RB Pitboss #3 [SPOILERS]- Suryavarman II of England

[Cyneheard]

News Flash:

Krill has changed his mind, Babylon + Mali are being let into CAN...and FRANCE ISN'T. More to follow.

[Cyneheard]

Our situation:
Switched BR to a Chariot. Can switch back, but I'd prefer working on the barracks over the library. We're going to need something there soon, as well. The chariot will finish EOT70; we'll work the furs after growing.
London can spit out a 2nd chariot manually (1st chariot goes for Gibraltar's escort) EOT70 as well (will have to work 3 mines instead of 2 for 1t; 2 mines + 2 cottages + sheep is the current set-up). This gives us 2 chariots able to hit Lyons T76.

Beaver Rock has 4 forests. We can chop 2 of them post-Math (T71), and 2 more on T75. That gets us 2 chariots on T71 and T72 to join the Lyon strike force, followed by an HA on T75, without any whips. 4 chariots WILL take Lyons. They don't have Archery, and I don't see how they're going to get more than 1 copper unit (which would probably be an axe anyway) at Lyons in the next 9t. I don't see how they've got the worker labor. We'll know when their copper is mined and connected.

We have 152 gold, -12gpt at the moment. 3t to finish Archery.

T72 is HRE's finish date of HBR. I specifically asked them whether that was "we get it T72" or "it finishes EOT72", and then they disappeared from chat.

Archery research:
We might have to do this ourselves. It'll take 3t, lets us support Babylon and Mali. We'd end up with about 110 gold, and Mali will probably become the Monarchy civ. Or we still get Monarchy, although we'd obviously be a little slower having picked up Archery. That probably pushes it back to about T82-83 (conquest cash on Lyons would help).

Chat to follow, still ongoing.

[Cyneheard]

Note: HRE's disappearance was due to technical issues. Happens.

So, we need to talk with HRE about how to make this work.

We probably go back to the old discussions about settling rights. We get 2S1W of the copper (razing Lyons), and they get 2W1N of the sheep. They'll have to make sure that they get there before Carthage does. Our front with them would be a little weird...both our Horses and Copper would be on a border with them. I don't know how to make that work well for us. Of all our neighbors, HRE will be one we're mostly likely to end up at war with over the long-term, assuming we kill off France.

T76: 4 chariots can hit Lyons. T75, they'd be on the copper, so any workers there would be captured, since they won't have visibility on where our chariots would be (unexpanded borders ftl).

Chops at BR would take place:
T71, T72, T75, and T76. This is to avoid overflow problems with T71 and T72 chariots: Chariots would finish T70 (natural), 71 (chop) and 72 (chop) here. We can whip an HA after the anger wears off (ideally @ size 5, so that we don't lose the furs).

AF: I think we want to clear-cut it so that we field a proper army. If we do so, then we want a stable there first. Shock, Cover or Combat II HAs, a medic or sentry chariot, great possibilities.

London can build a worker or two, or some archers, and maybe a settler to replace Lyons with, say, Caen (a city England blitzed in the Hundred Years' War) or Crecy, where France tried (and failed) to charge the hill because of English longbowmen. Gibraltar will be tasked with getting up to speed, and might take the worker-production duty from London.

