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[No Players] Where the Lurkers Take Their Holidays

They loaded fine for me as well.
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
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Rough plan of attack:

1) Add hills and mountain ranges.  Edges need more general hills and the center needs to turn into a series of valleys and ranges
2) Balance green-ness of surrounding areas.
3) The center:  series of valleys and ranges, sparse in food but scattered "oases" - either in resources or food
4) Balance strategic resources to ensure access to copper/iron/horse.
5) Balance luxuries with a minimal touch
6) Quick pass at marble/stone
7) Final touches

I'll try to post a map after each step, though 4-6 probably get combined into one post for that.
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player
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Also, with dreylin's sugar now being a cow, is moving his capital 1E not worth losing the 2h plant? Seems like I should move the gems
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player
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RE : Dreylin
moving is also still a T0 plant so he could be seriously considered it for his pick.
It would be nice for him (and other that have a ressource outside but visible) to know relatively soon if it will be still there or not so they don't have to sim/guesstimate several situations before picking Civ/leader ?
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Pretty sure I'd move if I had Dreylin's start; you only lose the plainshill, as the banana lost the forest. Still not an easy trade, as you trade foodhammer snowball for future teching.

Another option is ofcourse to keep them but under jungle, but then you need to take treat them as calendar-resources for lux balancing.
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

I think I have the mountains and general greenness set.  If you have a chance please take a look at the worldbuilder file and comment.

Link to world builder file:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AoD3LrzhKrtJhdlOw67r...g?e=NeKqOg
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player
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I'll have a look at it tomorrow (or rather, later today). Happy new years.
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

It looks like there's still a one-tile astro island down (at 9,2) near the bottom left corner of the map; I assume that's not intended. There are also three isolated plains forests (two hills, one flat) near the middle of the continent, each completely surrounded by bone-dry desert (at 39,33 and 54,31 and 58,33) which seem aesthetically off (but my aesthetics might not match yours).

As for balance, ignoring resources for now, I think the grassland distribution might still be too skewed toward the northeastern ("Inca") and eastern ("Egypt") civs (even with the jungle near the latter complicating things) especially in comparison with e.g. the north-central ("Viking") and southernmost ("Persian") civ. (Other comparatively dry starts seem to have easy access to floodplains.)

I like what you did with the mountains!
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I've taken a quick look, will spend some more time on details later.

Here's an overview, with the player starts marked:



I've run the map through Novice's balance tool, and here's the highlights:
Player 0: Cyrus of Persia: 259 land tiles. 18 421,8 total land quality.
Player 1: Augustus of China: 270 land tiles. 19 764,1 total land quality.
Player 2: Suleiman of Zulu: 281 land tiles. 17 958,7 total land quality.
Player 3: Sitting_bull of Babylon: 162 land tiles. 15 004,5 total land quality.
Player 4: Mehmed of Inca: 147 land tiles. 13 027,2 total land quality.
Player 5: Darius of Rome: 250 land tiles. 19 443,2 total land quality.
Player 6: Joao of Greece: 335 land tiles. 20 914,4 total land quality.
Player 7: Louis_xiv of Japan: 223 land tiles. 14 117,2 total land quality.
Player 8: Franklin_roosevelt of Viking: 276 land tiles. 15 874,3 total land quality.
Player 9: Ramesses of Egypt: 226 land tiles. 18 472,0 total land quality.

I'd take the values here with a heavy grain of salt, due to how much "bad" land there is to claim. However, I do think that especially start 4 might get hemmed in by 6 and 9 and could use perhaps a tad more land to the east. Start 7 looks to have less immediate green land then others as well.

Full report in spoilers.
Total map unfairness (standard deviation in weighted land quality): 7905

Player 0: Cyrus of Persia
259 land tiles.
(52 grass, 158 plains, 49 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 77 forests, 0 jungles, 8 flood plains, 1 oasis. 86 hills.)
18421,8 total land quality.
62,24 average land quality.
484,5 total food potential.
1,64 food per non-ocean tile.
429,0 total hammer potential.
1,45 hammers per non-ocean tile.
441,5 total commerce potential.
37 coastal tiles.
72 ocean tiles.

