WW26: The Masquerade [Game Thread]

[Rob The Filch]

I suppose you are right that I was wrong Rob. I still think telling others to kiss your ass is not the right way to interact with each other. Anyhow, I'm sorry that I aggravated you, I sure had my part in that whole episode as well.

Muriel knows where the kiss my ass comes from I believe. In fact it was more of a joke than an insult if you know where it's from. After I posted it I realized that not everyone would understand though, so I apologize for that as well.

I do not want to engage with Muriel anymore and I won't. I believe she was intentionally trying to piss me off. And yes she succeeded. I don't know if I will continue playing, this game has been more aggravating then most. But your apology goes a long way to bringing me back from the brink. I know you just had meta tunnel vision, it was just so frustrating to see the "we must do this" mentality. It was bad play not to let things ride out and I tried to explain that but I feel as though I was ignored and shut down no matter what. No point in continuing.

[Widow Edith]

Edith I find it hilarious that you decide to look through my posts trying to paint me scum without saying that? Let me save you the trouble. All of my posts are focused on Muriel because I'm 100% convinced she's scum. So far I haven't seen anyone else lynch a wolf.

But what gets me is that All of a sudden, you're going to start trying to go through my posts. You haven't done this to anyone else in the game and this is the first time you haven't just sat on the side. Congratulations it only took someone calling you out to actively try to participate. Your attitude is a 180. Scared?

You claimed that I ignored your questions I have now gone through your posts to prove that this accusation is not true.

That is not misrepresenting that is not a misunderstanding that is 1 big fat Lie you told here.

[Widow Edith]

If you are looking for where you ignored me Edith, I particularly felt that you ignored this post of mine, and this is mostly what I was referring to.

BTW: novice had just 60 posts when he was lynched D3 Muriel has now already 45

Novice was not fully attacked until that day. Muriel has been under fire and defensively posting since the very beginning. To ignore that fact is not accurately representing the two situations. Post count goes up when actively defending.

I will admit that lynching Muriel straight-away does not give us as much information, but then that is why I voted for Sister Mary earlier, to push on a connected point and see what information I could find.

Just to show you that I was not lying or slandering when I said you ignored my posts.

And that's all you can come up now: That's your multiple posts I ignored?
What did I ignore here? You are omitting your previous post to it. You use novice in WW25 I say novice had just 60 posts on D3 you say he was not attacked until then so what? Did you want to start a discussion how novices posts in WW 25 show clearly that Muriel is a wolf in WW26 or what?

I don't know if I will continue playing, this game has been more aggravating then most. But your apology goes a long way to bringing me back from the brink. I know you just had meta tunnel vision, it was just so frustrating to see the "we must do this" mentality. It was bad play not to let things ride out and I tried to explain that but I feel as though I was ignored and shut down no matter what. No point in continuing.

And this post screams Drama-queen to me. That's exactly the playing on emotions which was already mentioned in this thread.

[Rob The Filch]

I'm not on my computer so this is hard to parse and reply correctly but bear with me. Some of your comments mean nothing really, but some are misleading or incomplete.

One note. You say that I say not voting Muriel means you're scum. I have never said that. I have said that I believe that Muriel is a wolf and I think people are ignoring the content because she posts a lot and large amounts. I call villagers sheep who don't recognize this. You are deliberately twisting my words.

After I answered his question about novice he is not happy with it:

BTW: novice had just 60 posts when he was lynched D3 Muriel has now already 45

Novice was not fully attacked until that day. Muriel has been under fire and defensively posting since the very beginning. To ignore that fact is not accurately representing the two situations. Post count goes up when actively defending.

I will admit that lynching Muriel straight-away does not give us as much information, but then that is why I voted for Sister Mary earlier, to push on a connected point and see what information I could find.

Note he is still sure that Muriel is scum and he concedes that lynching Muriel straight-away is not giving that much information. Now I'm puzzled First it was a clear sign of scumminess to not lynch Muriel and now it is suddenly pro-townplay because it might give us more information? What is it Rob? Oh and there is no question for me in there.

This is where I say you ignore me. This is not a question yes. But it is elegant to the conversation. Ignoring does not mean not answering questions. Ignoring means not acknowledging that my point has been made. And again you have ignored my point. You ignored it again... Novice had a low post count when he wasn't defending and then gained a lot of posts after he was under fire. Muriel's been under fire the whole game and defending. So again you've ignored this point and instead are focusing on trying to make me look stupid? I think? That's what you are trying to do.