Krill: Yo dude. You heard the news?
me: no
Krill: OK here is the gist of it. babs and mali want in the CAN
me: we would be fine with that
Krill: Awesome
me: what changed?
Krill: that means we can go kill France
me: I mentioned that earlier. I was lackluster
Krill: Er, this was only just brought to my attention... ok
me: oh, sorry. When I said it, it was "They want in, but I didn't think it made sense"
Krill: for what it is worth, I always wanted to overfill the CAN. that might have been the reason. I just wanted it over filled, kill a few extra teams, and use the extra space. ie dead Exploit, France and 2 others would have been OK by me
me: So we need to work on a HA strike on France's copper city
Krill: yeah or preemptive. Also, I just went and pissed off Byz big style
me: oh? good thing France has such crappy contact...
Krill: Byz are basically Exploits biggest supporters it seems. they can get sunk together
me: Babylon thinks they can handle Byz?
Krill: probably can tbh
me: without horses or copper?
Krill: between mali and Babs, could be trading resources. could be prepping to double slave out an army. lots of ways it works
me: I don't know what Mali has. we'll get resource visibility on Babylon once we get Sailing. there's one monster river that runs from London to Genesis and halfway to HRE
Krill: Wouldn't surprise me, there is probably only 1 river on the entire map
me: heh, could be. There's a tile in our territory that would've had 21 rivered tiles
Krill: ugh. should have planted there, ultimate IW city
me: Would've conflicted with a horse city directly. we got Pigs, dry wheat, and horses and 17 river.
Krill: decent enough
me: France's copper isn't mined much less connected
Krill: you got horses?
me: yeah
Krill: slave 2 charitos and kill the city would be my best guess. they don't have archery and can't hook up metal. that would be the aggressive way to play it
me: right
Krill: if you waited a bit, get out the chariots manually then slave 3 HA once HBR is in. so you have archery btw?
me: No
Krill: ok
me: need Aztec contact
Krill: how is contact with ruff coming along?
me: no clue, you said you'd organize their chariot stopping by since we're going SW to meet India's warrior that's going NE
Krill: ugh ok do you have hunting?
me: yes, HRE
Krill: depending on speed might have to research archery yourselves. and we pass Monarchy over to Mali. Need to think about this. Well, thought about it
me: we can get Archery in 3t
Krill: it comes down to how much you want to wreck France
me: at 100%
Krill: ok
me: I need to talk it over
Krill: how much gold would you have at the end? oh, definitely
me: 120?
Krill: ok
me: Oh, less. we're building our 4th city soon. so, 115? At ~-18gpt to research? Monarchy will take us about 8-9t at 100% if we've got Mono. especially if we're running AF scientists for a GSci for something
Krill: ok.
me: who all knows about this? Babylon + Mali in, France out?
Krill: HRE, Portugal
me: I think we can get 4 chariots to hit Lyons on T76
Krill: hmm
me: if that's what we decide to do. HAs wouldn't be too far behind
Krill: HRe, Portugal, myself, Ottomans, and Carthage have been informed. Basically, everyone that is teching
me: Have Babylon and Mali been formally welcomed? or informed?
Krill: Portugal emailed them back. no word as of yet.
me: Archery research would also let us help Babylon. We'd have it available to trade on T70
Krill: ok
me: and probably 110 gold, actually
Krill: that is a plus point to it. ok now need to figure out how long it would take babylon to research currency
me: probably not all that long. T90-93? They'll get their academy very soon. if they don't have their Academy by T73, they're misplaying Pericles and Kyan and Twinkletoes wouldn't do that
Krill: they said they get it in 6 turns and are saving gold
me: are they able to put their scientist beakers into Currency already?
Krill: Nope, I don't have contact with them [OOC: Need Math or Alpha]
me: I notice you gained contact with Byzantium this turn.
Krill: Yup
me: what did you do?
Krill: just basically had a massive pissing contest with them
me: heh
Krill: Do you remember what happened between Kalin and me? in RBPB1
me: been a while the early game blended together a bit. you threatened a lot of people. the Sailing extorting was a CMOA, IMO
Krill: CMOA?
me: Crowning moment of awesome. it was just a great example of your negotiating style
