WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Molach]

Mabye this is enough to earn the rogues' trust

Flug, QT et al.
I did make the promise to not quote in the thread, because I didn't know that he would keep staying silent in main thread. I think it was a necessary step to get him to open up. I told him repeatedly to just post, be honest. If I make a promise like this in any future game, Civ or WW, then I'll respect it. But consider if I'm playing like a wolf would or just making a bad call about the whole business. I suggest they are not the same.

Lewwyn, my motivation was more 'lynching BRick' than saving Ichabod. Lynch the better target. To illustrate, before lynch I would have Ichabod 20% scum risk (down from 25% at start of game) And BRick ...35%. So lynch BRick is better than lynching Ichabod. If you're convinced Ichabod is a wolf on the block why no mention of Rowain, by the way?

I've posted a fair bit already, and I've pledged to keep doing so. Is this how I play wolf? Getting noticed heavily on day 1? (Yes, I didn't have to post anything from the QT at all, not even that there existed one. And I could have edited it a bit to make me look better, no real need to rush it out at the start of the night because I could have gone to bed, right?)

Wolf play - don't stick your head out. There are people cruising along. At least do the job on the rest of the gang here. Who are lazy villagres and who are scum.

[Tasunke]

Some Basic thoughts:

Pindicator ... do you have a post restriction of 9 (or possibly 8?) posts per day?

Is this in the form that once you reach 2, 1, or 0, you either die? or just can't post any more. (perhaps if you go over the limit you die ...)

Either way, if this truly is a post restriction, perhaps you have something to compensate for it. Probably either some survivalist (dbl traitor), or perhaps a powerful village role. Overall I'd give this a slight village lean. (but not beyond suspicion of course)

Lewwyn ... strong village lean. That's the Lewwyn I seem to remember from my first few WW games ^_^

Molach ... indeed suspicious, I suppose I could give him a wolf lean at this moment ... but

Meiz for now. I know ppl are saying his being a packmate with Gaspar is a longshot, but I dunno ... I think its worth persuing. They certainly did seem, at least to me, mutually aligned on D1.

[GaiusMarius]

Tasunke, how exactly did Meiz and Gaspar seem aligned to you? I looked, but wasn't able to find anything. However, you were right about Gaspar, so I figure I should give you a chance.

[Meiz]

Gaspar must be celebrating in the lurker thread. Once again a scum, which he seems to hate from his heart :D. But well played, didn't suspect you at all.

I stand by my BRick vote, I did provide a reason, belatedly. Attacking weak, opportunistic targets. However I did not have time to make a grand case on BRick, was a bit busy with the 'neighbour thing'. And I was unhappy with current lunch-options.

What the hell has your lunch options have to do with anything, damned necromancer! Ye had to choose between a dry bone and bat shit?

So I guess it could be seen as scummy that I make an unfounded vote. But why would I need to do this, on day 1, with two perfectly good mislynches already on the block? (Ichabods posting this night has me pretty convinced he's village) Best wolf play, at least for me, is to vote either of those with minimal effort required, or find someone easier to post about and state the case better. Or just leave my vote on Lewwyn and claim I was too busy watching 'halvbroren' to make a switch in time.

You'd have to explain why you voted your neighbor to death. Or explain what was it in Ichabod's play that made you do the killing blow. Leaving the vote on Lewwyn would have been wolfish as well. Bringing up the third candidate is safe and easy.

Neighbour thread. Okay. Keep in mind through the posting that I did not know flug's alignment for sure, and was really trying to get him to post in the main thread. Mainly so other could get a better read and not leave the call about his innocence to me alone. Towards the end I was thinking village, especially after his 'self-voting to save ichabod' post. By then I had promised not to quote from the thread without consent (or death). I said in main thread that I would not vote for him because he was posting, that he was replying and that I couldnt/wouldn't quote. Then lunchtime.

But I fail to see how this is good wolf play (Flug's quote from the QT):
"Listen, neighbor. I think this. If you don't know my team and I don't know your team, this is only possible if we both are team village, because all the wolves know each other. This give us some edge, right? What do you think of the situation? "

Wouldn't this be a good reason to not get him lynched?

But you didn't tell us anything until flug was dead, due to your promise. Which is stupid when considering that flug gave some good villager indications on the private thread, like plans for self voting. Seems like you were happy to let him dig his own grave. So agree 100% with Lewwyn, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid337571

I've posted a fair bit already, and I've pledged to keep doing so. Is this how I play wolf? Getting noticed heavily on day 1? (Yes, I didn't have to post anything from the QT at all, not even that there existed one. And I could have edited it a bit to make me look better, no real need to rush it out at the start of the night because I could have gone to bed, right?)

Wolf play - don't stick your head out. There are people cruising along. At least do the job on the rest of the gang here. Who are lazy villagres and who are scum.

You don't have much choice, with suspicions and votes piling against you.

---

Good defense post by Gazglum.

---

I think Gaspar's kill indicates that we have a serial killer, rather than a vigilante. I had a town read on him before he flipped, so I can't see it being a vig kill. Unless there are multiple scum teams, which doesn't really make with uberfish's listing of Gaspar = Scum rather than a team name or anything like that, it has to be serial killer IMO.

Agreed.

[Meiz]

After reviewing Gaspar's posts, I'd lean villager for Tasunke and Bigger. The impression I'm getting is that Gaspar had a long term plan to continue attacking Bigger for the following days as well, to keep himself active. Tasunke's attacks on Gaspar speak in his favor.

Minor thing is Gaspar defending Azza on post http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid336187
If Azza would be his scum buddy, I don't think it was needed to defend him at this point. So I'm seeing Gaspar collecting villager creds for later.

Gaspar's vote on Molach was too late to matter.

