RB PBEM #2 Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

[T-hawk]

I'm following along too, so keep the updates coming.

I'm interested in your placement of the third city. Is sharing the pigs worth giving up both wines from the city radius? Do you plan another city on the tip to work the wines? How will that fit with an ivory city? Or would you claim the ivory by settling on the westernmost tip and connect it by fort over water?

[Square Leg]

Considering I walk by one of them every day, I'm ashamed at how long it took me to figure out your naming scheme.

Glad someone has picked up on it! I considered naming my units too - maybe once there are some more to think about! I think the Dog Soldier in my Capital has to be WG Grace!

I'm interested in your placement of the third city. Is sharing the pigs worth giving up both wines from the city radius? Do you plan another city on the tip to work the wines? How will that fit with an ivory city? Or would you claim the ivory by settling on the westernmost tip and connect it by fort over water?

You raise a valid point. The other choice is to found on the grassland hill. That city will have 2 wines, horses desert copper and a clams. Another very strong site. In my pic in the post previously I have put a city? sign there because I was considering the grass hill site also.

In regards to the ivory - I want a city on that island preferably for the trade routes although - building a fort and then camping some troops in it would be a faily strong move also.

Originally, the appeal of working the pigs straight away while Lords recovers from whip anger was appealing. If Lords won't be working the pigs then someone should be!!! I realise that I won't have culture in the city straight away either so having food on tap is also good.

I do like the Grass hill site also - quicker access to horses and the wines tiles are good too. Maybe I need to work on getting a super quick WB done for the clams and found the Grass hill...

I thin the turn will be with me shortly so I'll put some pics up then and think this through.

[Square Leg]

Good start - nice big picture!

I have decided to revise and go for the hill site for 2 reasoms:

Defence - can play zone defence at Zone A sign still and is on a hill. My archers - when i get them... are going to be difficult to dislodge.

Maoi - 10 coast and 1 ocean plus copper plus horses plus 2 forests to chop into it. Trent bridge is going to be a good hammer city in the end!

Zone B is to defend between The Oval and Lords and will be forted for sea access between the island and to hook up a spare silk.

Chat with Yaz:

16:21 Yaz: Hey
16:22 Did you get my email?
me: hello - I was just replying!
Yaz: yay
me: I'll do it here if you like?
Yaz: Whatever works for you
me: I reckon about 15t
16:23 maybe a little sooner but depends on maintenance when I found my next city... It gets a bit difficult to predict for me!
What is your eta for Monarchy?
Yaz: Don't know :P
16:24 Just about to figure it out
me: I proposed OB in game
Yaz: Yeah I accepted
me: cool
Yaz: Darrell is just opposite my capital atm, he declared war the bastard
16:25 me: ha ha - I'll send my WB through your cap
Yaz: k
I'm thinking I may be a few turns late on monarchy but not sure yet. This war is throwing things behind a bit.
16:26 me: No worries - when you can - we should check ets's again in 10t and see where we are.
Yaz: Agreed
me: What is the state of our NAP?
16:29 Yaz: I think it's expire but I'm not certain
16:30 I'd have to check my thread
16:32 me: Are you interested in extending if it has?
16:33 Yaz: I'm certainly not opposed to it I'm peaceful sort of guy when not attacked hehe
16:34 What were you thinking?
16:35 me: TBH anything is fairly nominal atm coz we are a long way away - t80?
Yaz: Actually our current nap is still in effect
It only started when we met, and was 20T from then
me: ah ok
16:36 need to do a post clarifying all my deals in my thread!
Yaz: Want to just put a 10T self renewing cool down period on end of it?
Or just leave it for now?
16:40 me: whatever - really 10t cool down works as it takes care of itself then
Yaz: k
signed
me: signed
16:42 cool - cya later!
Yaz: cya

nothing of real note here...

Oh - check the time on sailing! 4t - I had put 6t! I checked alphabet and it was 15t. I think I can grab sailing and still get alphabet in near enough 15t from now... hopefully! Foreign trade routes with yaz will help - might try and sign OB with Ruff too.

Chat with Krill:

15:49 Krill: dude
save is coming in 2 minutes
as a heads up
and Oracle is finished this turn
15:50 me: Nice work! I'll stop sending the intel then...
Krill: yup, thanks, and sooner you get Alpha sooner you get MC...
if you can reach me fast enough
15:51 me: I'll get there - don't worry!