10 strategic resources (1 oil, 2 copper, 4 iron, 1 uranium, 1 horse, 1 marble).
2 happy resources (1 gold, 1 spices).
16 food resources (4 cow, 3 corn, 2 sheep, 3 wheat, 3 crab, 1 deer).
17 health resources (4 cow, 3 corn, 2 sheep, 3 wheat, 3 crab, 1 deer, 1 spices).

Player 1: Augustus of China
270 land tiles.
(79 grass, 130 plains, 61 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 76 forests, 8 jungles, 14 flood plains, 1 oasis. 88 hills.)
19764,1 total land quality.
61,00 average land quality.
713,0 total food potential.
2,20 food per non-ocean tile.
423,0 total hammer potential.
1,31 hammers per non-ocean tile.
590,5 total commerce potential.
54 coastal tiles.
183 ocean tiles.

15 strategic resources (2 oil, 3 iron, 2 horse, 3 uranium, 2 copper, 1 coal, 1 stone, 1 marble).
4 happy resources (2 sugar, 2 whale).
20 food resources (2 sugar, 2 rice, 2 fish, 3 wheat, 2 pig, 3 sheep, 3 cow, 2 whale, 1 corn).
18 health resources (2 sugar, 2 rice, 2 fish, 3 wheat, 2 pig, 3 sheep, 3 cow, 1 corn).

Player 2: Suleiman of Zulu
281 land tiles.
(76 grass, 125 plains, 80 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 76 forests, 0 jungles, 0 flood plains, 5 oasis. 99 hills.)
17958,7 total land quality.
55,95 average land quality.
442,5 total food potential.
1,38 food per non-ocean tile.
439,0 total hammer potential.
1,37 hammers per non-ocean tile.
387,0 total commerce potential.
40 coastal tiles.
48 ocean tiles.

14 strategic resources (4 copper, 1 oil, 1 aluminum, 2 coal, 2 horse, 1 uranium, 1 ivory, 1 stone, 1 iron).
8 happy resources (3 incense, 1 ivory, 1 whale, 3 spices).
15 food resources (5 wheat, 3 cow, 2 sheep, 1 deer, 1 whale, 1 crab, 1 corn, 1 clam).
17 health resources (5 wheat, 3 cow, 2 sheep, 1 deer, 1 crab, 1 corn, 3 spices, 1 clam).

Player 3: Sitting_bull of Babylon
162 land tiles.
(59 grass, 82 plains, 21 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 63 forests, 0 jungles, 7 flood plains, 0 oasis. 35 hills.)
15004,5 total land quality.
72,49 average land quality.
1004,0 total food potential.
4,85 food per non-ocean tile.
208,0 total hammer potential.
1,00 hammers per non-ocean tile.
721,0 total commerce potential.
45 coastal tiles.
432 ocean tiles.

9 strategic resources (2 horse, 2 copper, 1 coal, 1 iron, 1 marble, 1 uranium, 1 aluminum).
1 happy resources (1 silk).
16 food resources (3 fish, 5 corn, 2 clam, 2 pig, 2 sheep, 1 wheat, 1 cow).
16 health resources (3 fish, 5 corn, 2 clam, 2 pig, 2 sheep, 1 wheat, 1 cow).

Player 4: Mehmed of Inca
147 land tiles.
(66 grass, 76 plains, 5 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 51 forests, 0 jungles, 0 flood plains, 1 oasis. 44 hills.)
13027,2 total land quality.
67,85 average land quality.
991,5 total food potential.
5,16 food per non-ocean tile.
235,0 total hammer potential.
1,22 hammers per non-ocean tile.
739,5 total commerce potential.
45 coastal tiles.
460 ocean tiles.

7 strategic resources (2 horse, 1 marble, 1 copper, 2 iron, 1 oil).
4 happy resources (3 wine, 1 gold).
14 food resources (1 wheat, 2 sheep, 3 corn, 3 cow, 2 clam, 1 crab, 2 fish).
17 health resources (1 wheat, 2 sheep, 3 wine, 3 corn, 3 cow, 2 clam, 1 crab, 2 fish).

Player 5: Darius of Rome
250 land tiles.
(77 grass, 131 plains, 42 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 78 forests, 0 jungles, 0 flood plains, 1 oasis. 92 hills.)
19443,2 total land quality.
66,36 average land quality.
927,0 total food potential.
3,16 food per non-ocean tile.
449,0 total hammer potential.
1,53 hammers per non-ocean tile.
714,0 total commerce potential.
43 coastal tiles.
373 ocean tiles.