Krill: Would you believe it if I said I just got offered a job as a sales executive because of how I play civ?
me: the thing is, you're not nice. Salesmanship is usually about sweet-talking them into doing what you want. Or, your style isn't. salesman shouldn't be blunt, and "I'm going to kill your scout if you don't give me something" is rather blunt
Krill: Yup
me: sidetracked, you were going over Kalin and you
Krill: Ah, it was just Kalin refusing to accept an NAP
me: that was another bullying moment, leading up to Lins Lost
Krill: yup. Just arguing going back and forth. this was along the same lines but tbh, I kinda want him angry. because 10v6 they don't have a hope in hell
me: especially given the state of at least one of their 6...
Krill: yeah
me: I don't have a clue where Orleans is. I was hoping France would come online was hoping to chat with them before this broke, get an informal, get-to-know-you type of thing
Krill: uh
me: maybe get them to tell me their tactical situation because of Babylon's tactical army
Krill: don't tell france about this
me: of course not. they're still a good member of CAN as far as they're concerned
Krill: indeed
me: Sorry, Byzantium's the one who's been prepping for chariots and is directly south of France
Krill: yeah
me: we might still be able to get Monarchy, just early 80s instead. if Lyons falls
Krill: and get the gold? sound
me: yeah. Let's see, a city founded T63, taken T76, how much gold would that be?
Krill: I don't know. I think it depends on size as well?
me: well, that's enough time to be size 2. or, size 2 & then whipped
me: When do you think you could hit France?
Krill: Depends. I don't know where they are, so not sure on traveling time. and I need to get horses back from Portugal and position my workers to chop out the chariots. not sure
me: you know the corn near where we met?
Krill: yeah?
me: Paris is 23E of there, and a few tiles south. Lyons is NW of there, and we've got that. Orleans, I don't know. Paris 29E of Carthage's gold and 3S
Krill: 64-29=35w
me: right
Krill: so 16w of my capital
me: that would make sense. I think they mis-moved the Paris settler and moved back
Krill: It would make sense
me: except then it started way north of us like a good 4 tiles. London is 5S of Paris, and we moved 1SE [Actually 6S]. I'm glad Math is going to be coming in soon enough to make a difference
Krill: yeah
me: I think we could get 6-8 HAs to go with those 4 chariots able to hit Paris by T90 without hurting infrastructure too much
Krill: You, me and HRE need to get together to plan out that assault
me: right
Krill: ideally the sooner the better to stop France from trading for metal
me: agreed. HRE disappeared from chat just before you'd told me they knew
Krill: Ilios has router issues btw
me: ah
Krill: you use teamspeak?
me: I can
Krill: need to set up a cadre that uses it
me: for military planning, it's great, since we don't have to alt-tab
Krill: yeah
me: the problem is going to be getting a fair land split with HRE. we need the copper city whether it's Lyons or rebuilt, and Paris isn't viable for them
Krill: Probably better to rebuild tbh meh
me: depends on how much they contribute
Krill: even if we just raze everything and partition the land afterwards,
me: they're not going to get much. we'd let them get 1 site to the west, and that's all the land left between our two civs. outside of the copper + sheep. Paris and Orleans won't need to be razed, although they might have to be gifted around.
Krill: they are a little far to hold onto though
me: Paris isn't that far for us
Krill: maintenance toroidal screwing with it is what I mean
me: true. Micro question: Stables or not at our city that's going to be looking at 300 hammers (including chops) by the early 80s? We might build a worker or 2, but most of it would be for HAs. barracks is up
Krill: basically, stable is one less HA
me: right
Krill: so if you plan on getting nothing but HA from that city. then you get 5HA that are 2star, or 6 that are one star. I'd go with the 2star if you think we will have overwhelming numbers
me: I think we will
Krill: because 2star HA just own archers
me: and can deal with spears
Krill: and shock is so important for damaging any possible spears, so I think it is worth the investment. yup
me: Also would let us get a sentry chariot or medic
Krill: go with stables then
me: thanks, 1 stable will do us a world of good