My response to your "which is it rob?": At this point were at day 2 in the game I referred to switching to sister Mary on day 1 as a fact finding mission. You seem to be intentionally ignoring this. I tried to get more information on day 1 by switching from Muriel to Mary and see what happened. In the end Muriel was still my number one scum so I ended the day on her. I don't think that is complicated.

One other thing that I find to be an attempt to smear me:

26= talk about modkill but omits that one can always ask the GM to get removed imediatly

Now that scarlet has been revealed as a village power role you still want to try and smear me for trying to avoid a mod kill?

He doesn't come back till well after the lynch to tell us again how scummy those are that suspect him.

I was infuriated and nothing I said at that point on would have been productive. My position was clear. I went to cool off. I'm here now and Edith you never said you suspected me before now. And how was it not clear that I suspected you when you made that terrible post on night 1? Suspecting you is not something new...


In summary your posts just now don't prove anything other than that you did in fact ignore my point and that you are looking to smear me any way you can.

[Rob The Filch]

And this post screams Drama-queen to me. That's exactly the playing on emotions which was already mentioned in this thread.

Believe what you want. I asked brick to replace me if there were any unspoiled people signed up as replacements. If the aren't I will continue.


I don't think I will be playing for a while in future games. Not trying to evoke a reaction or sympathy or anything I'm just telling you how it is. These past few days have not been fun and I think being "anonymous" has made people meaner than usual.

Attack me for stating this opinion or being a drama queen or whatever you want. I've posted my reasons for thinking what I think. I'm too emotionally drain to care at this point. The village will either win or lose. But I'm just a single villager who's been outvoted and ignored both days.

[Widow Edith]

This is where I say you ignore me. This is not a question yes. But it is elegant to the conversation. Ignoring does not mean not answering questions. Ignoring means not acknowledging that my point has been made. And again you have ignored my point. You ignored it again... Novice had a low post count when he wasn't defending and then gained a lot of posts after he was under fire. Muriel's been under fire the whole game and defending. So again you've ignored this point and instead are focusing on trying to make me look stupid? I think? That's what you are trying to do.

Rob my point was clearly made :

At least she talked a lot and tried to get people talking which in my book is far better then sitting on the sidelines making jokeposts or keeping silent/not playing at all. Were all her posts wells of insight? No of course not but I rather have her alive and contributing. If she is scum she will betray herself (and maybe even her wolfbuddies) if we give her enough time.

I have highlighted my point that started it all. And yes the fact that she had already 45 posts and novice just 60 is tied into it. novice is even when he is in full defense-mode much more careful what to drop. Muriel is a lot more talkative and having a wolf Muriel alive a bit longer is better. You even admit it in your statement as you say

I will admit that lynching Muriel straight-away does not give us as much information, but then that is why I voted for Sister Mary earlier, to push on a connected point and see what information I could find.

That's your words directly agreeing at least partly that it might be smart to leave Muriel alive. I don't see what I should acknowledge anymore on the novice-point. IMO you tried to smear me with your "multiple posts " accusation and now try desperately to not look like a complete liar by using strawman-arguments.

One other thing that I find to be an attempt to smear me:

26= talk about modkill but omits that one can always ask the GM to get removed imediatly

Now that scarlet has been revealed as a village power role you still want to try and smear me for trying to avoid a mod kill?

I used this to show how prone you are to give false statements. How easy it is for you to not tell the truth when it fits you.

He doesn't come back till well after the lynch to tell us again how scummy those are that suspect him.

I was infuriated and nothing I said at that point on would have been productive. My position was clear. I went to cool off. I'm here now and Edith you never said you suspected me before now.

And another misinformation:

Part 2 those I have no problem to lynch
Rob the Filch: He tries to contribute but as soon he got suspected he broke off any communication and stormed out uttering insults. Also his play has done a turn to the worse. On D1 I thought him more of a villager. Today less so. I'm wary of people who start pro-town but get scummier each day (I call it the pling-syndrome of wolves).

And how was it not clear that I suspected you when you made that terrible post on night 1? Suspecting you is not something new...

Ah that's why you never mentioned me anymore nor tried to continue our conversation and also didn't even ask me about the multiple posts I ignored. You made 12 posts after our exchange but didnt attack me, pressure me,name me, ask me a question or vote for me in one of them. Yeah that's clearly a sign that you suspected me. And that you explicitly told Fat rose that she is your Nr2 after Muriel is also a clear sign of you suspecting me..

And you use the same tactic you used yesterday. Start a fight get emotional and end with a I quite whatever. We had this before Scum using words and getting emotional till finally sailing to victory.

[Muriel The Slow]

Ugh.

