[SPOILER] Asoka of the Vikings (Nakor & Gaspar)

[Ellimist]

If there is any unit gifting, explicit terms that those units are never used against the gifting player

What? You don't want to get slazed?

[Gaspar]

What? You don't want to get slazed?

I was actually thumbing through the PBEM2 lurker thread last night, and got to the part where Darrell nearly got slazed, which is what made me think of it. I would like to neither be slazed nor Darrelled in this game.

[novice]

I would like to neither be slazed nor Darrelled in this game.

Sliced and diced, then?

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Sliced and diced, then?

Slazed as a verb. I dig it. After PBEM17, though, I think we can now coin the term being "noviced."

[Nakor]

Thanks for the banter, guys!

I agree on your added clausules, Gaspar.
Let's add:
1. No use of gifted units on the "builder"
2. 20T NAP after the war ends.

I like Plako's idea of a forum to discuss. We do need Luddite in, don't know about Rego.

[Gaspar]

Well, well, well...

Hi Gaspar/Nakor,

If you're serious about thinking we're miles ahead of Locke, then maybe you should check the tech screen again... because you're completely and utterly wrong there. Last I checked, Locke was up on us by Archery (103), HBR (430), Machinery (1207), Alphabet (517), Philosophy (1380), Liberalism (2415), Construction (603) = 6655 beakers. He's only behind us by Theology (862), Aesthetics (517), Literature (345) = 1724 beakers. That's nearly a 5000 beaker lead. Even without free Nationalism he'd still be about 2000 beakers in the lead. So, how exactly are we ahead of Locke in the tech game?

I also find it bizarre that you'd talk about us being so far ahead in tech when you're pretty much at par with us. We're 4829 beakers up on you, and you're 4414 beakers up on us. Basically we're both even in tech, and Locke is about 5000 beakers ahead of both of us. How exactly am I the far-and-away tech leader that you seem to claim? Once again, the facts prove you wrong. Perhaps you're looking at outdated info or something, I don't know.

You mention that "I'd also argue that your neighbors don't hold a candle to ours in terms of strength", but again, you don't seem to actually be looking at the actual facts. Have you actually checked the power graph recently? Our three neighbours (Luddite, Plako, Rego) are far and away the three top dogs in power. To suggest otherwise is just silly and completely false. That's why we're stuck with the land we've got - due to those power spikes all around us. Once again, I wonder a bit if we're playing the same game here, since you keep coming up with all these bizarre untrue arguments.

You're right that there probably isn't anything much either of us can do to help Adlain out, as he's pretty much a goner regardless. I thought you'd at least be interested in the news though, as it's rather relevant to you with Locke as your immediate neighbour - hence why I passed on the information.

As for city numbers with Locke consuming Adlain - let's look at the facts here. He's already past 20, and has room in his own backyard as well as to the northern jungle for at least another half dozen cities, probably more. Then Adlain has 9 cities, which are very loosely spaced so there's room for at least another half dozen more in there when properly settled. So I quite easily count past 40 cities once Locke's overpowered Adlain. Not sure how your math doesn't arrive at the same result. Check out the map and see for yourself.

Locke won't have to pause for long after consuming Adlain and securing control over the game. (Yes, he'll be by far the dominant civ by that point - my money's on it. Not much I can do, he just got lucky with Adlain as his neighbour.) Comparing to Plako's pause after consuming WK doesn't make sense because we're talking about two different periods of the game. In the early game we all know it takes a long while to recover from a war, even a successful one. However, later in the game, a player's economy bounces back much more quickly from a war, so they can be ready to jump up and fight another one in very short order. Locke will be in a much better position to continue warring after consuming Adlain than Plako was after warring with WK - there's really no comparison. Writing him off as a non-threat while talking like we're some massive threat just seems bizarre and backwards to me.

You say "Regarding EPs, basically at this point, you're going to win going away", which is completely untrue and reeks of false justification to me. We're nowhere near any decent chance of victory. Locke's ahead of us in tech, others (including yourself) are at par with us in tech, our three neighbours have the three strongest armies in the game, and recently we've been getting the diplomatic cold shoulder all around (and apparently now from you). In what universe do we have this game in the bag? Please stop with these untrue claims.

Overall, as I'm reading this, the tone of your message seems in general to be verging on hostile, while the content of your message consists of you making excuses for that hostility - most of which are bollocks, and I think you probably know it. So regarding the espionage situation between us, I'm going to be frank with you. Continuing to throw pretty much all your espionage against us every turn is clearly an overtly hostile move. There's not really any other way of spinning it, much as you seem to be trying. And hostile moves (both covert and overt) are completely against the spirit of our NAP.