[Cyneheard]

Well, the diplo day wasn't over yet. Babylon came on, and I had a running conversation with them and Krill.

They have their own copper, but horses are a reach. The copper we've seen is really Byz copper.

Also, there's a good chance the Exploit is screwed. I shed no tears.

me: Congratulations, we're glad things changed.
Pericles: hey. thanks. i doubt you had too little a part to play either as Portugal said there were other civs strongly backing taking us. byz are gonna go mental though, fun times
me: definitely. we'll have Archery available T70
Pericles: im not scared of them at all to be honest. portugal has hunting and that's the key one all byz have are chariots
me: right, we saw your copper. that's not inside territory
Pericles: oh. so you didn't see the other one?
me: there are 2 right there? that's crazy
Pericles: that's hooked up to a barracks productions powerhouse? . nah, we took the one to the west got lucky, exodus has some
me: oh, did not know that
Pericles: sorry am speaking to mali. will get back to you shortly if you're still about
me: that's fine, take your time. did Portugal research Hunting? You can check through F4
Pericles: yes. our production has dipped at the moment purely because of the scientists but will shoot up again soon enough with a couple of riverside mines
me: militarily, we're not likely to be much help against Babylon. France takes priority. Byzantium. I always get your names confused. I know who I'm referring to but say the wrong one EVERY time
Pericles: its cool. we wouldnt need help with them tbh. archery would be nice of course but 2-3 spearmen would kill them off
me: aye, we need it anyway for when HBR comes in
Pericles: if they try to hook that copper (their only source) we could stop them pre-emptively
me: how are you going to tell CANT? France only has contact with us, HRE, and Ottomans.
Pericles: well yeah thats the thing lol. byz will send chariots at us asap so we may need to be discrete until we have a couple spearmen
me: It'll be obvious when you get Hunting and Archery so it's up to you when you want those
Pericles: my main thought is not leaving them but rather telling them i won't be researching the tech i was supposed to be providing for the group lol
me: what were they expecting from you?
Pericles: HBR
me: ouch
Pericles: its only maya and byz im gonna feel bad for. inca are daft. hi we're joao of inca so we're gonna rush someone with an early UU
me: Exploit is Exploit
Pericles: exploit just twists them to his whim and i don't like it at all
Pericles: oh not sure if hydra know but academy in 6t
me: Krill does
Pericles: it's 1 turn late im afraid. blame TT he decided to play the turn and i'd stopped writing ingame signs with directions
me: well, I told him "If they don't have an Academy by T73, they're misplaying Pericles" and then Krill said that it was 6t away
Pericles: he saw a worker on a forest and moved him off mali is worried about attack from maya
me: any word on the India/Maya war?
Pericles: can i ask what techs would we be able to get asap?
me: Fishing, Hunting Archery Sailing
Pericles: yeah got a bit, i'll have to fill you in, in a bit tho. theyre just hanging around with chariots. war wont happen now imo
me: HRE is getting HBr Ottomans IW and Carthage Maths. those are all coming in soon, like early 70s
Pericles: how comes you dont have alpha? i can get HBR by ~73. but it would be much more efficient to save gold and then grab currency as krill is suggesting that way we go 100% with our academy up
me: Want to slow down Exploit getting Alpha. we'll get it when we need to give someone something
Pericles: also, as members of hydra/CAN- would we be guaranteed to get those techs you mentioned earlier IW etc
me: yes, once you've met them
Pericles: ok cool
me: Especially if you can meet both Egypt and Carthage it'll come in pretty quick on Currency. what, 15t you think? once you start researching?
Pericles: for currency
me: yeah
Pericles: i guess. i haven't had chance to login and see at moment. in a few convo's at once despite the busy tag hehe
me: of course
Pericles: (that's not a dig btw)
me: that's what happens when things change
Pericles: indeed. mali are just fretting a bit
me: CAN is in a much stronger position especially with you two aboard
Pericles: i think they want to ask if we can stick with heracles for first round of trades (maths etc) then split but bear with me. can you ask krill the exact specifics of the deal if we both joined please?
