WW 45: I'm an Illegal Alien

[Rowain]

What he did was self-vote for town, which you are refusing to do yourself today.

Really that's your argument?
Because it means you as scum win the game plain simple. Why aren't you selfvoting?

Scum Rowain would have voted DP - who as I pointed out has screamed lynch me in nearly every post - right from the start not looked elsewhere. I would have tried to get cover not to stick out for a lost cause.

But look who played so: you gazglum - you played everyday exactly as I would play as scum.

Well, who can say what you would or would not do as scum. I am a bit tired of you using it as an argument. You kepe saying, basically, "I may be a bit scummy but its not the way I would play as Scum Rowain".

Anyone who has played as many games with me as you did. Didn't you call my posts to Jabbz as "Pure town-Rowain"?

> Your voting record is poor

Your voting-record is worse. You were on Jabbz early on without looking anywhere else. You were on DP early on without inspopecting anything else. We both lynched Jabbz and DP but contrary to you I was searching for scum and explored you OTOH did it not.

> You are unwilling to bow out for Adrien's final day, even though it makes Adrien's job harder

Why Again why should I selfvote if I believe you have a high chance to be the final scum? What great day would Adrien get if he gets lured by you into lynching Psilly and letting you win? I don't see your selfvote anywhere.
But I offer a deal: if Adrien & Psilly swear that they will lynch you tomorrow and not Psilly I happily selfvote.

[Gazglum]

Why Again why should I selfvote if I believe you have a high chance to be the final scum? What great day would Adrien get if he gets lured by you into lynching Psilly and letting you win? I don't see your selfvote anywhere.
But I offer a deal:  if Adrien & Psilly  swear that they will lynch you tomorrow and not Psilly I happily selfvote.

Woah woah, where did this come from? This is like the fifth time you have apparently changed your beliefs. 24 hours ago you said that your suspect list was Psilly > Glum. Now you say that you would rather see me lynched than Psilly?

What has changed? WHAT HAS CHANGED? WHy is it impossible for TownGlum to have concerns about TownRowain? You're acting like we're in a 1v1 at the end of the game. I'm telling Psilly that if I am wrong on him, then he is wrong on me and he should look at you. It's fine for you to debate that, obviously, it's fine for you to deny it, but to say that it makes me the last scum is throwing the damn game.

I'm now seriously split on you and Psilly. You are making inconsistent posts about who the scum is and just attacking anybody who attacks you back. You are doing nothing to help the town lock down the final scum.

I don't want to self-vote for the same reasons you claim - because I am town. That is why I wanted it to go to the closest thing we have to an agreed neutral arbiter - Adrien. I will vote for whichever of us Adrien prefers, and he prefers to vote for you. If he said me, I would and will self vote.

But I'm not seriously asking you to self-vote. If you're scum you obviously shouldn't, and if you're town it's fair not to want to. I am laying out my case for Psilly and Adrien, who are choosing between us. I have received a lot of accusations of being scum this game, backed by -nothing-. Nobody puts a case against me, nobody has evidence to point to except that I voted Jabbz Day 1, because yes, you had the right and towny side of that argument.

I can point to half-a-dozen inconsistent or scummy posts from Psilly this game, and I have done that and I have been doing that for 2 days, with very little help from you. And yet you think I am now the Number 1 Scum and Psilly is innocent, because why? I lay out my reasoning why town is -marginally- better off lynching you than me today?

I am constantly trying to see things from your POV. I backed you to the hilt against Jabbz and said you were right on him, and right to mislynch him. I have assumed that you are town and attacked Psilly, and vice-versa I have assumed that Psilly might be town and reached out to him just in case, so that Town doesn't throw the game by us getting into a nasty 1v1. I have given you a big pass this game for the way you lash back at anyone who attacks you, because I know it feels bad to be accused of scum when you are not. But you seem like you would rather throw the game than engage with the possibility that someone is wrong on you, even when I say that you are my SECOND CHOICE.

