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SevenSpirits Wrote:Last turn, Luddite sent us a snide note about cancelling our trade routes. (I think he thought it would hurt us more (probably true when you factor in the free specialists he gets), and that's why he did it.) I think that marks the end of our good relations. So this turn I cancelled our rice and open borders, and asked yuris if we could trade a musical for HIS spare rice. Luddite is surely up against the health cap, so this should be irritating for him. I also asked Commodore about trading for his wheat, which is currently being rented out to Luddite for 10gpt (or so Commodore said). He said that he was open to negotiations in 5t (as Luddite has already purchased it for that long) and would check if he needed happy (i.e. musicals) or money more. Luddite has started building factories, and he's not expansive, doesn't have hanging gardens, and has fewer health resources than us. So I expect health to be kind of important to him.
The treatment strikes me as amusing, although it struck me as more snarking about how everyone went into mercantilism and therefore the extra trade routes must not be worth much. I did the math and, actually, we'll lose around 2 commerce before multipliers per city. (We have a few inland cities, but a few cities also make 3+ commerce per route for all their routes.) That's going to add up. So no, we do still get to feel bad about obsoleting the lighthouse. Just... it won't be quite as much of a loss as otherwise because we already lost that.
Quote:End of turn, we got a great engineer. Yay! Two possible uses:
a) ~1650 beakers of industrialism after we research assembly line. I.e. a bit under one turn of research (since it doesn't get the 1.2 multiplier).
b) 589 hammers into a wonder (pentagon or three gorges dam) I.e. about 4-5 turns of Barad-dur production.
I think we should use it on a wonder. (Those two effects are incredibly strong.) And I think researching Industrialism/Plastics will take like 7t so better to construct Pentagon manually and then get the Dam in ASAP after Plastics. Sound good?
Agreed... We're starting to unlock a bunch of wonders again, and these are important wonders. I would totally trade an engineer for getting the Pentagon, since other people have had time to consider sinking hammers into it. (Luddite probably hasn't, though.)
On the other hand, looking at your research estimates, yeah, just being industrious reduces wonder competition, and Barad-Dur is about as ridiculous as you can get for wonder building, but if we can get it done before Plastics comes in anyway... the dam is worth a lot more.
Either way, saving 4-5 turns of production in one city, IMO, will be worth more than shaving off a single turn of research.
Edit: Also, it's really tempting to joke about building The Internet with spare hammers (as if there were such a thing...) to get those techs we skipped like Democracy, Priesthood, and Theology. 
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Played 134.
Ending turn lost us $42/turn, so obsoleting the lighthouse must have cost more than that. I know we gained at least $8 from Edoras growing into a scientist so actually it's at least 50.
I've almost figured out our every-turn airship recon plan. I marked most of the scoutings on the map with signs. Next turn I think we should follow those signs and then figure out where to recon with the remaining ones. (Also, some of the signs might be imperfect.) Airships reveal an 11x11 square around the tile you recon, btw. Kind of ridiculous.
T135 should be simple; we're still waiting for Assembly Line. T136 we revolt to slavery and start factories everywhere (except Numenor!). T137 we whip them all (well, except Barad-dur which a) we don't whip and b) will have already finished it anyway), and then swap to caste/theo.
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One nitpick in your plan... you need 5 turns between civic switches, unless CR changes that. I hadn't realized you hadn't activated Slavery when you activated Organized Religion. (I think I considered that implicit.) You're proposing a 2-turn stint in slavery.
Other than that, I look forward to seeing the recon setup. 
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Ranamar Wrote:One nitpick in your plan... you need 5 turns between civic switches, unless CR changes that. I hadn't realized you hadn't activated Slavery when you activated Organized Religion. (I think I considered that implicit.) You're proposing a 2-turn stint in slavery.
Other than that, I look forward to seeing the recon setup.
Oh yes, it does. We can swap civics every turn.