me: ok
Pericles: NAP's with other members etc
me: NAP between Babylon, Mali, Carthage, England, HRE, Ottomans, Egypt, India, Portugal in Aztec. Basically, play and be nice. Ancient era techs for free
Pericles: further techs in accordance with us researching for the team?
me: more info following, one second
Pericles: sorry
me: np. Providing Carthage are OK with it (still waiting to hear back)
they get maths and Alphabet upfront from me and Carthage
and they need to research Currency asap. we're working on Monarchy, that might be early or mid 80s depending on some things
Pericles: ok, what about mali's research?
me: [Quoting Krill]: but say if they research Currency they basically get HBR and IW as well once they are finished and they get contact with teh researching civs. Do you know your bpt at 100% and breakeven, as well as gold at 0% (assume Academy)?
Pericles: i'll log in and check. it will be increasing soon. as we gain 2 hamlets over the next 2 turns
me: ok
Pericles: 93gold next turn stored up
me: Mali would probably go for Calendar or Aesthetics
Pericles: around 45bpt at 100% currently factoring in academy but we will be settling with gold in first ring also so that's gonna keep heading up and up.
Pericles: i can increase that beaker yield also but i think i'll probly need to ceiling it there to maintain some production
me: right. relative to the Byz capital, do you know where your NE scout is? Krill wants to make sure he meets you.
Pericles: yeah, nowhere near it. we're 13N, 8E of genesis, which is 4S and 12W of his capital
me: you know Krill's capital location?
Pericles: the unit is woodsman 2 warrior so he should reach him fairly rapidly. i do and now he knows ours
me: actually, I didn't mention the genesis bit
Pericles: thanks
me: straight west with your warrior
Pericles: unless his unit NE of byz is a 2 mover, i think i'll hit his borders before he hits mine. west?
me: he's got a 2-mover yes west
Pericles: rgr that. he'll need to have contact with mali also. i'll find out where their scouts are
me: ok. the Egyptian warrior near Byz's capital has a short life expectancy
Pericles: i know
me: Krill: so unless they can somehow get byz to lay off without arousing suspicion, Mali are more likely to havbe to try and find me
Pericles: bugger all i can do about it tho
me: thought so
Pericles: i can't really. Bobchillingworth and Krill didn't see eye to eye at all . seems bob went super aggresive then krill promised to wipe him out, so... yeah. are we (mali and us) right in assuming that there are plenty of sub-groups within the hydra? if so, where would we stand there
me: implicitly. well, us-Carthage-Krill seem to be getting along well
Pericles: as us and mali have often said, we see our little triangle as having considerable power going forward. well if krill is playing how i suspect he is, he's gonna have significant gold to throw around
me: oh yeah
Pericles: mali would long term be financer and us researcher then?
me: Probably, since you'll have the academies. Carthage as a researcher. We've got crappy commerce land so will probably fund with toroidal costs on Emperor
Pericles: leviticus is a sweet commerce city but gonna have to get it reinforced in short order
me: and Deuteronomy is going to have the golden calf
Pericles: indeed, haha
me: which would only be even more hilarious if that had been Exodus
Pericles: it so nearly was but thankfully we found better land
me: and a bit of a reach
Pericles: the gold spot is significantly nearer us than our other cities well maybe not levi
me: I don't see us staying friends with the HRE for very long
Pericles: well, would krill see 'us' as allies long term i.e. when hydra begins to eat itself? we have fairly secure locations once the dmg has been done to heracles
me: he wanted a Carthage-Krill-England row (France's days are numbered), and then either you/Mali or Ottomans/HRE and I definitely suggested you/Mali. let me rephrase that, if you and Mali do join, then France's days are numbered.
Pericles: which i cant see a downside to
me: neither do we
Pericles: much like the rest of our land, the stuff we immediately see isn't the land of milk and honey
me: well, you'll have to wait for Joshua for that.
Pericles: i currently have city sites 4,5 and 6 marked out and possibly 7 but that one im still unsure of. oh did i mention i found horses?
me: no, you hadn't. figured you must've being the HBR civ