[Qgqqqqq]

I don't like how everyone is clearing tasunke because of gaspar.
Sure tasunke was on him, but its not like it was going to be supported (I mean its tasunke, I didn't even notice he kept on jumping on gqspar.
I'm not saying he's evil, just that he shouldn't be cleared by it.
I didn't see any where people saying that meiz couldn't be a scum buddy either GM.

[novice]

I don't like how everyone is clearing tasunke because of gaspar.
Sure tasunke was on him, but its not like it was going to be supported (I mean its tasunke, I didn't even notice he kept on jumping on gqspar.
I'm not saying he's evil, just that he shouldn't be cleared by it.

I agree, Tasunke's only stated reason for voting Gaspar was "excessive roleplay". Hardly a convincing case.

I was thinking about Gaspar's refusal to vote Flug at the end, because "it wasn't necessary". Fact of the matter is that Flug could have switched and tied the vote with Ichabod. At first I thought this meant that Gaspar wanted Ichabod to hang, but on second thought, a late switch causing a villager Ichabod to swing would leave Gaspar with some 'splainin to do. So I think maybe Gaspar was just wary of being one of the Flug voters because he feared Flug could have some ability related to his lynchers. Then again, if Ichabod was a wolf, wouldn't Gaspar make absolutely sure he didn't hang by voting Flug at the end?

[Meiz]

Add this http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid337424 to this http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid337341

And I'm good with Molach and Pindicator hanging.

[Mattimeo]

I don't believe Molach's handing of the QT with flug reveals any negative intent. Possibly misguided, in hindsight, but the intent seems to have been getting a struggling player, who was obviously around at the time, to actually post and contribute to the game. And to be entirely honest, I'd wash my hands of (and probably go a step further and vote for) someone who, despite proving they were around, made no real attempt to interact with the thread in the 20 hours leading up to their lynch.
The one thing I do find slightly suspicious is this specific denial.

2. I won't have time to edit the thread and adjust the times or something. WYSIWIG. (I typed all date/time-info in so I wouldn't quote the whole thread as it contains Uberfish messages). All times are ET (US)

and again earlier on this page

And I could have edited it a bit to make me look better, no real need to rush it out at the start of the night because I could have gone to bed, right?)

Why is there a need to belabour the point that it's unedited? Surely that's the base assumption, and not something you need to specifically allay fears of...

Serdoa seems to be being standard Serdoa, picking something to run to the ground and subsequently doing so. Though getting started on day 1 rather than waiting for low-hanging fruit to jump on gives him a slight town lean for me.

Gaspar's limited interactions don't shed much light on anything. The fact he was so open about being prepared to save Ichabod against flug if it came down to it pushes Ichabod town in my eyes.
Tempted to vote Ichabod anyway for the length of #502 and #511 though

--

On the other hand, we have two known or suspected 'pairings' in the game - flug and Molach (with a QT), Jkaen and Ichabod (no info what abilities). Yes, there are reasons why they could be associated given backstory. Yes, alignment was randomly determined. But alignment was determined before roles, and I find it hard to believe that everyone in such links is town.
Therefore, Molach.

Too much effort right now to analyse anyone else intently. Niggling suspicions here and there for reasons I'm not entirely sure of myself (BRick, Bigger, Gazglum) that I'll see if I can substantiate later.

--

Hey Lewwyn and Mattimeo, you're both under 10 posts total so far, and this game is pretty active. What are you thinking?

I was thinking several things:
a) oh hey, Day 1. Usual shitfest. Let's wait 'til there's, you know, *any* actual information before jumping on stuff I'm pretty terrible at reading in the first place.
b) damn, this summer subject I'm doing is requiring rather more effort than I was expecting.
c) k, have time for forums. What to do? DnD character setup, or werewolf? DnD character setup looks to have better returns in both short and long term. Maybe when there's enough data in werewolf for me to analyse the hell out of the meta, or go stupid WIFOM.

d) anyways, doesn't matter if everyone dies, I can go back to the start of the month and begin again. With knowledge that might actually be useful immediately for once

[Jkaen]

I think Gaspar turning over wolf has exposed you, Ichabod. Such a shame you weren't lynched yesterday. You are reaching, trying to get your accusers lynched. I think agreeing with Gaspar's posts during the night (not knowing he would be vig killed) - which were basically bold face untruths, is just the nail in the coffin. You realize you can't get Serdoa lynched, just like Gaspar couldnt get Zak lynched, so you come after me and Brick instead.

I'm almost positive Serdoa is innocent. Rowain and Brick are probably innocent as well. You, otoh, stink of scum.

Ichabod

Bigger this is one of the most crazy theories I have ever seen. If Ichabod was scum and likely to be going down soon due to the pressure he was on, why would he then choose to obviously buddy up to a fellow scum (not that I think agreeing with 1 case in passing is).

Still not sold on Ichabod being village, but I would say that is a town tell not a blatant scum one

Some Basic thoughts:

Pindicator ... do you have a post restriction of 9 (or possibly 8?) posts per day?

Is this in the form that once you reach 2, 1, or 0, you either die? or just can't post any more. (perhaps if you go over the limit you die ...)

Either way, if this truly is a post restriction, perhaps you have something to compensate for it. Probably either some survivalist (dbl traitor), or perhaps a powerful village role. Overall I'd give this a slight village lean. (but not beyond suspicion of course)

Lewwyn ... strong village lean. That's the Lewwyn I seem to remember from my first few WW games ^_^

Molach ... indeed suspicious, I suppose I could give him a wolf lean at this moment ... but

Meiz for now. I know ppl are saying his being a packmate with Gaspar is a longshot, but I dunno ... I think its worth persuing. They certainly did seem, at least to me, mutually aligned on D1.

Tansuke, are you really saying because Pind has a post restriction he should be village?