WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[Serdoa]

Ya i am waiting for the response.

If that is addressed to me, I would like you to parse your question a little better.

As he quoted me, the most likely question (and the one I asked and never got an answer): Why do you state that Rowain only wanted to lynch the card-holder, where is the evidence for this? Why do you tell that Rowain made a statement along the lines "we need to lynch a villager, so lynch the one with the card" when he never did that? Where is the evidence to back your statements up?

Pindicator couldn't find it and admitted that he misinterpreted him. Unfortunately not enough to switch to you. You and novice though simply ignored that question from the first time I asked it till now. And the only explanation is that otherwise you would have had to change your vote if you had admitted that he never did what you used as reason to vote him.

[Ryan]

Ryan :"I don't see the difference to what Rowain said and it feels like you are twisting his words. Firstly the lynch was going to remove Novice a suspect of being scum plus the card. Which what you were saying since in a same way you are relaying on the fact that wolves aren't influencing the votes and that town lynch. Secondly you mentioned in a very early post that you prefer Vigi not shooting so it doesn't fall into scum hands why the change of heart ? Thirdly I am still waiting for you to respond to the argument that Serdoa and Rowain made against you and uberfish that you both ignored responding to . I cannot link it right but it disproved the reason of you and fishes vote against Rowain . You didn't respond to that but choose to switch your point of view on the Vigi shot. All of these are increasing the level I was doubting you pretty heavily . "

All of this was said to you. Selrahc I quoted you and wrote to that quote and again I am gonna requote this by Serdoa.

Sorry x-post with 375.
I'm explaining my reasoning.
Yes I do find Rowain suspicious but its no because I don't agree with him, its because of the way he is driveing his train - not for the sake of catching wolves but a veritable policy lynch where he basically says "we have to lose a villager, why not this one."

Yeah, that argument was brought now so often, but I still wait for someone to show me when Rowain actually stated that. Oh wait, pindicator found it:

I'm still the opinion that it better to lynch a villager with the card than to lynch a villager without it.
So who has a good enough chance to be scum to outweight the risk of lynching a villager? Our back and forth has drawn too much talk so far (which makes it in itself already a good move for scum) but I think there are some names worth a closer inspection.

Well, probably good you called me out on that, because i didn't read this thoroughly the first time. I took the bolded bit and glossed over the rest, so boo on that example. But this later one is the one i had in mind:

Yes getting rid of the card trumps lynching a random villager. Are you of different opinion? You rather want the card in play and lynch a villager?

So it could just be a lazy re-writing of the first point. Enough that i don't think that is his guilt all in one.

Well, so we agree that he never stated what 4 people provide as reason to vote for him? Thats great. If now only those people, like Qgqqqq, would actually start to reread themselves instead of simply latching onto a wagon because it is so much easier that would be great.

Btw: Thanks pindi, I was getting unsure myself now what Rowain had actually written, but I was certain that I would remember if he actually really had stated that we have to lynch a villager anyway. Of course, one can construe the posts you quoted above as that, but I'd consider that ill-intent, because it seems obvious that is was meant differently, as you point out. I also understand that you have other reasons which let you lean more to him than to Selrahc. Not sure I agree with them, but at least it feels honest and not something you make up just to vote for him as I get the feel with some of the others.

Also, I agree with you that we should not put too much trust in the seer-scans. Thats a good stance to take. Hopefully that will be kept as soon as the first screams that he found a wolf.

"Well, so we agree that he never stated what 4 people provide as reason to vote for him?" this line. You never posted to what Serdoa wrote when he said that what you wrote is complete wrote about Rowain was false. Specifically what you claimed he said. and the paragraph that I just repeated and posted above serdoas quote. Has several accusation versus why are you still ignoring accusations?

[Ryan]

X post with Serdoa

[novice]

Items passed to someone who's killed will be destroyed. BRick ruled that earlier.

[novice]

Sigh. I don't really get out Tasunke wiggled out of this, he is the clear best choice :/.

If Tasunke won't hang, then I'll go with Rowain .

So, Bigger, Rowain makes an excellent eyeroll here. What gives?

yes, that post by Bigger raised my eyebrows - perhaps even into a full eye roll.