Pericles: wish i hadn't. would have made me less annoyed. they're in the desert with no possible way to get a floodplains and the horses in the same BFC
me: well, that'll only cost you 40 years to hook them up. they're on a desert tile??? or just, amongst desert
Pericles: amongst on plains
me: ok, wouldn't have wanted Sullla to be too obvious with the edits
Pericles: only way i could do it, is use the 1 tile of mini-lake that's there that has 1 grassland and 2 plains and build a shit heap of a city
me: that sucks. Animal Farm is a great horse city, but, no copper unless we take it from France
Pericles: well, with sailing we can help once we have a few spearmen
me: IW should be available soon enough
Pericles: maybe a chariot for axe swap or whatever true expects iron at every capital
me: we'll reevaluate our metal needs once that happens. it better be
Pericles: would be nice
me: ideally, one of our grass hills that are already mined
Pericles: will make Genesis an absolute powerhouse in representation down the line
me: we do have stone if you think you're crazy enough to do a 'Mids run at some point
Pericles: i considered oracling metal casting, chopping a forge and running engineers to rush it at one point. lol. but decided oracle would go before i made it which was apparently a wise decision
me: well, it did go pretty early
Pericles: and interesting to hear about your stone. we have marble who happened to resarch masonry from your chaps?
me: India
Pericles: ok ta
me: do you know when Exploit's supposed to finish Alpha?
Pericles: t71
me: awesome, thanks. EOT, or trading that turn?
Pericles: eot i believe. you guys taking him down before then?
me: not that I'm aware of. Do you know who's got Hunting? Maya/Byz/Rome/Inca?
Pericles: sumeria only atm
me: thanks, the inside info's good to have
Pericles: it's ok. i have a LOT more info currently but would rather wait a little bit
me: I'm sure, understood
Pericles: it's awkward because maya and byz are REALLY nice people and im already screwing them over. i don't need to piss in their wounds also lol
me: Understood. Krill says that they're going to try to get Exploit in time but he might hold at least with some life
Pericles: im happy with exploit gone
me: Byz and Rome might not be
Pericles: if you can confirm that he's basically crippled or at least forced to whip before his alpha date it would help a lot. if he whips, his alpha time dies
me: I don't know the plans, we're not part of the discussion and don't have full contact. do you know if he has copper? Exploit?
Pericles: can you poke krill if you dont mind? i dont like using you as messenger but yeah. lol. ill try find out. sec
me: I don't mind being the middleman. Krill is around
Pericles: currently he thinks he's toast and is demanding everyone's armies. sigh
me: so, I take that as a "no copper"?
Pericles: "After discussions with Maya and Byzantium I have changed my production around such that I will be able to build my own non-warrior units to defend myself by Turn 75 (6 turns earlier then the original plan). Assuming my math is correct, I will still finish Alphabet on Turn 71 (if my math is wrong then it will be Turn 72 at the latest) however there is no longer any chance of me finishing Alphabet before Turn 71.
Regards,
Exploit" looks like a hell no to me. i guess the divert to hunting was a bluff
me: that was foolish of him he'd have Alpha already
Pericles: indeed
me: yeah, another reason to get you and Mali to switch: CANT is going to be way behind if Exploit dies too soon, who's going to get Alpha for them?
Pericles: well, i was going to if i had to but yeah, now only Maya would be viable to be honest if exploit is crippled they're toast
me: that's the idea. By the time they trade Alpha around, it'll be T85-90 and we'll have Monarchy and other goodies
Pericles: yum. monarchy is perhaps my favourite tech. how invested is Krill in that by the way?
me: having to pick up Archery is going to slow it down a little. I'm the Monarchy civ
Pericles: oh. sorry must have misread
me: Krill's contributed Alpha
Pericles: Mali could have got it fairly quickly i guess ... duh. im tired
me: If we get enough gold from France, we'll probably be able to finish Monarchy in the early 80s. if we don't get city cash, then it might take a little longer but only a few turns
me: I should run, let you sleep. good to have you guys on the team
Pericles: take care pal and thanks
me: cya

