Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[scooter]

Can we at least check what CFC wants for peace? Otherwise, this is GG anyway...

Here I'll save you the time:

We would like 15 cities

[MWIN]

Thank you!

Can we at least check what CFC wants for peace? Otherwise, this is GG anyway...

Here I'll save you the time:

We would like 15 cities

[scooter]

Sorry, I was being sarcastic . I didn't actually ask, but that's probably what they would say. They're about to win the game. They see where all our military is at, and they're not about to make peace with us - that would be lunacy.

The only offers that are really worth making are the ones that the other has some incentive to accept, otherwise you're just being insulting. The western allies do have some incentive to accept, and even they said no. CFC has none. Also, if it gets back to the western guys that we're offering CFC something too, that may make them less inclined to take anything with us. Not that they're particularly likely to do so anyway.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Pretty much, we've exhausted all diplomatic options. Our ONLY hope is that CivFR realizes the game is about to be over and piles in on CFC for real. I'd put the odds of that actually happening just south of 5%. We're more likely to be invaded by WPC during this war than CivFR actually do anything meaningfully helpful.

[Brian Shanahan]

Thing is we were hesitating about going war against you, especially in this scale before your war started with inca, but once we saw how easily you acquired their whole empire and saw the potential of a run away we had no choice, but to play as determined as possible, and now we are honour bound to finish what we have started. To what length I can't say yet but if you let cfc easily capture your core cities, then i guess there will be no point of peace talking later.

Fucking idiot. So you war with someone who you think may become a run-away in the knowledge (acknowledged later in the message) that the only winner is another team who are guaranteed to be runaway.

Scooter our only hope of getting Poly/Civ Players to see sense is to get onto the non diplo members of their teams and show them how fucked up their diplo members' thinking is.

And to be honest, if I were playing this game, I'd gift everything I had right now to UniversCiv, simply because Poly/Civ Players have decided to ruin our game and throw it to another team because we played too well. One thing to be beaten by a team that wants to win (that's the point of these things), but the game is not worth the candle in this situation.

Edit:

I will keep my given word even if itputs me in disadvantage

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, MZ. You broke your word the moment you decided that throwing the game to CFC was a valid choice, because you abandoned the promise to play the game fairly and to the best of your ability.

[Zargon]

Can we please stop acting like Poly and/or CP is making an error here?

Let's go right ahead and accept the premise that CFC is going to somehow walk away with more cities in this war despite entering 5 turns later, and despite our professed dislike for CFC. Despite CP having better 2-movers, and despite Poly being in position to cut off ex-Germany to take at their leisure.

Option 1: Do nothing. Result: lose to RB.
Option 2: Attack halfheartedly. Result: lose to RB.
Option 3: Attack all-out, but let RB off the hook after you've destroyed a huge chunk of their military. Result: split 15%-20% of RB's land between the two of them, but RB and CFC still have so much land between the 2 of them, that the only chance to win is to both get major victories elsewhere and for RB and CFC to fight to a standstill because neither Poly nor CP has as much land as either CFC or RB now that RB's off the hook. Oh right, and break their word to CFC. Almost certainly lose, maybe to RB, maybe to CFC, because way too much has to go right for this plan to work.
Option 4: Attack all-out, and don't pull back until it's actually clear that gaining more land will cost more than it's worth, which might be never. Result: Maybe get enough land to contend with CFC and CivFr, maybe not. If CFC takes too much, just rinse and repeat with CivFr this time. Maybe lose to CFC, but if they do, they'll go down swinging.

It seems entirely obvious to me that option 4 yields the best chance of success for Poly and CP.
They aren't throwing the game. They're taking their best shot and running with it. Getting pissed at them for that is ridiculous.

[NobleHelium]

I don't agree at all that we're bound to win if we give away the cities we're bound to lose at this point to them and then obtain peace. Realms Beyond is not currently winning this game. If we were, we wouldn't be desperate for peace.