Why?

Don't you find it odd that Bigger states he prefers Tasunke over Rowain, but doesn't take the opportunity to lynch Tasunke when it arises?

I wish you hadn't answered that question for Waterbat, Novice

It was indirectly a question for me as well, so I answered it. Wb should answer it too.

[Qgqqqqq]

Ryan please type in quote tags.
Your latest posts are making my head spin (use [ q u o t e ] [ / q u o t e ]without the spaces.

Guys no-one ever made a case saying why they thought novice was evil; only that they ythought claiming the card was scum, hence selrahcs plan is different.

[Bigger]

Sigh. I don't really get out Tasunke wiggled out of this, he is the clear best choice :/.

If Tasunke won't hang, then I'll go with Rowain .

So, Bigger, Rowain makes an excellent eyeroll here. What gives?

I've long since given up trying to understand Rowain. I imagine he was frustrated that Tasunke was the one I wanted to lynch the most, yet my vote was on Rowain in a showdown between Rowain and Tasunke.
Well, that frustrates me too. When I switched, Tasunke only had one other vote and it was obvious to me he wasn't going to be lynched. My Rowain vote was a "well he's a better lynch than Selrahc or novice" vote. I crashed (haven't not slept in a long, long time) shortly after. Serdoa is right, if I had been awake I would have switched to Tasunke. However, I don't feel sorry for him since he also could have saved his own ass simply by voting for Tasunke. Rowain has a history of pouting and making votes like that out of frustration that don't help the village (or scum when he is scum). Its quite annoying.

I agree that IF the vig gun is to be used, Tasunke is a good target. I'm not really sure if thats better than just not using it, though. I guess I'll leave that to the discretion of the owner of said item.

[novice]

@Waterbat You have posted barley at all and provided close to now explanation for your votes or anything. At first you said this :"lynching novice seems to have the least net downside to it (absent other useful data)." and then your vote was finally set to "this lso seemed like something was off there with Zakalwe its thin" I dont understand that change vote or the reason for that change in fact I barley got anything from your posts except ideas already mentioned just to escape a convorsation. Looking at your posts its about scrapper and thats it. You provided zero information and the stuff you wrote is basically filler in my eyes.

I agree with this. Waterbat, what say you?

As he quoted me, the most likely question (and the one I asked and never got an answer): Why do you state that Rowain only wanted to lynch the card-holder, where is the evidence for this? Why do you tell that Rowain made a statement along the lines "we need to lynch a villager, so lynch the one with the card" when he never did that? Where is the evidence to back your statements up?

Pindicator couldn't find it and admitted that he misinterpreted him. Unfortunately not enough to switch to you. You and novice though simply ignored that question from the first time I asked it till now. And the only explanation is that otherwise you would have had to change your vote if you had admitted that he never did what you used as reason to vote him.

We say that (or at least I do) because Rowain never said a word about why I was scum, even when I specifically asked for it. And I stated explicitly myself multiple times why I was voting Rowain - because I didn't believe him when he said he believed me to be scum (why would I, he never gave any reasons) - and he never commented on that. He also didn't comment on Pindicator's and others' explanations on how to deal with the Fool card and why destroying it wasn't so important. He just kept hammering (yeah I said it!) why I could be scum because I've sometimes been part of elaborate scum ploys.

Here, what Q just said:

Guys no-one ever made a case saying why they thought novice was evil; only that they ythought claiming the card was scum, hence selrahcs plan is different.

Speaking of rocket science and unanswered questions, Serdoa, why don't you answer this:

Also, Serdoa, are you seriously saying that a 90% reliable seer is useless? You can weigh his evidence against other sources, you know.

[Bigger]

also, in the spirit of full disclosure. I got a pm from Ryan today asking me if it was possible to suicide yourself. I told him he needs to ask Brick this, and that it was against the rules for us to pm privately. he responded with a "my bad, didn't know" post.

I'll respond to that here Ryan: if Brick lets you, please don't. thats a bad idea for the village, imo. Unless you are scum, then please kill yourself .

[pindicator]

Yeah, frustration is the name of this game.