, this whole discussion today has been boring for me.  Just vote Gaz and then vote me if Gaz is town.  Q is entitled to handle the time limits however he feels like, but for the record my vote is locked in.  And it looks like, unless Rowain switches off Gaz, Gaz will hang due to being the first to two votes.  That pleases me.   popcorn
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Psilly, I think we can all agree that if it gets to Day 5, you will be lynched. So on the off-chance you are town, this is your last chance to get it right, and right now, you aint right.

I am town. Everybody seems to agree that Adrien is town (we'll all be laughing if he's not), and Adrien is also saying I am town. You have not shown up any actual scummy things I have done, because there aren't any. My dance between Lewwyn and Rowain was to try and get movement on the one I thought was more likely to be scum, without lynching Adrien. I made a mistake on Jabbz Day 1, but after that was unwavering in my certainty it was DP, and nailed him Day 3.

If you're town, you probably think I am scum because i have been attacking you, but I have been attacking you because your play has been inconsistent. YOu're not backing up any of your assertions with evidence. The fact that everyone thinks your scum shows that that is the way your game reads, it's not a conspiracy to mislynch.

SO yeah, I think you're scum. But if you are not, I think it is Rowain. Rowain has the poorest record on DP, he is reacting overly defensively to being included in people's lineups. He was the most reluctant of us to come right out and say "DP is scum" befor ethe lynch. I had to ask him directly, and he gave this rather evasive answer:


(February 5th, 2017, 10:17)Rowain Wrote:
(February 5th, 2017, 07:07)Gazglum Wrote: Rowain, do you think that DP is scum?
Here is the problem: His play so far has been scummy. He tries to get forgotten, his logic for why Lewwyn is scum and a pair with Gazglum seems far fetched. But if DP is scum then I find it hard to find anybody else to be his scumbuddy besides you Mr Glum. And while Lewwyn is sure he found scum in you I still fail to see it. So I'm bound to look elsewhere.
 
That seems to me artificially shutting down the possibilities on DP. For example, not thinking that You/DP were possible.

Then Rowain's Day 3 was weird. I thought we were all on the same page going into Day 3 that DP was scum. At the same time, it was clear that Day 3 was scum's last best chance to win - if town got it wrnog, scum won instantly. If DP went down, scum has to survive 2 more whole days. So I would expect to see the scum try and save DP, which is what both you and Rowain did. Whichever one of you is town should be very suspicious of the other one.

On Day 3, Adrien and I immediately voted DP and never moved, but Rowain voted you. But after we responded to him neither Adrien or I showed interest in that, meaning that it looked impossible to get a majority onto you, Rowain immediately switched to me. In other words, he tried both the plausible non-DP candidates without success before moving onto DP at the end of the day. Compare his play to mine, and think it through.

I think you are the bad guy, but if you are NOT, then you know it is either me or Rowain. What I am saying is that, whatever your feelings on me, Rowain makes more sense. Adrien is saying that too. So there is some food for thought.
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ALso note that Rowain was angry at the end of Day 3. He seemed really pissed, not just before DP swung but after it too. This is his post when he switched back to DP:

(February 8th, 2017, 03:35)Rowain Wrote:
(February 8th, 2017, 03:17)Gazglum Wrote: So, Rowain, has your voting experiment run its course?
What makes you think it was an experiment and not a honest vote?

Why are you pushing Psilly towards me when some hours before you acknowledge that scum put me and Lewwyn up for a reason.

But all in all I'm quite unhappy with the play some people have shown.
First Jabbz with his stubborn clinging on "Rowain attacked me Rowain is scum" despite several peope telling him he overreacts. Culminating in the absolutely bizarre "Rowain is scum because he prefers to lynch Psilly instead of getting him modkilled" attack. And finally the "I'm so poor and misunderstood"-selfvote.

Then DP101 with his play. Obviously he wants to get lynched, he is screaming lynch me with every post. I see little sense in denying his wish. If he is town then yes we lose but I would count that as a game with 3 town vs 4 scum right from the start. If 2 out of 5 towns are unwilling to play then we had never a chance. If he is scum then hurray at least those that remain are so far playing.  