More Krill, simultaneous with Babylon chat

me: oh, Babylon does have copper
Krill: oh goody
me: wasn't obvious, because they've got a 2nd source 2 tiles outside their culture, contested with Byz
Krill: well they can have that as well as far as I am concerned
me: agreed. just, that wouldn't be available in time to fight
Krill: I need to stop roleplaying Vetinari
me: it's going to get you killed. Vetinari is far too dangerous a man to leave in the game.
Krill: Just would the game be any better for you if I'm dead
me: no, it wouldn't. At least, not yet.
Krill: It's going to be a fun balancing act :D
me: it will
Krill: Have you met Babylon btw?
me: oh yeah. we've met everyone but Portugal (next turn), India, Aztec, and Rome.
Krill: Jammy. I still need to meet Exploit, Rome, Inca, maya, Babs, Mali and France. Considering I killed Korea though, no one will meet as many teams as me
me: ... well, who knows. Someone else might die before you meet them like Exploit
Krill: Good point there
me: Babylon wants the exact specifics of the deal if they join, including NAPs and so on
Krill: ok. NAP between Babylon, Mali, Carthage, England, HRE, Ottomans, Egypt, India, Portugal in Aztec. Basically, play and be nice. Get ancient era techs for free. Providing Carthage are OK with it (still waiting to hear back) they get maths and Alphabet upfront from me and Carthage and they need to research Currency asap. You can comment about Monarchy if you want
but say if they research Currency they basically get HBR and IW as well once they are finished and they get contact with teh researching civs, but don't say who is researching what [OOC: I'd already mentioned who was on HBR and IW already by the time he said that. Oopsie?]
me: what does Mali do?
Krill: Ask them for the economic details so, bpt at 100% science and breakeven and gold produced while saving etc. Also ask if they have Sailing or contact with portugal;
me: they don't have Sailing but have contact with Portugal
Krill: ok, that works. Possibilities are Calendar Aesthetics. don't mention monarchy. Still not really wanting to risk the possible backstab so want construction and Monarchy to be in "our" hands
me: right, although the NAP between us and them was signed after they knew about CAN
Krill: ok
me: Babylon is their HBR civ so stealing them would be a huge coup
Krill: oh wow yup
me: after only Alphabet, that is the tech we want to delay as much as possible. As of T68, they'll have 93 gold with the academy, they're looking at 45bpt @ 100% plus city #4 will have gold
Krill: ok. they won;t have to start until they meet me, or t70 so they have extra turns to save gold. and when do they get the academy?
me: 6t
Krill: don't want them researching until they have the academy in place
me: right. that should be about right, then. 515 base beakers if they've got Math as well
Krill: yup they will have both techs. Also, can you ask them for one specific peace of information for me?
me: aye
Krill: I would like to know the position of their NE scout, relative to the Byz capital so I can triangulate the position to try and meet it
me: They have a woody II warrior 4S and 12W of your capital. no, I did not tell them where your capital is, that was already known
Krill: ok, tell them to head straight west. I'll try to meet them with a war chariot just got to deal with a barb warrior atm mow him down and I'll be on my way
me: right. ok, he'll be moving west. Mali contact, as well, is needed. Babylon's getting that info
Krill: tell them that byz are likely to toast my warrior that is next to the byz capital so unless they can somehow get byz to lay off without arousing suspicion, Mali are more likely to have to try and find me
me: not possible. let loose the dogs of war!
Krill: meh
me: it seems you made Bob angry
Krill: cool goal achieved then
me: right. but who's going to be your first casualty? what's the warrior's name?
Krill: Abba Stronginthearm. named my warriors after the watch charactors that died in NightWatch
me: I saw Keel
Krill: He is dead 94% chance to win, and dies
me: yeah, we lost a 95%er. Making extreme odds (say, 90% plus) be auto-wins would be a good change for Civ 5. this 50-50 tweaking business..yuck
Krill: Yup. I feel exactly the same way
me: T71 Exploit Alpha
Krill: end of turn or trading on that turn?
me: EOT
Krill: cool, still on target then. question: ask Babylon who has hunting out of the CANT: Maya, Byz Rome, Inca. Because Exploit don't. I don't think the latter two have either
me: Sumeria has Hunting???
Krill: doesn't no spears. I'm just wondering if Sumeria can even trade for Hunting
me: "me: not that I'm aware of
Do you know who's got Hunting?
Maya/Byz/Rome/Inca?
Pericles: sumeria only atm" if we had Alpha, we could tell you but that gives Exploit +2% on Alpha
Krill: ok I'm going to ask Ruff about that. Ruff has contact with Exploit and alphabet. should should be able to check
me: aye: "Pericles: eot i believe, you guys taking him [Exploit] down before then? me: not that I'm aware of"
Krill: Tell him that was the original aim, not sure if it is doable but giving it a go. At the very least, Exploit isn't coming out of it in one piece
me: and forcing him to whip will slow him down
Krill: yup
me: "if you can confirm that he's basically crippled or at least forced to whip before his alpha date it would help a lot. if he whips, his alpha time dies"
Krill: hmmm
me: will they threaten the cities in time?
Krill: he does have hunting. does he have copper though?
me: one second
Krill: he probably doesn't he has to be trading for it
me: Exploit "is demanding everyone's armies"
Krill: he doesn't have sailing so can't trade. np
me: "After discussions with Maya and Byzatium I have changed my production around such that I will be able to build my own non-warrior units to defend myself by Turn 75 (6 turns earlier then the original plan). Assuming my math is correct, I will still finish Alphabet on Turn 71 (if my math is wrong then it will be Turn 72 at the latest) however there is no longer any chance of me finishing Alphabet before Turn 71.
Regards,
Exploit
looks like a hell no to me
i guess the diver tot hunting was a bluff
*divert". so, no, Exploit has no copper
Krill: he doesn;t have archery. fireworks are still primed and ready to go
me: even he wouldn't be that pushy if he had some defenses
Krill: Possibly

[haphazard1]

Lots of changes in the wind, seemingly.

Our relations with Babylon are good, and with Mali are decent enough. Add Carthage and we have solid relations with about 60% of our perimeter.

Not sure about the whole war with France -- what are we getting out of this that we were not already going to get? The copper city, which will be a nice addition eventually, is a positive. But we spend a lot of hammers on troops rather than infra or growth, Monarchy gets delayed (hurting us more than other civs since we have fewer happy resources), we burn gold on Archery rather than getting it in trade, and we lose the sheep/wine site to HRE. This does not really seem like all that great a deal for us.

Maybe it is necessary to maintain relations within the cartel. But I would feel better with more tangible evidence that we are not just being encouraged to expend our available chops attacking France, leaving us without any quick military reserve to defend ourselves. The French may not be the only civ whose lands are being mentally divided up by others.

[haphazard1]

Well to be fair, the guys in the south are also stuck in desert and we have a ridiculous amount of food.

I do not agree that we have a ridiculous amount of food. We have 3 cities (soon to be 4) which have 2 food resources each. For each city at least one of those resources is relatively weak -- dry wheat, sheep, pigs on hill, dry rice. This is hardly extravagant, although it is decent. Of course, we placed our cities to get that food -- there is plenty of land in our first ring which is food-poor. Drunken Pigs and the silks to the southwest of London...not exactly great sites.