6 minutes

15:57 Krill: uploading now
15:58 sent


9 minutes

16:07 Krill: hmmm
16:08 yo dude
you there? Got a quick question about the rules for this game


9 minutes

16:18 me: go on... Just been playing save...
Krill: You know this game has vassal states enabled?
me: yep
Krill: Well, first of all that has colony maintence, which kinda sucks, but that isn;t hte problem
16:19 It is technically possible to abuse vassal states to force an enemy stack to teleport
me: I know - we should have maybe voted for it in the set up...
Krill: I was wondering if we should ban the use of vassal states in game (ie by the ingame mechanism)
16:20 me: I see - the person A is at war with B so Vasselises to C teleporting B's troops somewhere...
Could also rig an AP win by getting a colony...
16:21 I can't see anyone wanting to use a vassel can you?
16:23 Krill: AI vassal is stupid
16:24 and really manipulating hte mechanics
at least imo
me: It works ok in SP but not in MP
Krill: so I think banning the in game use would be aok imo
heh
I hate the entire mechanics
basically most of them after vanilla I hate
16:25 me: Ep's... corporations...
16:26 Krill: yup
I like Vanilla minus the combat modell
take Warlords 2.11 combat model
and use that
but up cats to 50 hammers, and make charge use only combat 1, and siege isn;t brokn
me: I only really got into Civ proper after bts ;-P
Krill: ha
16:27 After BtS came out I didn;t die even even in a 3v1...
simply because of how flanking works
in MP
16:28 me: Do you think Dreylin was going for the oracle?
Krill: Yes
The way I figured it
he didn;t get any techs lined up afaict
in trade
and the only thing still open was MC
16:29 me: what the hell is afaict????
Krill: which would have ben good enough to get himself into the trades
as far as I can tell
in this case, it stands for could
just to make the tenses corect
me: I think he is going to be left out until round 2 at least
Krill: yeah
which kinda sucks for him - I can't see him being a hapy bunny
16:30 me: you lined up anything with ruff?
Krill: So you probably are going to have to deal with that one way or another
yes
I have now
it favours him, but I had all of that sorted before the war started
I don;t really want to favour one side or another in that war.
me: It should be fine as long as you don't go telling tales ;-)
Krill: Ah
16:31 that 3 week hiatus has kinda screwed with my memory
considering how much has gone on with RBPB3
that thing kinda took over my mind for a while
so I could have made mistakes, tbh
and if I hav, I will hold up my hands and unreservedly apologise for them
16:32 me: So what do you think you have said?
Krill: Hmm? To whom?
me: Dreylin
16:33 Krill: oh
I pestered him constantly
about when he was going to finish the Oracl
me: I meant that as long as you didn't squeal on me sending graphs to you
I'll be ok with Dreylin
Krill: ah
don;t worry about that
I won;t say a thing
if I do
I deserve to have made an enemy for life really
16:34 me: Cool - Dreylin is your next door neighbour
Krill: Hmmm
Just wondering....but do you want some sort of agreement to deal with his cataphracts?
16:35 You re on the same continent,
but I don;t want to be dealing with them off boats
me: I have something up my sleeve...
Krill: What, killing him befpore then?
16:36 me: Doubt it. I have spied some ivory...
Advantage of a wb scout!
Krill: er
WE don;t actually work...
me: how come?
Krill: technically speaking
16:37 They ust don;t get odds
*just
nothing gets odds on cataphracts
until rifles
or triple promo cuirs
me: Are they immune to siege?
Krill: not entirely, but hammer for hammer, pretty much, yeah
16:38 Basically you are like 40 hammers in hand for every WE you produce compared to a cataphract
wait
20 hammers
16:39 me: Just have to be friendly or slap him with WE BEFORE he gets to guilds...
Krill: so, like I said,killing him before guilds
16:40 me: we might be friends...
He might be more pissed at you for stealing the oracle! ;-)
Krill: Probably is
16:41 me: So - what to do... you boat him and I WE him?
Krill: Depends
16:42 I was just wondering if you were welcome with the idea of a mutual protective deal against Dreylin come cataphracts, but I'm also up for some sort of kill him and split hte lands deal
I'd be happy if you took all of his lands, and I got hte islands off the coast, provided the islands off the coast are decent
16:43 *his lands = you home island
16:44 me: I like this idea but i feel it is a conversation for in a few turns time. Lets see how we go and talk about "Operation Catafunk" in a bit. It is certainly a proposal I am up for though
16:45 Krill: yeah
ditto
at least we both know about it
16:46 me: Just so you know - I have a NAP with him until t80 so we will have to work around that. The idea is to settle freely for a bit and build up a good base - gonna need some resources to secure the phants yet.
Krill: I understand
16:47 I'm still stuck on 2 cities myself
although with the 2 wonders, could be worse...
me: I'll be up to 3 in a couple of turns
Krill: Nice
16:48 me: Gotta dash - good talk, see you out there.
Krill: cya around mate, nice talking with you

