RB Pittboss #1 - SPOILER - Washington/Carthage

[ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF]

First, let us take a look at the glorious Carthagian Empire:



As you can see, I have four cities; the three I had at the time of the last update, and a new border city claiming horses on my near side.
If you have keen eyes, you might notice there is a partially built road towards this new city (Hanno). I had committed three workers towards building it, and had the movement plans all worked out (I was quite proud of this worker management), and the road would be complete, except for one thing:

[Indent=1]
These aren't AIs I'm playing against.
[/Indent]

Ruff of Borg captured two of my workers (which were on the same tile) at an opportune moment when my escorting warrior was slacking off. I will go into more detail about our exchanges when I tackle the foreign situation.

Without ado, we can look at my cities.



Carthage is in production mode for now - you can see that its cottages are being worked by another city. This way, I can retain speedy settler production, while not sacrificing cottage growth.

You can also see that I am running 0% research. Partially, this is to save up gold until I have my Academy (although I won't run 0% all the way until then), but also, if I run binary research, I want the cottages to be worked by Carthage when I use 100% science, to get the library bonus, but it doesn't matter which city works the cottages.
This means it makes sense to run 100% cash when Utica takes control of the commerce tiles.

Finally, it is currently 16 turns from cultural expansion. I have a slight feeling that my gain of land across the channel by cultural means will annoy dsplaisted, but there is nothing to be done about that. I am more looking forward to the added visibility, giving me an early warning system against a naval attack from that direction.



Here we can see that the city has the potential to work both of Carthage's cottages, while still maintaining the 5-turn-worker production. This means, despite my loss of two workers, I will be able to improve tiles at a decent rate.

Next, let us look at Hadrumentum:



Can you remember what this city was like 13 turns ago? It had no buildings or tile improvements, and one citizen. Look at it now! A library, a granary, loads of food, and several deforested tiles. Next turn, once it has grown to size 4, I will hire two scientists to generate a Great Scientist. The remaining food and citizens will go to my military might - first barracks and stables, and then the magical whip will turn my people into horses! Even with the two specialists, there is enough food surplus to run a few mines and poprush from time to time.

At last, my new city:


The first thing to notice is, I am working a grassland forest, and not the cow which the governor would have chosen. Why? Because I have a chop arriving in 3 turns, and this gives the quickest completion of the Granary.

The second thing to notice is, this city only has one worker. :gripe:
I'll send another one soon, which will complete the road, and start chopping the forests here. The second worker will also facilitate hooking up the horses in 2 turns instead of 4.

[LiPing]

Thank you for the overview

[Rusten]

Great spoiler thread! Your way of updating is very good. Not that I actually have anything to compare it with, I didn't read any of the other threads, I'm following this game as a regular Carthage citizen. More exciting this way and it has the advantage of not having to be as careful about what I say.

I had committed three workers towards building it, and had the movement plans all worked out (I was quite proud of this worker management), and the road would be complete, except for one thing:

These aren't AIs I'm playing against.

Ruff of Borg captured two of my workers (which were on the same tile) at an opportune moment when my escorting warrior was slacking off.

Priceless. That hurts, but I'm sure you'll bounce back.

Looking forward to another "remember what this city looked like 13 turns ago" for Hippo. Oh wait, you lost your workers. :neenernee

[Rusten]

Since you seem to be taking MM very seriously;
-How come you didn't chop (and farm) the plains silk in Carthage instead of the tile 1N of it. It would give you an extra commerce when producing your settlers. Was it a simple lack of worker turns or a different reason?

The last update is a bit 'dated' now though, so maybe you've already done something about it.

Edit: I see now that Utica is also working a non-riverside mine over a riverside one (but no mine on the tile) so that indicates that it's due to limited worker actions indeed and not something fancy.

[sooooo]

I had you down as my favourite to win until you settled that crazy site in the north and blundered away two workers (who were roading to said crazy site).

[Mortius]

I had you down as my favourite to win until you settled that crazy site in the north and blundered away two workers (who were roading to said crazy site).

This happened, when someone is too much dedicated to the initial plan. I assume you have planed Numidian rush pre start and now you are doing everything to execute it, nomatter the conditions. It happened to me all the time

Several thoughts:

1. Your land is good and you have space to expand - no need to rush anyone.
2. Your horse is too far, and I feel you wasted a lot of potential trying to plant and connect it, not to mention two stolen workers.
3. I would understand this move if you had no metal, but copper is near.
4. Even if the attack would be succesful, the true winner would be rego not you. He would take a bunch of good land with your hands, doing absolutely nothing. Even worse, he would be expanding, while you punish your citizens to whip Numidians.
5. And the probability your attack would fail, means you are already dead.

Sorry, but the attack seems for me like a loose-loose situation for ya.

EDIT:
I forgot the phants
6. After Construction your Numidians will be jumbo's food.

[ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF]

Wow! A lot to respond to in one day!

Since you seem to be taking MM very seriously;
-How come you didn't chop (and farm) the plains silk in Carthage instead of the tile 1N of it. It would give you an extra commerce when producing your settlers. Was it a simple lack of worker turns or a different reason?

The last update is a bit 'dated' now though, so maybe you've already done something about it.

Edit: I see now that Utica is also working a non-riverside mine over a riverside one (but no mine on the tile) so that indicates that it's due to limited worker actions indeed and not something fancy.