Our land is not horrible by any means. We have decent food, horses, furs, stone, lots of river tiles, and a nice variety of Calendar resources. We have the gimmick jungle silver, but everyone has that. Hopefully we have iron, somewhere. But the lack of copper and gold, which many civs seem to have, is a significant problem in the early game.

What would an extra happiness on line 15-20 turns ago have done for our civ? Not to mention the commerce from a gold tile? Or copper for military? Horses are nice to have, yes. But a copper civ vs. a horse civ in the ancient era, assuming two human players who know what they are doing, is very bad news for the horse civ.

With some luck and no backstabs, we will actually get IW in trade as promised and will have some metal available. We will have a decent shot at survival then.

[Cyneheard]

On T71, any worker who's on a forest will have the orders canceled, just to be sure that HBR is available on T72. Just a minor little micro note. If Math isn't in on T70, then the same thing at EOT70 (no chops will complete on T70 anyways).

The other thing is, with France dead, that land is pretty much going to fall to us and Egypt. Yes, it will take some time for us to claim all of it. But we can't survive with barely room for 6 decent cities; we'll get a N-S line around Paris' ruins. The corn to the east will be ours. The sugar-flood plains city would be secure, DP would still be good to go. Any civ that doesn't arrange a kill on their borders is going to be stunted long-term.

For infrastructure, there aren't a whole lot of needs in the short-term. An extra worker or two, and another settler for a 5th city, are basically it. BR will need to finish its barracks (the next 3 chariots out of it would be unpromoted, but that makes sure we have the numbers to drop Lyons); I'm not sure if it will need to finish its library. When Currency comes in, we might not have to research a single tech ourselves ever again; we'll have two researchers in the group, Carthage and either Mali or Babylon. Gibraltar can still build its own granary and some garrison units; it's not contributing. AF can still work the scientists for a GSci. We'd lose some production (probably limiting ourselves to just 4 HAs + stable out of AF) to get the GSci, but most of the hammers would be from working the horses and chops (210 hammers worth).

We'll have quite a tool to negotiate with the HRE with if we're the ones who grab Lyons. We can either burn it down, and resettle, or let them get the copper but we still get a sheep + spices city. That assumes we have iron, of course. I don't think we have to give up the sheep + wine spot.

And if Sullla didn't make sure that everyone has a secure iron source (I agree with Kyan: I think Iron will be at every single capital), then he's intentionally made it that some civs get screwed by the map. Royally screwed, not just hampered by a subpar start.

[Cyneheard]

T68

Worker movements were uneventful. Settler + Chariot are ready to settle Gibraltar next turn. Byz has a Woody I warrior 1S of where Gibraltar will settle, but he'll get kicked back a tile if he does. I'm not worried, though. Our chariot would have odds if he's on a forest, but not good odds (~70%). And he has a 1% chance to attack us and win.

Conan found another warrior. Same thing, move 1SW as planned, and grab the XP when the warrior suicides?

Edit: Conan only has 1 move left, so he can't attack the warrior.



Demogs:



Note: Our GNP is going to be absurd when we switch from the 1.2 multiplier of Archery to 1.4 for Monarchy, and start working the furs again (next turn).

At AF, if we don't go for the scientists, we'd be working a grass cottage and a plains hill mine for 2 food, 4 hammers, and 3 commerce (4 commerce later), instead of the 6 science. With the whip, that 2 food would also produce 4 hammers, so ~2HAs worth of production for making the GSci.

[haphazard1]

Trying to draw the barb warrior to attack us sounds good. I wasn't sure they would against a chariot's odds, but from the last one it seems likely they will. Just out of curiosity, what would our odds be for attacking on the hill? Not as bad as for a forest, but probably still more than we want to risk.

How much do we really want that GS? It seemed from the chats you have posted that it wasn't really looked on all that favorably. It is true that other civs could pull the same bulb; for a PHI civ it would be far easier than it would be for us. (Who in the cartel is PHI? Babylon I guess, although we are pretty sure they want the academy and not the bulb. Others?) We could skip the GS and take the additional production. Might fit our perceived role better.

[antisocialmunky]

Speak softly and carry a big stick. If are to be the hammer civ of the alliance, GGs would be more fitting :D

Yeah I'm not sure about the GSci either. A religion and a shine would be nice but spreading the word requires lots of hammers too but there is potential to build an alliance and help fund. May that would be worth it, maybe not. No way we can compete with Krill as a mid/late-game funder though with all his religions.

Decision Decisions. We can talk to Babylon about it.