got a bit scared at one point that he was playing me against Dreylin! Not true though. I certainly don't want to commit to anything yet but clearing Dreylin out before he got to Cataphracts would be nice....

[Square Leg]

quick question for the lurkers - look at the map a few turns ago - If I have OB with Yaz - will I get trade routes once I have sailing? Even though ruff's land is in the way...

[T-hawk]

quick question for the lurkers - look at the map a few turns ago - If I have OB with Yaz - will I get trade routes once I have sailing? Even though ruff's land is in the way...

More specifically, Ruff's water is in the way. You will have trade routes with Yaz as long as you are at peace with Ruff. OB with Ruff is not necessary. You will lose trade routes to Yaz if you declare war on Ruff and don't have a clear trade path that does not go through Japanese land or water.

[Square Leg]

Thanks T-Hawk - I completed sailing on the inter-turn and am now getting 3gp trade routes with Yaz! Ha ha - I don't think he considered this when signing OB with me since he will be getting nothing!

Will found Trent Bridge next turn. Wish I could find some stone.... Building the Maoi somewhere is going to be a pain otherwise...

Alphabet in 12turns now!

So - instead of going straight for alphabet (it was 15t at the time) I can now get Sailing and Alphabet in 16t. Glad I decided to go that route!

I'd just like to comment on the Dreylin situation, first though, read this chat:

18:56 me: Hey Dreylin - you got some time for a quick chat?
6 minutes
19:02 me: I'll be to and from the computer for the next few hours so bump me when you're about.
7 minutes
19:10 Dreylin: hi
me: hey
I'm pretty lame at using the diplo window it seems...
19:11 Dreylin: I'm not sure what was up with it
hopefully I got it right!
me: hopefully! you have a little more experience though so no excuses! ;-)
Dreylin: Heh
19:12 me: With regards to techs - I have just switched to sailing myself
Dreylin: Ah, so not heading to complete Apha ASAP then?
*Alpha
19:13 me: I think the eta will only be out a turn or 2 at most since the trade routes are going to help loads...
Dreylin: Ah, true
19:14 me: Alpha should be done in 15 - 16t from now I'd have thought.
I am conscious that I haven't been able to line a trade up with you yet...
Dreylin: Well you're not the only one!
since I have no trades lined up
19:15 ... had been hoping to have MC to offer
me: really... :-(
Dreylin: yeah
me: Krill being ind has really pushed those wonders... I'm surprised he didn't try and grab TGL super early though...
19:16 I don't know what I can do with respect to trades... got most bases covered for the first round...
19:17 Dreylin: Well he's also set up well to grab colossus now
19:18 So Yaz is still going for Monarchy?
me: Yeah although he said it might come later than expected because of sparring with ruff
19:20 Dreylin: Well being frozen out of the first round of trades is certainly one way to encourage cooperation...
me: How soon can you get to Monarchy?
19:21 Dreylin: Probably before you get Alpha
(based on your 15-16t estimate
me: Ok - so the question is - do I go back on my word with yaz...
19:23 Dreylin: Well tbh, Monarchy's not a big priority for me
me: what is?
Dreylin: so if Yaz is still researching it, I'd probably just as soon go for something else
dunno
19:24 HBR maybe if there's trade value
(and no-one else is pursuing)
19:25 me: brb
Dreylin: np
11 minutes
19:37 me: Back - I know HBR is being done by someone else - Have you spoken to ruff at all?
Dreylin: not much, no
me: I certainly have no trades with him either. Don't kow about the others
19:38 *know
19:39 What about beelining another round 2 tech other than MC? Calendar maybe seeing as you are going for sailing now.
19:41 Dreylin: Would sort-of require me to have Maths first....
me: Darrell is going for that...
Dreylin: goody for him
but I have nothing to offer him for it, do I?
19:46 me: sorry - just thinking out loud. Iwould love to change away from sailing next turn and pencil something in but it makes a lot of sense to have sailing now I can get OB with people on another continent....
19:47 Dreylin: Well that's if they'll grant you OB
after all, they won't have trade routes with you
But I do understand
19:48 and I'm not trying to get you to change any deals you've already made
just pointing out that by making essentially pre-game deals
you (and many of the rest) have pre-empted game-situation diplomacy
19:49 effectively building yourself into a corner you may not have chosen
Of course I've done the same thing
by NOT arranging any trades while everyone else has
19:52 me: Absolutely - Would you like to discuss a different type of trade? I can trade techs for hammers...
You are IMP... I need settlers every now and then.
19:54 Dreylin: What sort of exchange rate are you thinking?
19:55 me: I have little experience here so lets discuss.
19:56 Lets work with everything on normal speed coz my head hurts otherwise.
Dreylin: agreed
me: A settler costs 100f/h
19:58 I would have thought that normally a ratio of 1-1 would favour the hammer side of things however, this is a hammer poor map
Which tech are you interested in? Alpha? 300 beakers on normal right?
19:59 Dreylin: Well I can tell you right now that I'm not paying 2-3 Settlers for a tech
20:01 me: Right - I realise that - writing is only 120 beakers.
Dreylin: at least at this stage of the game
yeah, but writing is a really easy tech to discount
probably like 3t reserahc
20:03 me: Alphabet would be 300beakers - 20% for having writing so like 240beakers - how about a settler and a galley.
Dreylin: I'd have to think about it
but my instinct is no
20:04 tbh, Alpha isn't really much use if I have nothing to trade to anyone else!
besides if everyone else has Alpha it's not really needed
20:07 me: Have a think and see if there is anything we can work out.
As silly as all this communicating is before meeting, I'd rather not go back on any deals I have already made.
So if we can sort something out another way - that would be really good.
20:09 Dreylin: sure