19 strategic resources (2 oil, 1 coal, 4 aluminum, 3 iron, 2 uranium, 2 horse, 2 ivory, 2 copper, 1 marble).
6 happy resources (2 silk, 2 ivory, 2 spices).
17 food resources (5 cow, 3 sheep, 2 crab, 3 rice, 1 wheat, 1 corn, 1 deer, 1 fish).
19 health resources (5 cow, 3 sheep, 2 crab, 3 rice, 2 spices, 1 wheat, 1 corn, 1 deer, 1 fish).

Player 6: Joao of Greece
335 land tiles.
(44 grass, 192 plains, 99 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 92 forests, 0 jungles, 11 flood plains, 2 oasis. 109 hills.)
20914,4 total land quality.
58,10 average land quality.
548,0 total food potential.
1,52 food per non-ocean tile.
551,0 total hammer potential.
1,53 hammers per non-ocean tile.
499,0 total commerce potential.
25 coastal tiles.
112 ocean tiles.

21 strategic resources (4 copper, 4 horse, 2 uranium, 3 iron, 3 ivory, 2 oil, 1 aluminum, 1 marble, 1 coal).
6 happy resources (1 spices, 3 ivory, 2 silk).
11 food resources (3 wheat, 4 cow, 2 fish, 1 deer, 1 corn).
12 health resources (1 spices, 3 wheat, 4 cow, 2 fish, 1 deer, 1 corn).

Player 7: Louis_xiv of Japan
223 land tiles.
(62 grass, 66 plains, 95 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 47 forests, 1 jungles, 10 flood plains, 6 oasis. 54 hills.)
14117,2 total land quality.
52,09 average land quality.
891,0 total food potential.
3,29 food per non-ocean tile.
249,0 total hammer potential.
0,92 hammers per non-ocean tile.
624,5 total commerce potential.
48 coastal tiles.
356 ocean tiles.

14 strategic resources (3 iron, 1 coal, 2 marble, 2 ivory, 2 copper, 1 horse, 2 oil, 1 stone).
5 happy resources (2 dye, 2 ivory, 1 silk).
11 food resources (1 crab, 1 banana, 2 clam, 1 rice, 1 pig, 2 fish, 1 cow, 2 wheat).
11 health resources (1 crab, 1 banana, 2 clam, 1 rice, 1 pig, 2 fish, 1 cow, 2 wheat).

Player 8: Franklin_roosevelt of Viking
276 land tiles.
(36 grass, 134 plains, 106 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 69 forests, 0 jungles, 9 flood plains, 4 oasis. 106 hills.)
15874,3 total land quality.
51,71 average land quality.
482,0 total food potential.
1,57 food per non-ocean tile.
432,0 total hammer potential.
1,41 hammers per non-ocean tile.
447,0 total commerce potential.
31 coastal tiles.
112 ocean tiles.

13 strategic resources (2 oil, 3 coal, 3 copper, 1 horse, 2 iron, 1 aluminum, 1 marble).
7 happy resources (5 gold, 2 wine).
13 food resources (2 cow, 4 wheat, 2 crab, 2 corn, 2 pig, 1 clam).
15 health resources (2 cow, 4 wheat, 2 crab, 2 corn, 2 pig, 2 wine, 1 clam).

Player 9: Ramesses of Egypt
226 land tiles.
(97 grass, 85 plains, 44 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 58 forests, 21 jungles, 7 flood plains, 0 oasis. 57 hills.)
18472,0 total land quality.
67,91 average land quality.
1211,5 total food potential.
4,45 food per non-ocean tile.
271,0 total hammer potential.
1,00 hammers per non-ocean tile.
910,5 total commerce potential.
46 coastal tiles.
515 ocean tiles.

11 strategic resources (2 aluminum, 3 iron, 2 stone, 2 horse, 1 oil, 1 copper).
13 happy resources (3 silk, 2 gold, 3 gems, 5 dye).
17 food resources (5 wheat, 3 cow, 2 rice, 1 pig, 2 banana, 3 corn, 1 fish).
17 health resources (5 wheat, 3 cow, 2 rice, 1 pig, 2 banana, 3 corn, 1 fish).

Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

Frankly, greening a dozen tiles at 7 and adding land in that "scoop" between 4 and 9 would get this map to player-ready.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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