When exactly did you start suspecting Muriel, Kate? And why?

I may have overreacted to the lurker accusation.

Okay, so, first, I want to point out what I think is a misconception. While I did not post anything about Muriel during the first day, I must remind everyone that I missed the entire last half of the first day. I suppose that I have no way to prove it, but I was completely gone between post #119 and when I started catching up on the 20+ pages that I missed just prior to post #336.

At the time of post #119, I did not think that Muriel was especially scummy; while posts #27 and #34 (the last name = role posts) were meta speculation, they appeared reasonable to me; or, at least, the idea that someone would think that appeared reasonable to me. Early in the first day when there is nothing else to use, meta does not bother me at all (with the exception of "let's find out who everyone is!" which was undermining the game), and this wasn't even exceptionally bad meta. It was during this catching up that Muriel began to appear scummy to me, starting around post #153, when Muriel made (what I thought was) a bald-face lie that she never said anything about last names being connected to power roles, when a lot of her previous posts were solely about that very subject. Dr. Saul's argument was also a contributing factor to me starting to suspect Muriel, but this was the main initial point. It just seemed so weird to make such a contradictory statement, like she was trying to sow confusion. She later made a clarification of what she meant, that there was some sort of communication error between her and Dr. Saul about the difference between power role and role, but honestly, that seemed and still seems like splitting hairs. I don't really understand how saying that last names are connected to roles, but not to power roles, then saying that "Power roles are the roles with the most power" (post #157) and "when I say roles, it included both power roles and the rest" (post #173) Maybe I'm just confused about that. Muriel, could you (re?)explain exactly what you meant here? Her repeated accusations of Dr. Saul lying (like about post #34 appearing scummy) also appeared incredibly hypocritical in light of this "lie." I mean, she even states in post #153 that "Catching someone in a lie is one of the biggest wolf tells we could get."

The last minute run that saved Muriel and lynched a villager, one that I thought was very non-scummy, which maybe wasn't so much of a run (I saw a post by Agnes about that I might have been misinterpreting how that lynch, but can't find it now), "sealed the deal, " so to speak. Post #392 sums up how I thought at the time.

That being said, Muriel has been doing a lot besides that now, some of which doesn't appear super scummy (I agree with Sister Mary appearing scummy, even though it turns out she was a villager, for example, and I suppose claiming a power role is neutral at worst). I still think that Muriel appears scummy, but I am less sure than I was, especially if this was lying business was all built on a misunderstanding. As it appears to me, I just don't understand how Muriel could have meant anything but what she said, so I still see a lie, but if she can explain, that would be great. I suppose I can't easily switch off her, of course, or I would appear to be wavering too much, but for now, at least, she still appears to be genuinely scummy.

Alright I'll explain without using that terminology. We received a private message a few days before the game, that tells us what our abilities are, if any, and on which side are we on. In that private message, we also received a last name that was not mentioned anywhere else outside of that private message. Everything else in that private message was gameplay stuff, but (as we now know) that one secret word turned out to be just flavor. It did not make much sense for it to be just flavor, so I figured that it might be a gameplay mechanic and we should shut up about it until we know more. And the reason the last name is tied to the other things that we received in that private message, is because we received it in that private message. If we received our last names when we received our profiles, I would not have spent another thought on them, but because they were received later in the same manner as our other possible abilities, if they were a gameplay mechanic this is how you could keep them balanced, by them being pre-determined and interchangeable.

I agree with you that the mix-up in terminology was scummy. And that's why I now have a villager lean on you, because your reason for thinking I'm scummy makes sense to me. It also helps that you posted a big post explaining things, which is something I hope you will keep up doing :P

[Muriel The Slow]

Rob, there is one more thing I want to hear from you. If you are a villager, you are too emotionally invested against me to be of any use, so I will try not to discuss with you after this since nothing will come of it. But I want to hear you address this post that I made, just before you ragequit. Note that there are too many quotes for it to work properly, but in the last quote by me, I am quoting Courage and answering to her.

Village do not equate massive posts and large numbers of posts with innocence! Do not mistake all shorter, consice and succinct posters for scum. Do not be brainwashed sheep.

I can't stand it anymore. I wanted to wait until later in the day to start the wagon on you Muriel the Slow, but I can't stand your BS anymore. All game from the first post you've been writing long flowery language that goes on forever and is nauseating. You start reading it and you forget what the point was, but then you realize there is no point because its all empty fluff. There is little to no content there's nothing. Theres defensive fallbacks and offensive mudslinging. There's the vote for Friar Andrew to save yourself that you tucked in when it tepped the scales. a vote you made WITHOUT A WORD BEYOND HIS NAME. You? No explanation? No sorry but I have to do this? No it was done slyly and trying not to draw attention to itself. You act like a peacock and when its time to stick the dagger in the back you run silent.