I don't think he was very happy and I did sort of rub it in a bit although not on purpose... honest. I felt quite bad about it and reacted by proposing some hammer - beaker trades. Hammers are scarce on this map so I would be interested for sure!

I have since received this mail that I am yet to respond to:

Hey SL,

I was just re-reading our chat before posting it and I thought I should start with a quick apology for my somewhat negative attitude and general unhelpfulness yesterday. I wasn't having a great day generally and that coupled with the disappointment of losing The Oracle had me at a low attitude to the game - not an excuse, but a reason. Anyway, feeling a lot better about things today, and I had a couple of ideas overnight.

Firstly, your suggestion of a hammer for tech deal is a probably a workable deal on this map type, but I'm not really sure that I can afford to owe you any more hammers right now without seriously hurting my own growth in the short-term; let's look at this option again later if we need it to make up for a beaker imbalance or something.

From what I can gather, the research goals currently look like:

SL: Alphabet
Yaz: Monarchy
Darrell: Maths
Krill: IW, HBR & MC (!?)
Ruff: ???
Me: ???

I'm intending to send a quick message to Ruff to try and discover what he's going for, but there seem to be two main options for me that wouldn't require one of the techs above as a pre-req; Aesthetics and Code of Laws. Both have their drawbacks, but it'll be a few turns before I can start on either so I can afford to consider my options before deciding. Would either of those be able to entice a trade from you?

Cheers,

Dreylin.

Need to think a bit and try not to stick my foot in it quite so much...

Back on the Alphabet note - Now I have a rough eta, time to start calling on some of those trades I have lined up.

I have also spied a potential power play. Pyramids with a GE from a forge from MC which Krill will trade me! Masonary is coming from Darrell. can anyone see PHI/REP

Not only that but the GE points will be really good for snatching wonders later on - maybe even moai - but we'll see. Or bulbing machinery if Ruff gets frisky... options!!!

[Square Leg]

Just sent the following:

Hey Dreylinian I,

Apology accepted although I completely understand why you reacted in the way you did. I don't think I helped the matter either so please don't be too hard on yourself. That said, I think we did make some progress and, like you say, a hammer - beaker trade is something I would be keen on; lets keep it in mind.

Your summation on tech goals is spot on. I have no idea on eta's for everyone else. I should have alphabet in ~13t though. Krill has certainly managed to get himself into a good position levering his IND trait in the early game.