DP101

DP had a tough gig in the spotlight, and perhaps could have played it better, but that's not a reason for town to be angry at him. Rowain went through with the successful lynch of a wolf sounding bitter, which makes more sense for someone let down by his teammate than it does for someone moving towards a town victory.
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(February 11th, 2017, 05:32)Gazglum Wrote: DP had a tough gig in the spotlight, and perhaps could have played it better, but that's not a reason for town to be angry at him. Rowain went through with the successful lynch of a wolf sounding bitter, which makes more sense for someone let down by his teammate than it does for someone moving towards a town victory.

At the time I made the switch it was 2 votes DP and 2 votes Gazglum. Strange that DP did have no inclination to switch to Gazglum at this time?

Dear Glum you know full well that sitting on 1 name all day long is not town-play. Afterall we need to find a 2nd scum so why waste a whole day by not hunting scum? you and adrien are both guilty of this. I tried to find the 2nd scum and I think I did.

Why were you so happily lynching Jabbz on Day1? I was struggling with him trying to get him to reconsider and jabbz wanted to play he would have gone of the hook (at least not gotten my vote). You OTOH voted him early and in the end you said you are happier on Jabbz compared to DP. That the point where Lewwyn screamed scum at you.

Day2 scum couldn't risk anything and hoped that I and Lewwyn fight giving them the mislynch needed.

Scum Rowain would have voted DP - who as I pointed out has screamed lynch me in nearly every post - right from the start not looked elsewhere. I would have tried to get cover not to stick out for a lost cause.
But look who played so: you gazglum - you played everyday exactly as I would play as scum. Take the easy lynch day1 for D2 couple two dangerous townies with a third to hopefully get a fight and an easy target later and on Day 3 vote the lost cause early, look if there is a chance to get a mislynch else rely that "I voted mr clear scum early so I can't be his buddy" sways enough people to win.
It also fits with today - you need to survive today as lynching Psilly tomorrow will hand you the win. of course you find my posts boring especially when I'm talking to Adrien because you fear he gets swayed and you are dead.
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BTW Wasn't it you dear Glum that pushed the idea that Psilly has to be the 2nd scum early on? You started the groundwork that Psilly pushing DP to 2 votes was absolutely safe because in your mind it was clear 5 votes on Jabbz (which there weren't). You made the huge post with why Psilly is scum to set up tomorrows lynch. But to reach tomorrow you need to survive today.
That's also why Psilly was left out tofday.
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This is fun! I am starting to wonder a bit about yo uRowain, which livens up the day.

(February 11th, 2017, 05:57)Rowain Wrote: But look who played so: you gazglum - you played everyday exactly as I would play as scum. Take the easy lynch day1 for D2 couple two dangerous townies with a third to hopefully get a fight and an easy target later and on Day 3 vote the lost cause early, look if there is a chance to get a mislynch else rely that "I voted mr clear scum early so I can't be his buddy" sways enough people to win.
It also fits with today -  you need to survive today as lynching Psilly tomorrow will hand you the win. of course you find my posts boring especially when I'm talking to Adrien because you fear he gets swayed and you are dead.

So you now think that I am actually the last wolf? You have been very ambiguous in your statements the whole game, but a little while back you said that you thought Psilly was scum and i your second-pick, but now you write like think it is me?

Going through you again, I still think it is more likely Psilly, but that you are more plausible than I had thought before, so I feel it is well worth to push you as a backup case.

(February 11th, 2017, 05:57)Rowain Wrote: At the time I made the switch it was 2 votes DP and 2 votes Gazglum. Strange that DP did have no inclination to switch to Gazglum at this time?

DP was very obviously delaying to see what he should do at the end. His holding off does implicate me a little, yes, but he knew he was going down anyway.

I thought about the timing of your switch, and its true that if you are scum, you had an opportunity there to convince Psilly to stick on me and then win the game that way. But DP was so obviously more scummy than me, and Adrien had said the same, that ScumRowain would be really blowing his cover by doing that. ESPECIALLY when DP had basically stopped playing by that point. SO that is a reason for you to be angry at DP, because his lack of support meant that you couldn't credibly push me when he was, as you say, basically screaming 'lynch me'.


(February 11th, 2017, 05:57)Rowain Wrote: Dear Glum you know full well that sitting on 1 name all day long is not town-play. Afterall we need to find a 2nd scum so why waste a whole day by not hunting scum? you and adrien are both guilty of this. I tried to find the 2nd scum and I think I did.

