WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[Jowy]

I voted Matt because he voted me without giving a reason.

Why didn't you vote for him when you replied to him much earlier? And he did give a reason, he thinks Azarius blocked the night kill that you were supposed to commit.
Why did you vote for Matt without an explanation if you think it's scummy to vote without giving an explanation?

[Qgqqqqq]

Why do you want to lynch Q over Matt?

Matt feels like a villager playing scummily.

Why did you vote Matt earlier? You didn't give any reason back then. I understand keeping your vote on Matt right now for self-defense, but there was plenty of time earlier to go for Q and gather support for it. At this point you have a 50% chance to live if we stay tied, and you are probably dead if Q comes online before deadline. You are just trying to save yourself, and if anyone jumped off you, you and Zak would make another one of your coordinated bandwagons on whoever will have more votes than you. We've let you two play as a pair due to your history, so it's not like the village would auto-lynch you for that if you manage to pull it off.

Why would novice be dead if I came online? I'm serious here, why do you assume based on our history that I would vote novice ahead of matt?

[Qgqqqqq]

Err, this should be post 660, I'm not sure how I mangled it that badly:

Well I keep considering suspects and coming up with reasons why they're probably town even though there are scummy sides to their play. I can't think of any reasons why you must be town though.

You've been very active in this game, but you've shown before that you're good at being active as scum. Your posts have generally been reasonable and you've agreed with Zak and lot (sometimes explicitly, sometimes by arguing points that I agree with). So I would say your game has been very reasonable, but at the same time I don't feel like you've stuck your neck out much.

So your summary of my play is that I've been active (which I've done before as scum), agreed with you and zak (who are reasonable people who I think I normally agree with too...) and played reasonably. I can see why any of those could be bad, but I'm not seeing a case there at all. Is it just that other people are more townish?
In which case I can't agree really, but ok.

And what do you mean about sticking my neck out?

Yeah, there are points in favor of pretty much everybody so it's not so easy to decide. I'd rather lynch Mattimeo than Novice, though.

Q, I believe I have answered the question that youwith you and zak a lot asked me, so why did you leave your vote on me?

I left your vote on because I checked in for 10 minutes, saw a post that looked odd and pointed it out. Like I said yesterday, I probably wouldn't have time yesterday to post, and I didn't even read the whole thread last night.

Since its come up, I'd much rather vote Jowy here, but I definitely think novice is more likely town then Matt.

Q leaving his vote on Zak and disappearing is pretty scummy. Wasn't his vote on Zak a placeholder?

It was, back when I thought Id had more time. I think I voiced my suspicions pretty clearly though, and I told you all along I'd be able to get back properly before lynch time. I also told you I would be away so its hardly deserting the thread.

Is it more scummy then Jkaen voting MJW and disappearing when it also looked like a placeholder and there would be no chance to lynch him?

[Qgqqqqq]

Why did you vote for Matt without an explanation if you think it's scummy to vote without giving an explanation?

Novice often votes without an explanation. Normally there's one he posts later on, like with me.
He's been doing this all game, and IIRC every game I've seen, why did you jump on this one (where he actually explained at the time IIRC)?

[Jowy]

Your vote being on Zak, Novice being scared, and Novice trying to lynch you are things that made me think you'd vote novice. I was wrong :/

[Jowy]

Well, if you guys are right, then it's a village win. Let's hope for that.

[Qgqqqqq]

I just can't see novice as scum Jowy :/
I'd probably lynch zak before matt, but not novice.

Dude I already corrected you. I think this is where you think I said it:

Jowy, since I'm one of your top suspects, I would be interested in hearing a scenario from you on how night two went now that you have it confirmed that I visited novice.

Ah right! That does make it seem very unlikely that you are scum together. It improves your position individually as well, as we now know you have an ability that you can use on someone. Could still be a fake claim by scum who has another ability, or a scum roleblocker. But I've talked a lot about odds this game, and the odds of you rolling wolf have gone lower now that we know for sure you did visit novice.

And I've since then talked more about both of them, but I'm just quoting this to show you where you took those words from and that you are misremembering what I was talking about.

Yes you said he was likely town (which was my point) but up to the post I quoted you are still considering him as among the top three wolf candidates (or at least you put them in a list of more likely), and if so, did you consider that you have the wolves nailed in zak/novice. Or do you not consider Azarius to be likely town, as in your post you say his play has been bad, but you also say that he is unlikely because we know he visited Novice?
So I guess I'm just confused by what your actual thoughts on them are, as you seem confused yourself on what to think of Azarius.

[Qgqqqqq]

Well, if you guys are right, then it's a village win. Let's hope for that.

I've been assuming 2 wolves left. Are you thinking differently?

[Jowy]

Well, if you guys are right, then it's a village win. Let's hope for that.

I've been assuming 2 wolves left. Are you thinking differently?

Yeah, but if Matt is one, then you just lynch me and Jkaen in whatever order, and that should be it. Unless the wolves are again making a sacrifice, seems like an overkill if they are.

To answer your question about Azarius, I think Azarius is scummy for his lurking during MJW lynch and for the timing of his reveal which benefited himself and not the village. But thinking about the events, things make more sense if he is a villager. If wolf, why not vote MJW like the other wolf? (I'm assuming Matt and Azarius aren't both wolves, I've explained earlier why I don't think they can both be wolves). Then he wouldn't have needed any villager credit by creating a no-kill in the night and revealing the next day. So instead the village would have had one less miss-lynch to catch the wolves, and the wolves would have had just as good cover. I've pointed out good and bad things about Azarius, and it is true I'm a bit conflicted on him, but I think he's earned his spot as my suspect.

[Jowy]

Btw the scenario in which Azarius would be a wolf, would be if scum made a gameplay mistake. They perhaps couldn't switch one of their MJW votes, either because the one who made it wasn't online, or because it would gather too much heat. I would be more inclined to think it's the first reason, because that would explain why Azarius didn't jump on MJW and instead waited for his scum buddy to come online and possibly save MJW.