Of the 2 techs you mention CoL would be preferable to me and I would certainly be looking to line up a trade for it should you go that route. Aesthetics also holds appeal although only for the wonders and epics at Literature... Again - I would be keen on trading although I don't value this tech as highly as CoL right now.

I understand that you will want some time to fish around for other deals on the above techs so take your time. I certainly don't plan on heading for either in the immediate future.


Cheers,
Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Caste system would work very well with my specialist economy...

Hi Krill,

Thanks for the email about your working times - 12h shifts sound like a bitch though!

I have an eta of 13t for alphabet so I was wondering on your eta for IW and HBR? We also have half the cost of MC to make up somehow so I guess we should talk about that also!

So here is what we currently have lined up: Krill - IW (200), HBR (250), MC (450/2 = 225) = SL - Writing (120), Alphabet (300) All at normal speed beakers as my head hurts otherwise! This leaves me in debt to you by 225. How would you like to make this up? I also have sailing that will knock 100 off the total and, with OB and defogging allow us lucrative intercontinental trade routes! Perhaps you would just like a discount on our next trade?

Let me know.

Cheers,
Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Krill should front me MC while we sort the rest out... will mean I can whip a forge and start on a GE for Pyramids.

Hey Darrell,

My bork boat is your side of Yaz's capital - any chance of some directions to come and meet you?

My eta for Aplhabet is 13t - will you be able to make the masonry + mono - writing trade then? I am also keen to get Maths as soon as possible, as i'm sure you are - will you be able to start it as soon as we trade?

Looking forward to sharing a fish with you soon!

Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Darrell will need the writing trade before starting Maths.

[Square Leg]

And a response from Dreylin:

Sitting Bull,

I had a long-ish chat with Ruff last night; he had the same info on the tech trades, and had also not committed to to a research goal. I floated the two options to him and he quite quickly jumped on the Aesthetics/Lit route ... which suits me fine - I'm going to take a break from tilting at Wonders. 9-)

So I've pencilled in Code of Laws as my trade-bait target; I don't have an ETA yet as there are still some pre-reqs I need to pick up, but I'm guessing it will be a few turns past when you get Alpha.

Oh, and I see the Great Lighthouse went last turn - I'm guessing Darrell's IND trait paying dividends.

Dreylinian I

I must start checking the log more often - ie every turn! I didn't notice the GLH falling although I did know Darrell was on the case. Good for him - I don't think I was ever well set up to compete for it so never considered going for it. The only way I am going to get wonders is with GE's I think...

So Ruff is going for aesthetics and Dreylin CoL - another religon for Dreylin that no soubt he will try and get in his border town with me... urgh!

[Square Leg]

I need to do a massive diplo update... No time like the present![SIZE="6"]

Dreylin:
[/SIZE]

Hey Sitting Bull,

Certainly I'm interested in Currency; who isn't? 9-)

I'd love to pencil in some sort of trade with you right now, but since I don't have a good ETA yet on when I could get CoL I really don't know whether it will be more in the second round or the first. I know that I keep on delaying actually signing a tech deal with you, but I'd like to get a better handle on the situation before making a full committment.

How does this sound as a compromise: if you do research Currency, I guarantee that I will trade for it from you regardless of who else researches it*.

*subject to a fair market value.

Regards,

Dreylinian I.

Hey SL,

Just to let you know that I received an e-mail from Darrell this morning which included this: "I currently have in my tech plans Polytheism, Masonry, Mathematics, Monotheism, Currency." I thought you should know since you'd mentioned grabbing Currency yourself - and I've committed to getting it from you if you do.

I was actually chatting with Yaz this morning about how inflexible the ultra-early negotiation of the 4(now 6)-way trade deal has made the game so far, and it came up that it was Krill & Darrell pushing for that. My comment at the time was that by driving the formatiion of the trade conglomerate, they got the first-pick of the research targets and got to control the rest of us to an extent ... and here's Darrell's message already staking claim to a 2nd-round tech!

Darrell & Krill have certainly leveraged their IND traits into an early lead this game (Krill's Oracle into MC-Colossus is clear, but also note how Darrell staked out not only Maths, but Monotheism very early in the game ... leaving himself perfectly set up to go after the Hanging Gardens), and with Yaz & Ruff somewhat crippling each other's early growth, that leaves us in the middle of the pack at the moment; I am even more convinced of your earlier conviction that we need to work together to ensure a good result for us both down the track.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough here I think!