It actually used to allow you to do multiple swaps per turn. That was insane - (can draft/slave/rush-buy every turn, workers are always 50% faster, and you still end every turn with maximum economic bonuses).
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SevenSpirits Wrote:Oh yes, it does. We can swap civics every turn.
It actually used to allow you to do multiple swaps per turn. That was insane - (can draft/slave/rush-buy every turn, workers are always 50% faster, and you still end every turn with maximum economic bonuses).
... I don't remember noticing that in the documentation for it. *looks* Oh; there it is. Huh. That still feels broken, and possibly a little cheesy. There's a reason the spiritual types don't get that, I thought. 
On the other hand, that would explain why a spiritual leader (who gets it with a +100% production bonus) would want it other than for GPP.
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Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Hopefully it was worth getting an early radio for.
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SevenSpirits Wrote:Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Hopefully it was worth getting an early radio for.
What else were we going to do? Get Corporation first?
Yeah, I agree. Hopefully, it will turn out to be worth it.
BTW - you have remembered to start the Eiffel Tower in Barad-Dur before Edoras completes it, right?
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Eiffel tower is 1t from completion in bd, you can probably finish it if you grab the save  (I'm out right now.)
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Played 135. We got $559 in failgold for the Eiffel Tower. Also finished Assembly Line using purely overflow (but still at 100% of course). I figured out the last airship positions and moved one of them into foreign territory. Next turn we'll have vision of every city on the map, and most tiles.
TODO next turn:
1) Factories! Queue them up everywhere except Numenor, which doesn't want one (unhealth, and won't get power from the Dam).
2) Tech! Let's get Priesthood. That way we'll get Industrialism in one turn, the turn after, and it will be a wonderful surprise for everyone. Plus, we might want some cheap happiness buildings that also give free hammers.
Btw, foreign tech update: GES has gotten Physics and half of Electricity (we now have tech visibility on him). Commodore has gotten Optics. Yuris has gotten Railroad. Lots of great people are being born.
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OK, new problem. Looks like GES might be working on the Pentagon. Alpine has 322 hammers invested into something, and it's been going up by 76/turn. Assuming it's the Pentagon, he needs 7 more turns of production left to complete it (it's 837h). Ballast Point has 291 hammers invested into something and is going up by 70h/turn. So if he's building it there, he needs 8 more turns. And stone has 130h invested, and is making some about less than or equal to that per turn. So worst case it's 6t there, but I think that might be largely overflow. (Since Alpine seems like a pessimistically representative site, I went with using it as the target to beat for the rest of this analysis, even though it's probably building Wall Street...)
However, he can also rush it early. I think he's got forge/factory/coal plant/OR, for hammer multipliers totalling 2.25. This means each pop point when slaved is worth 20h base * 1/3 (penalty for Pentagon) * 2.25 = 15h. I.e. he can get max 120h from slaving in his size 16 city, which gains him at most one turn. Nothing to worry about there.
Cash-rushing is more dangerous. if he was willing to spend 2.5k gold, that would be 277h or so, which means he only needs to get Pentagon to 560h, which he can probably do in 3t. That's 4t from now, i.e. we'd only get 3 production phases ourselves to compete. Why did I pick these numbers? Because I think we can get Pentagon straight up in four turns, which beats anything short of a 2.5k gold rush!
Next turn (136) we don't start a factory in Barad-dur; we start on pentagon right away instead. Also, our civics swap is simply to Bureaucracy. That turn, we have 29 overflow and make
(29 + 56) * 360% = 306h into pentagon.
Turn after (137), we swap in free speech / slavery and whip all our factories elsewhere. Barad-dur makes only 53h this turn because of no caste system.
(53) * 310% = +164h -> 470h
Turn after that (138) we swap back into Caste.
(56) * 310% = +173h -> 643h
Finally on the fourth turn (139) we swap into Bureaucracy again:
(56) * 360% = +201h -> 844h out of 837
Make sense? Then we can build a factory after that, and an aqueduct, and then plastics is in and we rush out the Dam.
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