Don't pretend that the reason you're spending so many EP's on us is because we're "interesting" - your entire message up to that point is fairly hostile, and I'm not fooled. I know as well as you do that information gained through espionage can easily be passed on to others - in fact that's exactly what you came to us about a while back. (Sharing information on Plako/Locke/etc. Which we are actually still working on gathering so we can share it with you - or so I thought. It's difficult to continue doing so when you seem to have taken a turn towards active hostility on the espionage - and apparently diplomatic - front, though.)

Basically, my perspective on your latest message is that for some reason (our temporary score lead?), you've decided to stop being friendly with us, and instead are trying to find excuses to justify switching to hostility despite our NAP and pre-existing friendship. I sincerely hope that hasn't been your intention. Aside from anything else, in the process of doing this you're completely ignoring the other major looming threats in this game.

I hope we can resolve this situation without any further hostility. You've been a good friend all game, and we're hardly the only big fish in the sea. I'd be quite glad to return to our former friendly relations and work together with you more. But that clearly isn't going to happen if you insist on spiting us by spending your EP's in such an overtly hostile manner. I hope we can work something out.

Kind regards,
Lord Parkin

First thought, does this guy have a job? Jesus wept that makes Roland look downright terse. And since I'm on the job, thought I might give a shot at translating this one:

Hi Gaspar/Nakor,



Kind regards,
Lord Parkin

[Gaspar]

Another turn...

And really nothing in it. Moved the units. Hindu Missionary from Crossing is on a boat back to the mainland for Greenland. Everyone is building universities, wish we could whip a bit more.

I'm not going to count beakers with LP, we're relatively close to even with him, Locke's a bit ahead of us. Pure tech rate, I think its LP then Us then Locke.

The point that LP is obfuscating is he *has* built every wonder in the game. He is about to knock out Taj Mahal and jump into a MoM-fueled GA. He does have 25 cities peacefully. And he is a pompous ass. Let him fester on his silly message for a day or two then I'll explain to him the part where I'm not stupid.

[Nakor]

I agree, Gaspar! Let him sit on it for a while.
What bothers me most is that when Plako was in the lead (scorewise) he kept pointing fingers at Plako and telling us (maybe everyone) to attack Plako. Now that he is in the lead (scorewise) he's pointing away from himself.
Own up to it, please!

Looked in the game and ended turn.
We can take EP's off LP next turn to get tech visibility back on the others.

Things are looking awfully quiet in our corner of the world.

[Commodore]

Rar! Too quiet! Need blood! I thought you were the burn-down-civilization Vikings, not the peacefully-colonizing-Greenland Vikings!

In a less bloodthirsty vein, very entertaining reporting, keep it up. "Hates heart I stab at thee" motivation aside, is there any Lord Popinjay land you're actually targeting?

[Gaspar]

Rar! Too quiet! Need blood! I thought you were the burn-down-civilization Vikings, not the peacefully-colonizing-Greenland Vikings!

In a less bloodthirsty vein, very entertaining reporting, keep it up. "Hates heart I stab at thee" motivation aside, is there any Lord Popinjay land you're actually targeting?

Um... our capital is called Greenland, so I think we very much are those sort of Vikings, or at least have been to this point. I'd like to see us burn something down before all is said and done, though. As far as what of LP's land we're targeting - there's really a limited amount we could realistically hold. If we did attack him, there's pretty much a couple of cities that could be easily integrated in the Crossing II/Broccoli Pie region, and that's about it. Here's a shot of that area. In particular, Leo, where we were en route to planting before getting beaten to the spot (still blame plako for that) would make a fine addition to the empire. With Galleons, we could easily fork both of those cities. My map knowledge isn't entirely up to date in the area, but I suspect he has another city behind Leo as well. Might have to arm-wrestle plako for that one.



I did the turn stuff, nothing really to do, though the governor loves those windmills. I don't, so we're working cottages instead. Nothing else really, quite little going on. I slipped a spear from the capital over towards No Good to provide MP. Civics swap is up next turn but we really have no need for Caste right now, no specialist are or should be being worked, that can wait until after the unis are done. We have a cottage economy, it is what it is. We probably have another 20T of Civil Service before we have to go Vassalage for the build up. Probably have to micro to time builds so they complete in vassalage, since losing CS with Oxford in the capital by then will hurt, so if we can minimize it to every 5 turns, that'd be great. Can't wait for PP to come in, that will be a nice boost to the tech rate. Shame its our last good economic tech for a while, but one has to do what one has to do.

Hrm, I thought we had OB with Moogle but I guess we don't. Hardly matters with this many civs in the game, though it may be relevant later, when we lose all of LP's trade routes. Adlain is currently researching Compass but doesn't have Civil Service yet. Just thought I'd mention that. Also, Locke drafted approximately 8 billion maces. He does have Machinery, so protective crossbows would prove a tough nut to crack, except, y'know...



For the love of God, Adlain, build some crossbows.

Anyway, didn't end turn, but I think everything is done.