Dreylinian I.

Hey Dreylinian I,

Thanks for the heads up on Currency. I can confirm that the first person to contact me regarding tech trades was Darrell. It was at that point that I decided on teching towards Alphabet since it would mean that the actual trading wouldn't begin until I was ready for it. Krill later contacted me but not for a little while - he mainly just nagged about playing the turn! ;-) I approached Yaz to try and line something up at the same time I started to try and negotiate with yourself. Yaz was relatively quick to jump to Monarchy. I didn't contact Ruff at all. This was perhaps an oversight however, there are only so many techs to trade for!

Having saved dosh for 2t I can now power home on alphabet in 10t, slightly quicker than I first thought. It seems that the others are going to reaching their trading techs a lot later than I will get to Alphabet.

Krill was obviously distracted by the bling and so was Darrell to a certain extent. My dealings with Darrell actually forced my hand with Yaz to a certain extent. When we were first discussing setting up a trade in chat, he accidentally wrote in a chat window he had with Yaz, what was meant for me. It pretty much disclosed our deal although I don't think my name was mentioned. He gave me the right to trade his techs as an apology.

The original deal we had was Writing - Masonry + Mono then Alphabet - Maths. This was obviously because he needed writing to research Maths. I received an email yesterday where he seems to have "forgotten" details. I am to front him writing and Alphabet while he researches Maths since "I have some trades lined up I can't make without Alphabet! " When I first read this i thought to myself - tough shit!

My response is going to be to remind of the deal we had and perhaps of his discretion with Yaz that allows me to trade Maths, Masonry and Mono. Please consider all of these techs "on the table".

Ultimately I think it leaves us in a situation where we need to co-ordinate and work together. I will still be teching towards Currency for round 2.

Like you, I have rambled on for too long now!

Cheers,
Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Sitting Bull,

Well it sounds like Darrell has conviniently "forgotten" that we've got full trading on, so as long as you've met both parties involved in the trade, you can act as middle-man between him and his trade partner to get the techs where they're needed. Since you'll have met pretty-much everyone soon, that should be no problem.

Actually, I expect to be relying on you to help me out in this way for the first round of techs, since my off-island exploration to-date has been fairly lacking ... for a small commission, of course!

I do expect to be trading CoL with Darrell for Maths & "something" ... with the something tbd later, but it's good to know that I might be able to pick up either Mono or Masonry from you, and changes my options a bit with him. Will you be getting Poly from Krill, and is there a clause on that?

10t for Alpha is pretty good, and I'm guessing that CoL will be a few turns behind that so I'll be a bit delayed having my tech available for trade and starting on the next. One option would be for me to then go straight for CS - it'd be a fairly long research, but would get us to Bureau quickly and give control over access to that civic.

Cheers,

Dreylinian I.

Dreylinian I,

Just tried to catch you in chat.

If I can act as a middle man then I am more than willing to help out, for a price of course! ;-) Nothing too much - we can discuss at the time.

I have no plans for getting Poly yet - I haven't even discussed it with Krill.

CS is a great tech to go for but I worry about the research time on that... It is also quite valuable beaker-wise and I notice you mention "but would get us to Bureau quickly and give control over access to that civic" Do you envisage that I would front you techs/Gold while you persue CS?

Let me know your thought's. Like I have said from the beginning - I really think that this map has been designed to create conflict on the starting islands. If we can rise above that we should be in a good position.

Cheers,
Sitting Bull of the Natve Americans

Sitting Bull,

Sorry; off getting lunch at the time you pinged me.

You noticed the "us" then; I thought I'd slip it in there and see if it took.... 8-) Actually, I was just throwing CS out as an idea; you're right that it would probably be a long research, but I'm the first who could start on it and then is anyone going to want to duplicate it at that point? I hadn't got as far as thinking about bridging the tech gap between CoL trading & CS trades, but the first round should see me set for a little while.

I don't think I was looking at anything like a tech alliance yet, but we could certainly look at striking a deal where you supply me, e.g. Currency, upfront and I give you a beaker discount on the price of CS.

You're going to have problems getting Monotheism from Darrell without Poly, so you'll need to think about it sometime! 9-) Shouldn't be pretty quick to research by that point though, so that may be better than trading it from Krill.
Dreylinian I.

