[spoiler!] Ruffing Bull of Spain

[Ruff_Hi]

In play order ...

1. novice
   
2. ruff hi
   
3. adhoc
   
4. jbtwinkletoes
   
5. pegasus

Play order is NAS - Ruff - Adhoc - TT - Peg

Current confirmed order is ...

? - NAS - Ruff - Adhoc - ?

... which, with a little re-arranging, becomes ...

NAS - Ruff - Adhoc - ? - ?

... so, assuming play order ... puts TT next to Adhoc. I'll tell him next turn. T21 came in this morning and I should see T22 this afternoon. Going into town for Lunch as some sqanky restaurent so might be a little delayed playing it ... assuming it gets here.

The play order thing is something that I found myself doing during map making too. I purposely zoomed into the map and then clicked randomly on the starting positions to put down the units.

[Ruff_Hi]

Lost graph EPs on NAS - they don't have anyone else to spend their EPs on. I am spending mine on Adhoc. I buzzed Adhoc about my thinking re his neighbour as well as declaring war on him! I shall be within his land for 3 turns and then we can sign a peace deal.

Worker finished, moved to farm wheat (5 turns) - same food as rice but 1 extra hammer plus it is towards my stone. Started a warrior (5 turns) while working both towns, tech is BW (5 turns). That is too many '5 turns'. Seems I have lots of decisions to make in 5 turns.

[Ruff_Hi]

Agriculture and Mining are done. BW is 74 beakers done (start of T22). I am currently pulling 19 [5+5+1+8] beakers and BW is 99 beakers done at the end of T22.

Err ...

(14 + 1) x 1.2 = 18

That's it. The +1 free beaker comes before multiplication for prereqs and devaluation.

... that doesn't add up. 74 + (19 + 1) x 1.2 = 98. Are you sure it isn't 1.25? The 14+1 would still yield 18 if it was 1.25.

1. [strike]Agriculture (92)[/strike]
   
2. [strike]Mining (77)[/strike]
   
3. Bronze Working (184*) (4.6 turns)
   
4. Masonry (123*) (5.1 turns)
   
5. Wheel (92) (4.6 turns)
   
6. Hunting (61) (3.1 turns)
   
7. Archery (92*) (3.9 turns)
   

To quarry and connect the stone, I need 6 roading turns and 6 quarrying turns. Maybe I should have started a 2nd worker instead of the warrior. Oh well, guess I can leave my city swinging in the wind for a few more turns - I'll swap to a worker next turn.

Ok, so game plan is ...

• City: build worker then warrior
  
• Alibi Worker: farm wheat, chop forest, road to stone
  
• Tech: BW with overflow into wheel, then masonry
  

[T-hawk]

Agriculture and Mining are done. BW is 74 beakers done (start of T22). I am currently pulling 19 [5+5+1+8] beakers and BW is 99 beakers done at the end of T22.

... that doesn't add up. 74 + (19 + 1) x 1.2 = 98. Are you sure it isn't 1.25? The 14+1 would still yield 18 if it was 1.25.

The prereq bonus definitely isn't 1.25, it's well known as 20%. I'm not sure what happened there. I'm not at Civ at the moment but I'm pretty sure I've tested before that the free beaker is added before multiplication.

Is there a devaluation bonus on Bronze, does anybody else have it?

[Ruff_Hi]

Is there a devaluation bonus on Bronze, does anybody else have it?

Ahh - that is it. NAS know it and adhoc might. What is the devaluation formula? Something like 1 + 20% (known and alive / total in game). So ...

(19 + 1) * 1.2 * (1 + .2 (1/5))

or is it ...

(19 + 1) * [1 + 0.2 + 0.2 (1/5)] - that works out to 20 * 1.24

Or is that '/5' part really '/4' or /'total in game less 1'.

[Shoot the Moon]

Ahh - that is it. NAS know it and adhoc might. What is the devaluation formula? Something like 1 + 20% (known and alive / total in game). So ...

I believe it is 30% times the number who know it / total number, not 20% (at least that is what T-Hawk has said elsewhere ).

[T-hawk]

I believe it is 30% times the number who know it / total number, not 20% (at least that is what T-Hawk has said elsewhere ).

Yes, that is my understanding. And corrections from my original understanding that we have worked out recently: The devaluation multiplier is additive (not multiplicative) with the arrow-prereqs multiplier. And your own civ is included when figuring percentage of civs for devaluation (so even if everybody else knows a tech, the full devaluation is never quite 30%, but (N-1)/N * 30%. )

[Ruff_Hi]

The CFC formula I found is ...

Beakers applied to Technology = FLOOR (FLOOR ((Total Base Beakers + 1) * KCwT modifer) * Prerequisites modifier)

So, plugging in my values from last turn ...
Beakers applied to Technology = FLOOR (FLOOR [(19 + 1) * [1 + 0.3 * 1/5] * 1.2) = 20 * 1.06 * 1.2 = 21 * 1.2 = 25

I guess I can use these figures as another way of working out if NAS and Adhoc have various techs.

Doing some calcs on overflow techs and revising my tech order, I get this from the start of T23 ...

• Bronze Working (184*) (3.4 turns)
  
• Wheel (92) (4.2 turns)
  
• Masonry (123*) (4.96 turns)
  
• Hunting (61) (2.1 turns)
  
• Archery (92*) (3.8 turns)
  

Swapping Masonry and Wheel gives:

• Bronze Working (184*) (3.4 turns)
  
• Masonry (123*) (4.8 turns)
  
• Wheel (92) (3.9 turns)
  
• Hunting (61) (2.2 turns)
  
• Archery (92*) (3.7 turns)
  

The second version is actually 1 turn faster than the first. It probably doesn't have an impact on getting the stone on line (limiting resource is worker turns) but it does bring me Masonry 5 turns earlier.

[Ruff_Hi]

Change plans (again) - stayed on the warrior. Adhoc founded Judaism this turn. That means he has Masonry but I am not that worried about him building TGWall - I would think he would be focused on GPriest wonders. Wouldn't he? Well - who would start a MP game with double religion?

That said - if he revolts to Org Rel, he'll get another +25% on wonders ... to go with his +50% on wonders.

I have diplo pics to share but I have to race and see The Green Hornet now.

[Ruff_Hi]

chat to adhoc


chat to NAS