And finally, it is a serious mischaracterisation to say that I only locked in on Jabbz and DP this game. I held steady votes against both of them because they were my top suspects and I wanted to see them swing, but I have gone in hard against Jabbz, DP, Lewwyn, Psilly and you. That's every single player except Adrien. Who have you tried to pin to the wall except me, now, and only when we are in a tie.

[AdrienIer]

This is Psilly getting into your heads guys. Good job Psilly.

Seriously why would Gazglum put himself with us two today ? He knew that the two people who had voted for him the day before would likely do it again. Why not put Psilly in there, have him lynched, and then hope for me to side with him on the last day ? It makes no sense.

[Psillycyber]

Adrien, if you all think that I'm scum getting into all of your heads today, then it shouldn't matter who gets lynched because I will just be lynched tomorrow.

Overall, I see that Gaz has made some logical points, but the way he is twisting Rowain's words and actions reeks of motivated reasoning to save himself.

I still find it hard to discern that a town-Gaz might be having second thoughts that I'm scum, and yet that's where town-Gaz would need to be mentally in order to explain why he feels that it is so imperative to lynch Rowain today. If Gaz is still pretty sure that I'm scum, it's no big deal Gaz, just take the fall. Protesting like you are suggests to me that you have been arguing against me in bad faith.

Gaz, you've paid some lip-service to the idea that I'm not scum because otherwise you can't really justify the urgency of voting for Rowain today, but you haven't really laid out a convincing case of why I might be town. I'm still waiting for that. Otherwise, I can't believe that your attacks on Rowain today aren't self-motivated.

Gaz's temporary pivot onto Rowain on Day 2 didn't feel very authentic before, and now I think I understand why: Gaz had to feign some suspicion of Rowain at that point (even though I didn't see anything too objectively scummy about Rowain's play at that point) because Gaz knew that, with the likelihood of Dp101 going down on Day 3 and needing to execute the strategy of not nominating me on Day 4 (which would secure the scum victory as long as Gaz could survive that day), he needed to make sure to be able to convince me against Rowain. Because Rowain voting defensively against Gaz + me voting against Gaz would spell doom for Gaz, and it didn't look likely that a case could be made for a vote on Adrien instead, so Gaz had to start laying the groundwork for the Rowain case so that the urgent need to suddenly lynch Rowain didn't look like a motivated-reasoning curveball coming out of nowhere.

Finally, re-reading a bit just now, the Day 3 voting seals the deal for me. At a certain point in the day, the vote was:
2 - Dp101 (Adrien & Gaz)
2 - Gazglum (Rowain and me)
Not voting: Dp101

We know that Dp101 was scum. Therefore, if Gaz had been town, then Dp101 would have known that, and this would have been the golden opportunity to save himself, jump onto the Gaz lynch, and get a mislynch of town-Gaz! That would have straight up won scum the game. But Dp101 didn't do this. The only reason that scum-Dp101 would have hesitated to vote Gaz in this case is that Gaz was Dp101's partner. Youch! Quite uncomfortable for scum to scum to have both of them as the frontrunners on Day 3. I do feel sorry for Dp101 here, as this was probably a tricky situation to handle.

Conversely, this scenario makes no sense if you assume Rowain + Dp101 were the scum pair. In this case, why would Rowain switch onto Dp101 and seal the deal for lynching his scumbuddy, when Rowain could have just reminded Dp101 that, hey scumbuddy, you know that you can just save yourself and vote for poor Gaz, and we can win the game, right?

At that point, it looked plausible that my vote would stay on Gaz because I was OK with lynching either that day, and I said that I would switch my vote back onto Dp101 only IF a Gaz lynch didn't look possible. And indeed, shortly thereafter, Rowain moved off Gaz and onto Dp101. Only after that did I move my vote off Gaz onto Dp101. At the time of Rowain moving his vote, it still would have been the simplest thing in the world to just get Dp101 onto Gaz instead.

Also, you can't say that scum wouldn't put both of their votes on the same lynch to as to not arouse suspicion for future rounds when it popped up that Gaz was town. Of course they would in this case! It was Day 3. They could have won the game outright. Reputations in future voting days would be irrelevant in that case.