I agree in principle, although in DP's case I was SO sure that I saw no reason to shift. But that hunting around idea is why I moved off Lewwyn near the end of Day 2, and why I wasn't that bothered with you voting me Day 3. WHat confused me is that you were aggressive in your Day 3 questioing of me, and said at the end that you thought that Adrien and I were the scum (what?). You never explained why.

At the start of this game, both you and Adrien gave me strong town leans. I feel like I have played the whole game the same way. What changed to make me scummy? And what about my play made you think you had 'found scum' in me at the end of Day 3?

(February 11th, 2017, 05:57)Rowain Wrote: Why were you so happily lynching Jabbz on Day1? I was struggling with him trying to get him to reconsider and jabbz wanted to play he would have gone of the hook (at least not gotten my vote). You OTOH voted him early and in the end you said you are happier on Jabbz compared to DP. That the point where Lewwyn screamed scum at you.

I voted him early because it is good town play to vote for your suspects. I know that you like to hold off, which is your perogative, but if everybody played the way you do then it would be a lot harder for town to do anything because there would never be pressure or a paper-trail.

I said I was marginally happier on Jabbz than DP because I agreed with you - Jabbz was unfairly characterising your point against him. Emotionally, also, Jabbz had fooled me last game and I unfairly lynched DP as well, so I'm sure that played some level of subconscious reason in my decision to reverse them now. I was happier on Jabbz, and I think it was a fair place to be, and I don't give you scum points for voting him either. But now you say its scummy that I voted the same way you did?

I was uncertain at the end, and asked Lewwyn if he thought Jabbz was town. I was considering both cases right up to deadline, you dind't mention DP at all at the end.

You haven't accused me on my Jabbz vote so far, why bring it out now? Did you think it was scummy at the time?

(February 11th, 2017, 05:57)Rowain Wrote: Day2 scum couldn't risk anything and hoped that I and Lewwyn fight giving them the mislynch needed.

You keep saying this, and whatever you alignment it is a bit egotistical to suggest that your epic rivalry would make it too dangerous for you to nominate against him. ANd it doesn't make sense anyway, because you WERE nominated against him and neither of you attacked the other one at all. Lewwyn had already called you solid-gold town on Day 1, so why should he turn against you over Adrien or self-voting on Day 2?

What he did was self-vote for town, which you are refusing to do yourself today.

(February 11th, 2017, 05:57)Rowain Wrote: Scum Rowain would have voted DP - who as I pointed out has screamed lynch me in nearly every post - right from the start not looked elsewhere. I would have tried to get cover not to stick out for a lost cause.

But look who played so: you gazglum - you played everyday exactly as I would play as scum.

Well, who can say what you would or would not do as scum. I am a bit tired of you using it as an argument. You kepe saying, basically, "I may be a bit scummy but its not the way I would play as Scum Rowain".

I think any decent scum player would at least test the waters to save their partner. I certainly would. But I agree with you that it might very well have been tempting for Rowain to bus DP harder, which is why I think it is more likely that Psilly is scum.

But all your posts the whole game are variants of "why would I do this as scum?" Who knos why you would do anything, but re-reading you it is clear that:

> You have been very reluctant to openly state who you think the scum are
> when you have stated, you have at times said that is it is me, Adrien or Psilly, without allowing yourself to be pinned to any of them
> Your voting record is poor
> You are unwilling to bow out for Adrien's final day, even though it makes Adrien's job harder
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(February 11th, 2017, 06:28)Rowain Wrote: BTW Wasn't it you dear Glum that pushed the idea that Psilly has to be the 2nd scum early on? You started the groundwork that Psilly pushing DP to 2 votes was absolutely safe because in your mind it was clear 5 votes on Jabbz (which there weren't). You made the huge post with why Psilly is scum to set up tomorrows lynch. But to reach tomorrow you need to survive today.
That's also why Psilly was left out tofday.

I did push Psilly early, and I'm comfortable with it. I have been consistent. You seemed to rule out Psilly early on based on his DP vote, but then later said that he was probably the scum, without explaining your change of mind.

Psilly was always going to be left out today.

> If Gaz is scum, he has to mislynch Rowain today and kill Psilly tomorrow
> If ROwain is scum, he has to mislynch Gaz today and kill Psilly tomorrow
> If Psilly is scum, he has no chance of surviving two days so he has to keep himself alive today
> If Adrien is scum, leave Psilly out and watch GAz and Rowain go at each other for the lulz

You are scrabbling for content if you think that Psilly being left out implicates me over anybody else.
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