[Spoiler] First rodeo: Jalepeno takes the bull by the horns.

[jalepeno]

Demo screen rounds down.

Since this is on quick speed, you only need 5 culture to pop your borders for the first time. So, a creative civ does this in 2 turns.

ah, that makes sense. I was thinking that he's only had 1 turn to pop them, but I'm seeing his demo's after ending turn 2.

[Ichabod]

Demo screen rounds down.

Since this is on quick speed, you only need 5 culture to pop your borders for the first time. So, a creative civ does this in 2 turns.

ah, that makes sense. I was thinking that he's only had 1 turn to pop them, but I'm seeing his demo's after ending turn 2.

Yes, in PBEMs the production happens when you press end turn, not after everyone is playing. That's one of the big advantages of playing first in PBEMs, it's like if you had an extra turn over everybody else. It can make a big difference in Wonder aces, for example.

[jalepeno]

Are they able to settle as prophets?

Wow, I really did a bang-up job on my first try at C&D. They can't of course. ummm, then how does someone have a GNP of 18? It's gotta be some poor sap working the corn instead of the oasis, right? Judging from my efforts so far though, I'm the sap.

[jalepeno]

Turn 2

Turned open with an event:

Apparently some old dude croaked and left me money. I actually seriously considered the monument: would pop 3rd ring borders 11 turns earlier, which would be great for visibility on incoming barbs and city sites (right now, settler pops before borders). Went with the gold though: starts an event fund and will help keep researching powering along at 100% after City 2 goes up.

Exploring continues, with a nice boost from borders popping EOT:

North

Tile bleed shows that everything in the fog N of the warrior is a huge line of jungle. Yuck. Sugar will be a nice pick up eventually though.

South

Found another deer and another river corn (S of mana). And we have wines! And some good competition for city site number 2. 3 SE gets wet corn, river cotton, 2 GL mines, and several GL farms, +cows after border pop (won't be for awhile). 3 SW gets at least 3 floodplains, river wines, and pigs (mineable!), and whatever's in the fog. Long run, they're both amazing sites.

So now I have to decide what to do with my scout. He's probably got another 5-7 turns of life in him; I could use that to run over and check out the floodplain site, canvassing most of the south in the process. But yet another hill directly 2 tiles to the SE is sooo tempting...

Demographics

Crop yield and production are the same, lowest GNP drops to 17 as Yell0w's borders pop and the governor drops the oasis for hir deer.

[jalepeno]

Ok, so I'd promised myself that my warrior would by home by T5, but that ancient tower in the NW is tempting him.

Lurker question: if the next row of tiles is jungled/forested as in this case, just how much will the tower show?

[DaveV]

Lurker question: if the next row of tiles is jungled/forested as in this case, just how much will the tower show?

Not much. Worldbuilder test:

[jalepeno]

Lurker question: if the next row of tiles is jungled/forested as in this case, just how much will the tower show?

Not much. Worldbuilder test:

Thanks! I guess it's not worth it sending him up there then. I already know it's a bunch of jungle.

[jalepeno]

Turn 3

Decided to keep going SE with the scout. I can always pop a warrior onto the F PH to inspect the floodplain area.

Just look at all that riverside grassland! It's like the map was made for aristofarms. Was not expecting to find coast though. Looks like a pretty significant stretch though; my guess is there are a few land bridges running N-S across the worldwrap. This could mean my south is quite defensible and there might not be anyone challenging for that area. We'll see though. Plan for now is to keep that scout moving SE-ish to try to meet some neighbors.

Demos:

Hmmm, let's see if I can make sense of all this. Everyone's borders are now popped, and most are working the F deer, obviously going worker first. But someone's being special and growing (rival best crop yield of 5). That makes the most sense for Yell0w: starts with ancient chants and is spiritual, so growing on the oasis while teching mysticism makes sense. Actually, I should have caught that earlier. On T0 the rival best manufacturing was 4...Yell0w's also ind, so if he'd been going worker first, he would have had 5. So both Yell0w and Sian should have GNP of 19. It is possible that someone else is also growing first.

rival best production of 9 must be a GE; no other way to get that high with only 1 pop. Furthermore, it can't be an industrious civ (2 city tile, 1 palace, 3 GE = 6 base hammers; work either deer or oasis, means base 9 or base 6; the ind bonus gives 11 or 7), unless they're not going worker first. But why emphasize hammers without going worker first? So I'm going to say that either WK or TBS went for a GE and are working the deer. Rival average of 6 means, total >= 30. low 4, high 9, means other 3 to total 17 or more. HK should have 8 (7 base, +1 ind), leave 9 to split between the other 2. hmmm, that would suggest someone else besides Yell0w is also growing first. But maybe the governor is doing weird things after the pop. Mine didn't switch from the cow to the deer after borders popped; glad I caught it!

Rival worst GNP is still confusing me. How to get 16? +10 palace (8c, 2cul), +1 city tile = 11 base. engineer gives +3 so 14, then oasis would give 16. Ummm, I don't see any way someone with a GE could get higher than 16 for GNP, but last turn rival worst GNP was 17. At the same time, I don't see how you get prod 9 without a GE. And it's impossible for someone with a GS to have GNP lower than 17.

Q, any thoughts on reading the demos? I'm lost and the explanation's probably too spoilery for any of the general lurkers to explain it to me.

[Ichabod]

Industrious bonus doesn't show in the demographics. Only bonuses that benefit all production appears in it. So, forges and factories appear in demographics (state property in vanilla is anotehr example, I think), bonus production on wonders, workers, buildings, do not.

Regarding GNP, there's the prerequisite bonus, which shows in the demographics.

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I don't think these are spoilers. FfH games in general have a more free approach to lurker comments and this is general game knowledge. I'm neither confirming, nor denying that you are right or wrong. If you want, I can point out a very interesting thread that also teaches C&D.

[Qgqqqqq]

I think its probably researching something with a pre req, which tells me agriculture -> calender.
I don't know though, I gave up early in pitboss9