You probably won't be lynched today because most of the villagers are spell bound, but by God I hope they wake up.

Oh, what a surprise, Rob is lying to get Muriel lynched!

Andrew isn't the only non-content poster. But I'm happy with the paradigm shift of lynching non-content posters instead of content posters. It's a good idea in general, since without content we can only lynch randomly and the odds would be against us. Taking a chance at catching a wolf staying low is at least better than lynching me, but only slightly better. That said I would much rather lynch anyone from my wolf lean list than Andrew. A thing in favor of the Andrew lynch is that it was set up by people I suspect to be villagers, which at least lowers the chances that it was a miss-lynch set up by a wolf.

Rose, I would be willing to vote Tom.

[quote='Lady Elizabeth' pid='396850' dateline='1374437942']
Mureil "wins" the tiebreak 35-24 assuming she makes a self defense vote.

I will make one if it comes to that. I have no desire to play a martyr.

[Muriel The Slow]

I suppose you are right that I was wrong Rob. I still think telling others to kiss your ass is not the right way to interact with each other. Anyhow, I'm sorry that I aggravated you, I sure had my part in that whole episode as well.

As for Muriel: I'm not sure I agree that she is a wolf. Yes the timing of her reveal is a little bit odd at first glance, but if you think about it, what difference would it make to wait till tomorrow? She could draw a nightkill on herself, but it seems that's her plan anyhow, to force the wolves to nightkill her, so the village doesn't need to waste a lynch on her. I don't like the pathetic tone of her post though, even though I believe her that she indeed is the double-voter. But her claim that wolves would have found out eventually is very weak. Those are the votes of D1 and D2 that both voted for the double-voted target and therefore could have had the double-vote:

D1: Bert the Bard, Know-Nothing Jon, Lady Elizabeth, Half-Nose Harry, Muriel the Slow, Fat Rose
D2: Bert the Bard, Know-Nothing Jon, Lady Elizabeth, Half-Nose Harry, Muriel the Slow, Fat Rose

That's 6 players. I doubt that wolves were anywhere near having identified the owner of the double-vote. And if the wolves do have 2 nightkills every night that game might well be over before they would have found out. Still, as said above, if she wants to draw a nightkill onto herself it doesn't matter if she reveals who the role has.

The longer the game goes, the more powerful the double vote becomes. But the longer the game goes, the more information the wolves will have to determine who the double voter is. It is highly unlikely that I would make it so far that it matters. I would have tried though, but in these circumstances I'd be happy just avoiding wasting a villager or vig kill on me, and forcing the wolves to do it. I also would have been forced to reveal if we started analyzing the double vote and if we tried to lynch someone else because we thought he was a double voter. I was surprised that almost everyone overlooked the double vote after Day 1 lynch happened. Was this the right way to play it? I think it is, but I could be wrong. If I was safe tomorrow, and people would have actually lynched someone scummier instead of me, then it was definitely the wrong choice to reveal. But I did not see that happening considering how close the votes have been this far and now I was wrong about two dead villagers. What makes this a really tough choice for you guys is that wolf-Muriel also would have claimed in some form at this very moment to save herself. Though she could only claim double vote if she really was the double voter, since else the real double voter would call her out.

Maybe coming clean even makes me look scummier, but I wanted you to have all the information available when you make your choice. Now I just cross my fingers and hope that with everything out in the open, you will make the right conclusions and the right decision.

[Sir Percival]

And how was it not clear that I suspected you when you made that terrible post on night 1? Suspecting you is not something new...

Ah that's why you never mentioned me anymore nor tried to continue our conversation and also didn't even ask me about the multiple posts I ignored. You made 12 posts after our exchange but didnt attack me, pressure me,name me, ask me a question or vote for me in one of them. Yeah that's clearly a sign that you suspected me. And that you explicitly told Fat rose that she is your Nr2 after Muriel is also a clear sign of you suspecting me..

it not scummy to focus on trying to lynch the most notable scummy influence on town. i certainly see where bob come from here. his suspicion of u is irrelevant while u are nowhere near block and muriel, clear #1 target, is rightfully being pushed.

And you use the same tactic you used yesterday. Start a fight get emotional and end with a I quite whatever. We had this before Scum using words and getting emotional till finally sailing to victory.

we also had this before with villager. it is complete null tell without baseline play emotion, so irrelevant this game.