Huge dump of information there...
[SIZE="6"]
Next Darrell[/SIZE]

Hey Darrell,

My bork boat is your side of Yaz's capital - any chance of some directions to come and meet you?

My eta for Aplhabet is 13t - will you be able to make the masonry + mono - writing trade then? I am also keen to get Maths as soon as possible, as i'm sure you are - will you be able to start it as soon as we trade?

Looking forward to sharing a fish with you soon!

Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

SL,

Looks good! I was under the impression you'd be giving me alpha+writing, and I would be giving you masonry+mono then going full bore on Mathematics and give you that when it came in. I have some trades lined up I can't make without Alphabet! I won't be using the tech for anything else but that...no worries about me trading it around or going for any wonders it unlocks.

I will be able to start it as soon as the trade goes through, and I hope to have enough cash saved up to do it at 100% research.

From Yaz's capital you need to go west about 3 tiles (stay as south as possible) and you'll see a little island. You follow that island over west, and then I will be to the south and west . Looking forward to meeting you finally.

Darrell

Darrell,

I will be willing to front you Alphabet although I'd like to just highlight a couple of notes from our original deal to clarify things. This is a quote from our chat at the time of making the deal:

I did think of one problem...to get Mathematics, I need Writing. So you'd have to trade me Writing for Masonry and Monotheism, then I would research Mathematics and trade it for Alphabet
16:42 So he knows I am trying to line up a trade with someone for Alphabet+Writing in return for Mathematics+Masonry+Monotheism.
I'm going to give you free broker rights for any of my techs from this trade with Yaz...its the only thing I can think of to make it right.

I am happy to front you Alphabet so you can make the trades you need to but could I ask a favour in return? My work boat will be nearing your lands in the next 2 - 3 turns I imagine. Would you sign OB with me so that he can progress on to meet Krill?

Cheers,

Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Okay, thanks for pointing that out and thanks for agreeing to front me Alphabet anyway :-). I will certainly give you OB and can provide directions on the fastest way to meet Krill.

Darrell

[Square Leg]

Bit of spam here but that post was getting silly...

I was annoyed with Darrell for forgetting things...

[SIZE="6"]Krill[/SIZE]

Hi Krill,

Thanks for the email about your working times - 12h shifts sound like a bitch though!

I have an eta of 13t for alphabet so I was wondering on your eta for IW and HBR? We also have half the cost of MC to make up somehow so I guess we should talk about that also!

So here is what we currently have lined up: Krill - IW (200), HBR (250), MC (450/2 = 225) = SL - Writing (120), Alphabet (300) All at normal speed beakers as my head hurts otherwise! This leaves me in debt to you by 225. How would you like to make this up? I also have sailing that will knock 100 off the total and, with OB and defogging allow us lucrative intercontinental trade routes! Perhaps you would just like a discount on our next trade?

Let me know.

Cheers,
Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Hi mate,

sorry for the brevity of the letter, just got in and need to go have a shower, then collapse in bed.

I would most likely prefer to just gift you all of my tech up front, and then recoup the beaker debt in the next set of trades. It is the simplest measure, but also need to remember that I won't get trade routes with you, because I have not yet defogged a path to you. Not that I am unwilling to grant you OB, but it is a one way favour, at least in the beginning, and that ought to be taken into account considering the benefits that OB provide.

I should have IW researched by the time that you finish Alphabet, however I will not yet have started to research HBR (Polytheism and priesthood kinda caught my attention...) but if I gift you MC and IW up front, I am only 25 beakers down immediately, and can then gift you HBR about 10 turns later (maybe significantly less, as I plan to have some extra commerce coming in once I hook up 2 grassland gems). If OTOH you would prefer to not hand over Alphabet until you could receive HBR, I am ok with that, and it will not shorten the deadline for the research of HBR.

Thanks in advance,

Krill

Hi Krill,

Making up the difference in the next set of trades sounds fine to me. I will be heading to Currency for round 2 of the trades, I would love for my trade with Darrell for Maths to have gone through before starting the tech but he hasn't replied to my mail yet...

I am quite happy for us to do the MC + IW - Writing + Alphabet trade and then for HBR to follow later on. Just to recap, all techs traded have a no trade on clause. Correct? If you want me to chuck in Sailing too just let me know.

