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Yup, dtay is very, very good at this game. He has a bit of a reputation for fading late, but I don't think it's a reputation he's "earned" - more a product of the small sample, the tougher competition overall as the game progresses (and weaker civs are absorbed by stronger ones) and special circumstances (another reason to mistrust small samples).
Note GermanJoey just finished a wall in State of Zijin. With his Pro archers up there, that city isn't falling any time soon. We definitely got a tough draw on neighbor luck - on the other hand, it looks like less than half the players got a good draw. As you mentioned, we've seen a lot of strong openings in this game. Competition is looking pretty fierce.
I'm not sure HBR is the right deterrent against the Zulu. Just keeping our power on par with theirs is more important, although tactical roading (e.g. on the grassland cow and banana in Chubei's first ring, plus either the desert hill or the grassland north of the silver) would help us defend, as would Iron Working (to chop the jungles that swords, axes, and impis could otherwise use for cover, and also to give us more good tiles with which to build units and tech to other deterrents). Masonry would let us build walls of our own if necessary. And of course we want to stay ahead economically to the extent we can do so safely; we'll have at least two island cities soon, so Currency would give us +2 commerce in every city instantly, along with the ability to build cheap markets (and wealth when needed).
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Oh, I didn`t notice the walls in State of Zijin. It sure looks like an impregnable fortress.
I`ll try to arrange for the roading of the western side of the river running between Muqa and Chubei. We don`t want to put it off for too long. If you feel that we can get away with Currency, it`s a way better tech than a military tech like Horseback Riding right now. Let`s just keep a close eye at that power graph. It`s actually the first thing I check when I log into the game!
Tomorrow I`m traveling so won`t get to the turn until the evening (maybe 18-20 hours from now). Ventessel being slow to play is actually fine this time as otherwise a pause might have been needed.
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I have to admit, I don't know how important it is to e.g. get that road built or go for military tech. I think as long as GermanJoey and dtay have good options for peaceful expansion and we don't see their military seriously spiking (and note our recent "huge leap" - a real spike would be more severe than that) we should be fine, I think(or hope). Fighting too much too early can put a civ out of the running, and spending a lot of resources preparing for a fight that never comes can be at least as bad.
Keshiks are a more effective deterrent against Greece than against the Zulu, I think, since the options to move spears around to deal with them are more limited than with Impis, and our need for effective highly-mobile units is much greater on our long border with GermanJoey than our limited dtay border. State of Zijin is looking pretty indigestible at least until Construction though, and HBR does nothing or us except militarily.
I like the idea of peaceful plans that grow into future military power, but whether the peace will hold long enough for that kind of plan to work out ... I can't tell.
July 27th, 2017, 12:20
(This post was last modified: July 27th, 2017, 12:26 by JR4.)
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I just came home, looking forward to a new turn. But it seems Ventessel hasn`t even logged into the game for the last couple of days. Maybe the best solution for all parties is to look for a replacement. He must be pretty checked out of the game at this point. Can`t really blame him, though.
Getting Horseback Riding soonish is still my preference but it can probably wait until we have Iron Working (and Currency). It`s definitely a better tech for us than for our neighbors. That being said, you`re right that it`s an exclusively military tech which doesn`t bring any economic benefits (not until our Keshiks overrun an unprepared victim)! We also get the chance of getting a head start on our UB. Muqa and Chubei would appreciate the option of building Gers if we can get away with delaying more military for a few turns.
The problem with our border with Greece is that we have to prepare for an attack on Oghul Qaimish and Nambui, which are really far apart. At least they`re both on hills so an attack on either would be costly. For the time being I think we should play defensively towards Joey and dtay and continue our island push. We might want to build another axe in Chubei (and fortify it there) but not right away.
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(July 27th, 2017, 12:20)JR4 Wrote: Can`t really blame him, though.
Nor can I. If he's not being actively overrun, and just playing out the string with no chance of winning, that might make it even more difficult. I don't know what happened this time (apart from some early technical problems and that one city Coeurva appears to have razed) but I hope Ventessel sticks around and has better luck in his next game.
Quote:(not until our Keshiks overrun an unprepared victim)!
Pretty much exactly right. If we want to pull off a frontal assault with Keshiks, we need to do so as quickly as we reasonably can, manage to surprise them, and commit to it 100%. If we don't, they'll still be helpful as slightly-better HAs, and we'll definitely want several around throughout the game to act as hill-pillagers and scouts that can move through rough terrain even in enemy territory and take Sentry with 5+ xp. And later, we'll have Ger-boosted Knights, Cuirs, and Cavs when we're done claiming islands and need to expand by ... alternate means.
Quote:The problem with our border with Greece is that we have to prepare for an attack on Oghul Qaimish and Nambui, which are really far apart. At least they`re both on hills so an attack on either would be costly.
Very true ... except it's actually even worse. A stack of fast-movers with some worker support on the tile north of Zijin (or in Zijin after engineering) can move to the (current) shared mine in one turn, forking Borte and Toregene!
If we plant a crumple-zone city on the "C" 3W of Toregene, and it takes control of its first ring borders and Toregene pops borders to its third ring (so that GJ can't make the culture on one of those first-ring tiles disappear just by taking the crumple-zone city) we would have an extra turn of warning, but in the meantime that would be yet another city on the front that we'd have to defend at least against an opportunistic attack. (At least it's sheltered behind a river....)
Quote:For the time being I think we should play defensively towards Joey and dtay and continue our island push. We might want to build another axe in Chubei (and fortify it there) but not right away.
That makes sense to me, yeah.
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(July 27th, 2017, 13:32)RefSteel Wrote: Very true ... except it's actually even worse. A stack of fast-movers with some worker support on the tile north of Zijin (or in Zijin after engineering) can move to the (current) shared mine in one turn, forking Borte and Toregene!
We certainly can`t afford losing Borte or Toregene so we need to be ready if he does move up a stack. He won`t do it in the near future, though. At least we`ll see the stack a turn before it moves to the mine as we`ll always have vision on the tile N of State of Zijin and the city itself. Building a filler N of the river is something to think about when the land starts to run out. We should strive to push back the Greek culture as much as we can. Every tile we gain control over will make an attack on us harder to accomplish.
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All true. Of course if GJ moving a stack onto that mine were the only threat, we could just fortify spears there. The problem is defending that attack vector and Oghul Qaimish and Nambui when GermanJoey has the interior lines (or, in Chess terms, controls the "center of the board" in that region).
Another advantage of the new galley you want out of Muqa is that it's another vehicle for threatening Seven Mysteries when we need to do so (and we almost certainly will need to do so eventually if we don't lose the opportunity of doing so altogether). A road through the jungle (up to the northwest) from Nambui would also be useful for moving defenders around - there's a lot of work for our workers to do around the empire yet....
July 28th, 2017, 05:50
(This post was last modified: July 28th, 2017, 08:36 by JR4.)
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