[scooter]

Can we please stop acting like Poly and/or CP is making an error here?

Let's go right ahead and accept the premise that CFC is going to somehow walk away with more cities in this war despite entering 5 turns later, and despite our professed dislike for CFC. Despite CP having better 2-movers, and despite Poly being in position to cut off ex-Germany to take at their leisure.

Option 1: Do nothing. Result: lose to RB.
Option 2: Attack halfheartedly. Result: lose to RB.
Option 3: Attack all-out, but let RB off the hook after you've destroyed a huge chunk of their military. Result: split 15%-20% of RB's land between the two of them, but RB and CFC still have so much land between the 2 of them, that the only chance to win is to both get major victories elsewhere and for RB and CFC to fight to a standstill because neither Poly nor CP has as much land as either CFC or RB now that RB's off the hook. Oh right, and break their word to CFC. Almost certainly lose, maybe to RB, maybe to CFC, because way too much has to go right for this plan to work.
Option 4: Attack all-out, and don't pull back until it's actually clear that gaining more land will cost more than it's worth, which might be never. Result: Maybe get enough land to contend with CFC and CivFr, maybe not. If CFC takes too much, just rinse and repeat with CivFr this time. Maybe lose to CFC, but if they do, they'll go down swinging.

It seems entirely obvious to me that option 4 yields the best chance of success for Poly and CP.
They aren't throwing the game. They're taking their best shot and running with it. Getting pissed at them for that is ridiculous.

Zargon, MZ basically admits in chat that I'm right, but he's bound by agreement. We are not currently winning this game. We are like 3rd or 4th in beakers researched, 5th or 6th in breakeven tech rate, etc. Apolyton's chances of victory is highest if they take peace with us now in exchange for several cities, then tech away and/or use their army elsewhere.

So yes, they are making a mistake. They realize it too, but they badly don't want to break their word. That's up to them, but they better start drafting up their concession message in their forums.

[antisocialmunky]

Agreed with scooter.

On the lighter side:

scooter
website got hacked? sorry to hear that
that's no fun

MZ
check out and hit pause play
...
actually looks funny smile

Code:

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                                                                          ,CRRRRC,
                                                                         cRRRRRARRa
                                                                         sRRRRACARa
                                                                       sRRRRRAacCTc
                                                                       TRRRRRTs,sCc
                                                                     ,cRRRRRAsc,cCc
                                                           ,,,ccc,,  TRRRRRRCc,,cTc
                                                           ,,,ccc,,cCRRRRRRAac,,sTc
                                                     ,,,,,,   ,,, ,aRRRRRRRTs,, sAa
                                                ,,,    ,,,,,,  ,,, ,,csaTTATs,  sAa
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                                       ,,,,,,,,,  ,,,, , ,,,,, ,,     ,,  ,,,,cs,
                              ,aRRRRRRRRRRAacc,,,,,,,,,,,,,  ,,          ,,,,,,ccc,
                              cRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRa,,,,,,,   ,           ,,,,,,,cc,,,c,
                              cRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTc,,,,,,,           ,,,,,,,,,,cccccsc,,,,
                              cARTTTAARRRRRRRRRRTcccc,,,,,,  ,,  ,,,,,,,,,,,,ccssccc,,cssas,
                              cRRTaaTTTARRRRRRRTascc,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,csTCCsc,,,cccc
                               ,,cccccsssCTARACasccc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,cRRRRRRRc,,,c,
                                ,ARsc,,,ccsaCsscscccc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,cRRRRRRRc,cc,ccc,
                                cRRCc, ,,cccssssscc,,,,,,,,,,cc,,,,,,,,,,,,cARRRRRA,,ccccaa,
                                  ,CTs,, ,,csaassccc,,,,,,ccccc,,,,,,,,,,,,cARRRRc,,,ccCa,
                                   ccas,,,ccsssscccc,,,ccccc,cccc,,,,,,,,, ,cCAAs,,csc,c,
                                     aACcsaassssccccc,ccccaAAaCARCc,,,,,,         csasc
                                     aATCasscscccccccccc,cARRATRRAc,, ,     ,,,,,,,,ccc
                                     aATassccscccccc,ccccsARRTaTAs,,,        ,,,,,cc,
                                       caacccccccccccccccCRRRRRRRs       ,CTc,,ccccs,
                                       caacccccccccc,ccccsARRRRRAc    ,  cTTc,,ccccc,
                                     aATCaccc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,   ,,,,,,ccccccss,
                                     aATCasccc,,,,,c,,,,csaTTTTCsc,,,,,,ccscsscsTRa
                                     aAATCasccc,c,ccc,,,,ccccssccc,,,,,cccccsssccc,
                                     aAATCascccccccc,c,,cccccc,cccccccccssCasscc,
                                     aAATCsscccccc,cccccccaTCsccccccsccssCTTs,cccc,
                                     aRATCaaCasccsCTTCassssaaaassaCTTAAAsccccccccccc,
                                         sTATTTTTTTAATTTAAAAAAAAAacccccccccccc,,cs,
                                         ,aCssaaCaCCTTTTTTAAAAAATaccccc,cccc,,,,cc,
                                                    ,ssccccccccc,cc,c,,,,,,,,,,,,
                                                    ,sssscccccccccc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
                                                  ,,cccccccccccccc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
                                                  ,ccccc,cc,cccc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
                                                  ,ccccc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
                                                  ,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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                                                  ,,,,,,,       ,,,,,,ccc,,,,,,,, csc
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                                                   ,cascc,   ,,cccsc,cc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
                                                    ,,sas,,ccsaCCsc,,   ,,,,,,,,,,,,
                                                      cTTssaaasaac,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,
                                                      cAATCassccc,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,
                                                      cAATCassccc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
                                                      cAATCascccc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ccc,,,,
                                                      cTATCascccc,,,,,,,,,cccccc,,,,,cc
                                                      cTTasccc,,,,cccccccccsccc,,,,,,c,
                                                    caTTCascc,,,,,cccaCTTCssccc,,,, ,,,
                                                  caAATTascc,,,,,,,ccCARATaccc,,,,, ,,,,,
                                                  CRRATCacc,,,,,,,,ccCAAATacc,,,,,,,,,ccc,
                                       sRRRARRARRARRATCascc,,,,,,,,caTARTTaccc,,,,   ,csc,
                                ,TRAAAAARRAARAAARRAATCascc,, ,,,,,,aARARATCacc,,,,,  ,,cc
                             ,c,sRRRRRRRAARAAAARAAATTCascc,,  ,,,,cTRRRAAATCsc,,,,,  ,,cc
                           ,CRRRRRRAAAAAAAARARAARATTCacc,,,  ,,,,,,RRRATTTATCassc,,  ,,c,
                          sTRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAARAATTCascc,, ,,,,,,,cRRRACTTTTTCasc,,  ,,,
                          ,ccc,c,,cARRRRRRRRRRRRATCascc,,  ,,,,,,,cTRRAACaasassscc, ,,,
                                   ccsasccccccccaCasc,,,,,,,,,,cc,cARRRTCscccccc,,,,,cc
                                                sTacc,,,,,,,,,ccccsRRRRTCsscccc,,,,,cas
                                                sCsc,,,,,,,,c,,csTRRRRRRRTsc,,,,,, ,sRA,
                                              csCCsc,, ,,,,,,,,saaassCARRRRACaaaassaaac
                                             ,aTRACssssccsssssssc       sTRRTCCTCTTTs
                                                TRRRRRRRRRRRRRA,

Is that a Teemo?

Also, can we declare on CivFR just to screw with their timer? I want to elicit some sort of response from them before they piss their chance at winning away.

[NobleHelium]

Not sure what that is. Looks kind of like a Pokemon.

I'm ambivalent on declaring on someone else. Up to scooter.