This seals the deal for me. And the fact that Gaz wouldn't see this (because I believe that town-Gaz is a very astute player who would pick up on the blaring inconsistency of Rowain and Dp101 both being scum on Day 3) reinforces in my mind that Gaz is determined to not see, or at least not mention, this uncomfortable fact about the Day 3 voting. Otherwise, a proper town-Gaz would see all this, know that Rowain couldn't possibly be paired with Dp101, and at least be considering voting for Adrien today. But nope. Gaz is scum, y'all.

[AdrienIer]

From my perspective this post by Dp can explain any inconsistency with his voting.

This is why I wasn't voting, because town would unvote whoever I voted.

I see it as the post of a depressed scum who truly believes what he says.

[Gazglum]

Dear Lord, I am done. I hang today (presumably), you hang tomorrow Psilly.

What you either don't understand, or pretend not to understand, is that I am holding on to two possibilities at the same time. The most likely - that you are DP's partner. The second that it might be Rowain, and you and I need to work together with Adrien. I don't need to 'prove' you are town, because a: that's not my job, it's yours, b: I don't particularly feel that you are, and c: I don't need to believe it. We have two shots, so we should get rid of the two most likely scum players.

Saying that it's no big deal and I should take the fall is saying that I should just take you as scum. Because that is the scenario where it doesn't matter. If you are town, it does matter, because you die tomorrow and my team loses.

I understand perfectly all the points you make about Day 3. Since you'll need to reverse them tomorrow, you should then say that DP was playing in such a way that there was no way Rowain could plausibly stay on him without exposing himself as a likely partner some hours before deadline, which would lead Adrien and me to finger them as the duo, likely convince you to return to DP, and leave Rowain exposed going into the final two days.

If you are town and believe that I have played scummily, I am genuinely at a loss for what to say to you. But the only person I am trying to communicate with is Potential Town Psilly, and its looking like he doesn't exist. So best of luck tomorrow.

[Psillycyber]

I see it as depressed scum grabbing hold of a rationalization that he knows is crummy for a decision that he finds unavoidable yet possibly detrimental to his team.

[Psillycyber]

(Crossposted with Gazglum. My previous post was addressing Adrien's interpretation of Dp101 on Day 3).

[Rowain]

Seriously why would Gazglum put himself with us two today ? He knew that the two people who had voted for him the day before would likely do it again. Why not put Psilly in there, have him lynched, and then hope for me to side with him on the last day ? It makes no sense.

So Scum-Gazglum would not put himself up but scum Rowain surely does it? Not only once but twice? In your mind I would happily risk a fight with Lewwyn (which would make me look very shady) and set myself up to be lynched on D4 with both you and Gazglum? Care to explain the logic behind that?

Woah woah, where did this come from? This is like the fifth time you have apparently changed your beliefs. 24 hours ago you said that your suspect list was Psilly > Glum. Now you say that you would rather see me lynched than Psilly?

What has changed? WHAT HAS CHANGED? WHy is it impossible for TownGlum to have concerns about TownRowain? You're acting like we're in a 1v1 at the end of the game. I'm telling Psilly that if I am wrong on him, then he is wrong on me and he should look at you. It's fine for you to debate that, obviously, it's fine for you to deny it, but to say that it makes me the last scum is throwing the damn game.

Your play today. And do note that while I wanted to lynch Psilly before you you were still mentioned as getting lynched (contrary to Adrien)

I lay out my reasoning why town is -marginally- better off lynching you than me today?

No you were not laying out reasoning. You were directly attacking me.

[Rowain]

Dear Lord, I am done. I hang today (presumably), you hang tomorrow Psilly.

If you are town and believe that I have played scummily, I am genuinely at a loss for what to say to you. But the only person I am trying to communicate with is Potential Town Psilly, and its looking like he doesn't exist. So best of luck tomorrow.

If you believe that Psilly is town why are you upset about my offer?
And if you believe that town-Psilly doesn't exist why are you upset that he might hang tomorrow?