The simplest answer to your first question is, I simply didn't think of farming the silks seriously.
The more complicated answer is, I had plans to get 4 chops in 2 turns with just two workers, so as to complete Stonehenge in 1 turn (since I have no idea what date the AI on this level usually builds it , I didn't want to risk having my forests turned into gold.) I could have replaced the plains hill chop with the plains silk tile, and still been able to do it - so this looks like a good point.

I had you down as my favourite to win until you settled that crazy site in the north and blundered away two workers (who were roading to said crazy site).

Losing the two workers definitely hurt (and still does). I have enough (and the capability to build enough) to get by, but I no longer have the extra hammer or food just when I need them, so my growth curve has been knocked back a step.

I'm not sure how good (or the somewhat Freudian typo "goof") settling the horse city was. My argument to myself was, I'll take the short term hit on my expansion curve, for the possiblity to draw the line in the sand on this border where I want it. I thought (at that time in my builder eyes), and still do (now because the tech pace is so fast, what with a 5-way alliance) that the growth hit wouldn't actually matter all that much - we are just trying to get ourselves into position for the lategame, not establish a clear lead at this point. Since my land-based neighbours are all steady allies (except for shady), I didn't (don't) think that a few turns' delay on reaching the late game will break the game for me.

I was also somewhat "dismayed", for lack of a postable word which really reflects my feelings, that there weren't any more accessible horses for me. This definitely influenced my actions.

If it all goes horribly wrong, at least I have a new name for the city. :D

This happened, when someone is too much dedicated to the initial plan. I assume you have planed Numidian rush pre start and now you are doing everything to execute it, nomatter the conditions. It happened to me all the time

Several thoughts:

1. Your land is good and you have space to expand - no need to rush anyone.
2. Your horse is too far, and I feel you wasted a lot of potential trying to plant and connect it, not to mention two stolen workers.
3. I would understand this move if you had no metal, but copper is near.
4. Even if the attack would be succesful, the true winner would be rego not you. He would take a bunch of good land with your hands, doing absolutely nothing. Even worse, he would be expanding, while you punish your citizens to whip Numidians.
5. And the probability your attack would fail, means you are already dead.

Sorry, but the attack seems for me like a loose-loose situation for ya.

EDIT:
I forgot the phants
6. After Construction your Numidians will be jumbo's food.

Did I plan a rush pre-start? No. Pre-start I wanted NCs to give me some military presence, but I didn't have any rush plans at that stage.
1. Yes, it is. Looking through my Builder's Goggles ™ again, it doesn't hurt to secure some more, at a short term cost. I have no experience of this sort of game, so I don't really know how the short-term/long-term balance works out, but my guess is that short term doesn't really matter all that much, because you can trade your way out of trouble. (As long as the 5-way tech group holds up, that is. I'm in no danger of being kicked out for being too slow; I still have the highest tech rate, I think.)
2. I'm not sure I follow you? Are you saying I could have settled it somewhere (in my backland) that gets more resources? If so, yes, I could, but all cities cost the initial settler and the workers to chop their forests.
3. Perhaps I am some distance from the truth, but I think horses are better than copper, as they allow 2-move units. The flexibility that allows is not to be under-estimated.
4. Frankly, yes. Rego comes out of this very well. There are some compensating factors, but this doesn't change this fact.
5. If my attack fails, am I really already dead? I could always go backs-to-the-wall, and really whip out the units. (atm, I am trying to leave my size 9 capital untouched) I'll cross that bridge when/if I come to it.
6. Yes and no. First of all, speed is of the essence, as I don't know when he will get construction. Secondly, my NCs will still have 50% withdrawal chance when attacking elephants, and since I can give them Mobility, I can disrupt his road network enough that the hills and forests allow me to just run around them if they try to come out of the cities and attack my units - if he holes up, I can either suicide, relying on my withdrawal chance, or choke him and come back with cats.

[Mortius]

I can either suicide, relying on my withdrawal chance, or choke him and come back with cats.

I run some numbers Phant vs Numidian:
Chance to win vs 1 unit 0.9962598614481551
Chance to win vs 2 units 0.8853326426858014
Chance to win vs 3 units 0.5863687555061632
Chance to win vs 4 units 0.29495000960563794
Chance to win vs 5 units 0.12209890638790881

It shows, you need 4 numidians attacking on the same turn to have more then 50% chance to kill a single phant. And even in this scenario in 1/3 cases the phant will win vs 4 numidians. A stack of 2 Phants are virtually indestructible. The 50% withdrawal chance doesn't really change things to your favor, as knocked down numidian is useless in attacking (in pillaging it can be stoped by a single archer or immortal) and you have no time and possibility to heal them.
With this odds you can't even choke effectively. The 8 tiles area around a single phant is your dead zone, and if he put single phants in the most importnant areas you can only trade 3-4 numidians for 1 phant or avoid it entirely.

On the other hand, I would be more than happy to see some action and you proving I am wrong

[Iamjohn]

So anything to tell us? How bad is it?

[ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF]

I guess, the attack on me means I should post an update. I will have screenshots soon, but first I must brief my allies on the miltary situation.

The short version is, I have been declared war on by shadyforce and dsplaisted. They have captured two cities - dsp by a galley attack out of the fog, shady using mounted units and assurances of good intentions (not an NAP or similar, though).

edit: For the short term, I will cease to act rationally, and instead show shadyforce what a bad idea it is to attack the person who is #2 in power. I have already captured one of his workers, and in about 2-3 turns, his lands will be flooded.