AT loves it when a plan comes together!! [Spoilers]

[AutomatedTeller]

On war weariness: We get none. Weariness only applies when you are fighting in areas you don't have cultural control over - you never get weary fighting in your own land. he's gaining some - not a lot, yet, but once we have a major battle, he'll see the effects.

If we take Horizon, we'll get a lot of weariness - taking a city makes people unhappy, and SoZ makes 'em more unhappy. We should still do it, of course I mean, we are charismatic - we can handle a little stinking weariness!!

We do have another spot North of V we can get, plus some land on the peninsula. The big problem is that Commodore has been expanding unimpeded and has a lot more cities than us. That's also his thing, of course.

I don't remember what I have us on - I think it's guilds, at 7 beakers a turn. I was assuming that we would get HBR from Jowy.

I certianly see why he brought the workers with him - I just don't see why they are still there....

[MindyMcCready]

On the workers,...is it 3 turns to road or 2? If 3 turns to road then I guess that will have to do, we probably can't afford 6 workers. If its 2 turns to road, then we really need 4 workers as that will give our stack a range of 3.

That last worker could be the difference between saving Magnum PI and losing it.

[MindyMcCready]

Some more thoughts - depending on what he does, we maybe can kill the small stack - sac a cat, which will do damage to an elephant, decent collateral on both the other elephant and the axe. Mace/lbow/chariot can clean up after.

Please don't go after that stack yet. We need those units for the Battle of the Fork. Also, Jowy may hold up his stack to let them catch up. Those 3 units are a liability to his chances of killing Magnum while they're alive.

On navy - interesting point - he can't slave in units. 2-4 maces in galleys should be able to take his cities. I'm thinking a galley in NCIS and one in BJ and the bear. an upgraded WIII dog and a the mace i'm just making, plus maybe a couple more. Might have to do the 2nd galley from CHiPS, though.

What's your timeline on this? I'd like to land Horizon and plant SSSWWW of LALaw before that. The threat level from galleys is so much greater if we had those cities. And both of those are available for minimal hammer investments. Also a stack WW of LALaw can provide zone defense for both of those cities.

Lastly, if we get lucky we could raze a core city or two but we couldn't keep them. So the hammer investment sets Jowy back but doesn't move us forward.

I am quite happy to go raze horizon - hard to believe we could keep it, though we could try. obviously, that depends on what happens, too.

Normally I'd agree that this would be fool hardy to try to hold this city but:
1. Protective LBs and Pikes for us and no Machinery, no maces for Jowy.
2. Jowy's not going to have much an army soon.
3. Stack can provide zone defense for 2 cities west of LALaw
4. Jowy is forked. If he consolidates to a stack he's going to leave other cities wide open. If that occurs we abandon Horizon in favour of razing a core city.
5. We have a religion and Stonehenge. If he can't react early, which he probably won't have the army to do so, then we should gain cultural control in a reasonable time.

[MindyMcCready]

On war weariness: We get none. Weariness only applies when you are fighting in areas you don't have cultural control over - you never get weary fighting in your own land. he's gaining some - not a lot, yet, but once we have a major battle, he'll see the effects.

I didn't know that's how it worked. Good to know.

I don't remember what I have us on - I think it's guilds, at 7 beakers a turn. I was assuming that we would get HBR from Jowy.

Haha, nice. The price for peace is your demise. Hit Girl approved!

Before the end of the day I'd like to hear what your plan is. My preferred route is:
1. Conserve all military for the Battle of the Fork T143 start.
2. Destroy remainder of stack if applicable.
3. Capture/negotiate peace for Horizon.
4. Plant city SSSWWW LALaw
5. Make peace (optional)
6. Begin building navy/military for a 10-turn redeclaration.

How does that sound to you?

[MindyMcCready]

More thoughts:

If we can, keep the catapults hidden. Jowy might make a move for NYPD Blue if he doesn't feel imminent danger. That might help save Magnum. I'm just so curious if he's going to offer peace any time soon. He might not realize his danger. Any of his units Sentry?

BJ and the Bear - does that have any defenders? If a HA shows up will we lose the city? If the Trieme is keeping watch I guess the granary is ok.

Maoi - I don't think that we can hold Mindy's Maoi if Cornflakes gets frisky. BJ and the Bear is a more secure location once we've thumped Jowy.

You have a Woody III Dog down south right? What does the Trieme tell us about if a WIII mace could catch a city unprepared. Jowy might just be defending with spears to fend off a 2 mover attack. He's also unlikely to chop forest down there I would presume,...

[AutomatedTeller]

This is a great discussion, btw


Any naval attack is quite a ways away - we don't have any galleys and none in production and BJ and the bear doesn't even have a food source yet, and there's significant travel time. My guess is 5-10 turns.

He can kill magnum with his large stack the turn after he moves next to it and there's nothing that we can do about that. Even moving our stack in LA Law there might not save it, without walls and a hill.

Horizon - I guess I meant that we can't hold it with chariots, and I don't think we can spare the LB's it would take to get it, at least not right now.

Small stack - to me, it really depends on where he's going - if that small stack is around LA Law, then it's holding units in place that we can't use against the big stack. I agree that killing the large stack is a priority - if we can kill the small one first without really impacting our ability to kill the large one, I'm up for that. A bigger question will end up being whether we try to kill the large one before it has a chance to kill Magnum, i think - that depends on what he does.

[AutomatedTeller]

he doesn't have sentry on any units, which I don't understand. I would definitely 1 or two sentry chariots. he might put it on one once he moves further in, i don't know.

[MindyMcCready]

Yeah Jowy's a strange one. He certainly came prepared military hammer-wise. Everything else

Yeah, this has been a good discussion.

Next discussion, post Jowy's invasion stack, will be drawing up invasion plans and where our future lies. If you could, please post more updated pics of the maps (I'm pretty out of date) Jowy's land, our border with Cornflakes and the jungle north of Jowy that TT shares. Also, Jowy's border with Commodore.

Thanks. I've got to get some work done now. I'll try to comment on the weekend if you're posting.

[AutomatedTeller]

This is the image from the blockade, with current garrisons. Note that Noveria is empty.



We could put a galley on the red rectangle with a mace and a pike (say) and land on the red diamond, then take Noveria the next turn. I don't see what he could do to stop that, unless he had more units he's not showing. We would need a galley and units, but it could be done in a few turns.

Something to think about.


I'll get better maps of lands tonight, after the turn rolls.

[MindyMcCready]

Did I mention that I'm a Thor fan? Some Thor quotes are coming to mind:

"Odin's eye! What maddness transpires here!",..."Verily, tis beyond belief",..."it passeth all understanding".

Whew. Dude we need to deal with this stack, whip out galleys and go take his capital. Honestly, we might lose 8 cats + 2 or 3 units in the Battle of the Fork, meaning that we'll have the remainder of our army to deal with him. Seriously, let the rest of his units wander about uselessly in our territory while we relieve him of his core cities.

Better is 1N of the clams. We can fork both the capital and Noveria from there. He'll get an extra turn of warning but be less able to do anything about it. 2 galleys + 4 maces (like you said) should do the trick.

Really we should be able to keep whatever we take since we'll be a dozen units up on him and coming from all directions and fending with a tech advantage.

I think that you need to take BJ off of infrastructure and onto military. A military investment now could propel us to top position land wise at very low cost. And all of these cities are profitable with a lighthouse with our Colossus.

I think that we need to put together a REAL turn-by-turn plan excuting everything because the payoff could be just so huge.

Man, I was sure that Jowy would collapse upon a counter attack, but this is just ridiculous. My biggest fear now is that Commodore swoops in and takes our prize.