On the open borders front - lets wait until my WB is knocking at your borders. Shouldn't be for a few turns yet, I am between Yaz and Darrell somewhere at the moment - I have found a small island - 2 or 3 tiles in size. Have you scouted this? If you still have a warrior in the region let me know and we can rendezvous for a smoke and a pancake.


Cheers,
Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Square Leg (meh, Cricket, Snooker is a proper gentlemans' game )

Nice to hear about your choice for the tech trades so swiftly. and that you are claiming Currency for the next set of trades. I'm unsure of what each player is planning on researching, but there is always a chance I head towards Compass for harbours; only seafood that I am missing is crabs.

All techs do have a no trade clause - I don't want to get into the situation where two parties trade and then try to screw each other over by gifting the others tech to everyone that they know. It is a rather pyhrric victory. Also, I do have a deal in place for Sailing, so unfortunately I can't trade with you for that, unless circumstances change.

Luckily I do know where the three tile island is in relation to my lands; it is quite far away, but I do have a warrior that you can make contact with in the next 7 turns, provided you can get OB with Darrell. If you head SW of the 3 tile island, you will come across the island that contains me and Darrell (Blue Island ) and if you stick the the east coastal path, we will meet just east of some pigs.

Hey Krill,

I'll agree that snooker is a cracking sport although for all round British fun, you cannot beat cricket! ;-)

I have heard on the grapevine that Darrell is also potentially heading towards Currency... remember I owe you some beakers so it is seriously discounted from me! ;-)

Compass makes sound sense for trade routes which are clearly going to form a large percentage of peoples income in this game. I would certainly be interested in that tech also.

My WB is making his way and will hopefully meet Darrell in a couple or turns or so.


Cheers,
Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

So lots going on there too!

Finally [SIZE="6"]Yaz[/SIZE]

11:57 Yaz: Won't know ETA on Monarchy for a couple turns. Definitely slower than alpha because some of us aren't being treated to free intercontinental trade to boost their treasury
11:58 me: ;-)
I must admit - I didn't realise the implications straight away since I hadn't researched sailing...
11:59 Needless to say I have don't that now.
I am really grateful for the trade routes.
Yaz: yeah I'm sure it's giving you a nice bonus Just keep that in mind for later hehe
me: I will
I get an extra 4gold
12:00 Yaz: nice
Wish I had an extra 4 haha
Wish my gold resource wasn't stuck in middle of a damn desert for that matter.
me: You will need a work boat or galley out there to find me...
Yaz: Yeah working on a galley
me: You have gold?!
Yaz: 1 gold. In middle of a giant desert.
12:01 It's pretty much a tease
me: bugger!
Where did darrells wb go?
Yaz: My northern land goes Giant Desert -> Gold -> More desert -> Couple plains -> Tundra
No food resources in sight
12:02 me: urgh - I don't really have any room on my island...
Yaz: He went south
Did you not actually meet?
me: Dreylin is close and it is really snakey. I need a galley out soon just for my next city..
Nope!
Yaz: haha
me: I am heading to his homeland... i think...
12:03 Yaz: yeah somewhere west
me: is there an island between the 2 of you? like 3 tiles big?
Yaz: I don't know, haven't explored at all.
12:04 me: ok - I guess ruff put pay to that...
Yaz: Pretty much
Want to buy an army? :P
me: Not really...
What have you got? I saw an Immortal and an axe
12:05 Yaz: Gotta keep some secrets :P
me: Are you at peace now?
Yaz: Yeah we just signed peace
me: fair play
so who won? ;-)
12:06 Yaz: Believe I did :P
me: good news - he started it and you finished it!
Yaz: Yup. Guess he didn't want to try and force my units out of middle jungle hills after I killed his warrior.
12:07 me: Did you see darrell built the GLH
Yaz: Completely missed it.
Saw both of Krill's though
me: Their island is full of candy!
Maybe your army could go there? ;-)
12:08 Yaz: haha tempting
12:09 me: You got a nap with darrell?
Yaz: Not sure I'm wanting to start something with Krill without backup though :P
me: No - me either - although someone will have to at some point. He has certainly got himself into pole position in my opinion
12:10 he founded hindu too and will have a prophet in no time with those two wonders
12:11 Yaz: Darrell just sent me SS, yeah three tile island between us, he's SW of it.
me: cool - my wb is just on the north of that island. Should meet him soon then.
12:13 I need to go and grab some lunch, cya!
Yaz: cya

I am going to read over everything and type up a summary in a bit!