RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[regoarrarr]

Aaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnd we have copper!!! :dancing5: :2dance:

Possible city where Bob is standing that grabs the fish (though the original one is better), but he'll move on to the copper next turn to see what else is out there.

Demographics - no score increases, no pop, no tech. Someone built a warrior but it's impossible to tell who. I could probably with a bit of work eliminate several people that it was NOT, but there's not really a point.

[Dantski]

I'd say we'd be pretty unlucky not to have another food resource eastish of the copper.

Good news anyway!

[Sullla]

It's fun reading these threads. I saw when you guys played the last turn that you didn't have copper revealed, but also realized that one more turn would see your warrior uncover it. Sometimes it does feel like being a creator god of sorts.

So on topic, any thoughts about where you'll send the first settler(s) as you continue to get more map info?

[Dantski]

As long as my hunch about another food resource is right, I figure we'd be looking to settle by the copper first. Saw a tile of jungle though so we'll have to explore a bit more to see if its a candidate for city 2 or city 4-5

[regoarrarr]

Moved Bob onto the copper. There are dyes 2SE of the copper, and fish 2S. I"ll post a screenshot after the next turn, since there's only one player left to play this turn, so it should come shortly. Also will do some demog analysis then.

I would think that, depending on what else is there (there is a bit of jungle), either 1SE of the copper or 1E will be city #2 (both coastal, both on the river)

[regoarrarr]

Okay - Alex moved to the NE and is facing a bear. With the 50% terrain, it's a coinflip battle, though I believe I've heard you win your first barb battle on Prince and I have to assume it's at least that good on Noble. Hope so!


Bob is hugging the coast, and hasn't found any other resources nearby. I will move him 1E on to the jungle hill next turn just to make sure.



I did get an email from sunrise. I had emailed him since I could see his borders. When he didn't reply, I interpreted that as him not feeling our contact was "right" until we met.

Pleased to meet you! I'm not sure about whether we're within the spirit of the rules or not either. However the genie is out of the bottle, so lets meet in game and then we can chat. I'll station my warrior on the hill by the clam tile in 2 turns.

Unfortunately Bob has moved away from there and can't get back in 2 turns. I think it's more important for him to continue scouting rather than meeting sunrise. And actually, I should have another warrior or scout built after the worker, who completes next turn.

@Dantski - thoughts on what to build next? I do have one chop (20 hammers) available between camping the ivory and farming the rice. Warrior and scout? Where to send them? Plan for Bob is to continue circling around to the SE and E of the capital. One of these new units could meet sunrise and then scout. Or maybe if it's the warrior, then he could return to Cincinnati for garrison porpoises.

[regoarrarr]

Hey there! Unfortunately, when I did not hear back from you, I interpreted that as your feeling that we shouldn't talk, so I moved my warrior away. At the breakneck speed that this game is moving, he is now 5 turns away from that hill :-). I don't know if this warrior of yours is your only one, or if he needs to be out scouting or what, but if he's not going anywhere (or can return back to the hill), maybe we could meet in a few turns? 5 or 6?

I'll leave it up to you whether to continue corresponding via email, but I don't see a problem. If I go out to the globe view and turn on the culture overlay, I can see the pink of your borders, so to me, that's pretty much meeting in my book. Or maybe we could put it to a vote in the main thread?

Demo information - no new techs the past 3 turns, which I find interesting. Longest anyone has gone is m_h who last discovered a tech on T7.

Broker's 3rd ring (Buddhism fueled) popped on T16 - he now leads in land area at 28000. His fat cross has 17 land tiles and 4 water, so probably coastal.

Broker also grew to size 3 on T16, and Dreylin followed on T17. ZPV grew to size 2 on T17.

A few warriors being built but it's hard to tell who. I'm guessing that the one built on T17 was sunrise's, which makes sense that he would be able to go to the clams hill in 2 turns, since that tile is 2 turns from Madrid.

[Dantski]

Build depends on what you want to prioritize next. Don't have time to really look at it properly but...

War + Scout I have no major issues with. not sure how early we want to plant our 2nd city and do we want to settle the copper 1st? (Can decide precise position of it when warrior moves next turn).

I don't remember but are raging barbs on or off?

[regoarrarr]

I believe raging barbs are off - it's just normal barbs.

T18 played. The only demo note was m_h gaining a tech (And just after my post earlier today about how he was due!!). His city is still at size 1, and his only techs are Mysticism and the Wheel that he started with, and Fishing which I believe he researched on T7. 11 turns of research is too much for any starting tech, so it's likely a tech in the 150 beaker range. He can't research Animal Husbandry, and Sailing seems odd, so I'm going to go with Polytheism. He is Industrious, so the wonders that are at Poly, not to mention the Oracle, might seem attractive. It's possible that he decided he would try for Hinduism on T7 (which has since went to sunrise)

Alex survived his bear beating at 1.7/2. He could heal in 2 turns but for now I have kept him heading east. I really want to find the civ up here (if there is one).

Worker came in, put it at warrior - still working the 2 3/0/1 tiles. Hunting due in 1, and with an extra turn, I put it into chopping the forest 1S of the capital. I stopped movement so on T19 I will send him a-camping.

Got an email back from sunrise agreeing to send his warrior to the hill on T22 and wait for me. I also realized that (I think) when his borders pop (on I think T27) that he won't even need the warrior, but I did not tell him that.

Bob revealed no more resources near the copper but there are still 2 tiles in the fog that he will uncover next turn. I think that has to be our 2nd city, and founded soon. With no granary or cottages, what's the point in growing past size 3?

My thoughts now are warrior->scout->settler->worker (original worker moves to new city). I will try to do some sims tomorrow. We may even be able to lose the scout, but I do want to make sure to get to size 3 (currently it's growth in 6 and warrior in 7)

[regoarrarr]

Nice chat with sunrise. We apparently are agreeing that we have "met" ingame, at least for purposes of communication.

Sunrise: Hi regoarrarr
Sent at 12:08 PM on Monday
me: hey there sunrise
Sent at 12:09 PM on Monday
me: what's up?
Sent at 12:13 PM on Monday
me: brb
Sent at 12:15 PM on Monday
me: back whenever you are
Sent at 12:26 PM on Monday
Sunrise: sorry, back now
how are you?
me: not bad
what's going on
converting the world to the one true hindu faith?
Sent at 12:40 PM on Monday
Sunrise: not quite yet
I did want to let you know that I've met Dreylin, who lives on my landmass
me: ah nice
my thread post count foe!
Sunrise: so rather than monopolize him (he hasnt met anyone else yet) I'm going to try and get him to the same grassland hill tile to meet you
tell me about it (with post count) - I'm desperately trying to claw my way into 4th place, but it's hard without a teamate
me: heh
we should talk more :-D
i have met shadyforce who is on my continent
i will let him know about our summit (pardon the pun)
and he might be able to get over here.
he met me with a scout about 2 or 3 turns ago?
but headed east
when are your borders due to expand?
to cover that tile
Sunrise: right - that's the looming problem
they expand in only 4 tiles...that doesnt hurt me, but I imagine it licks Dreylin+Kalin out for some time
is it possible for you to get a unit there in time?
me: within 4 tiles?
let me check
so it's turn 19 right now, correct?
Sent at 12:58 PM on Monday
Sunrise: yes, though I just noticed the turn rolled over
me: right
Sunrise: i believe on T22 my borders will cover our summit tile
so I think Dreylin can stand on the tile only on T21
me: okay
can't do it then
the very earliest i could make it back to that tile would be T22
i'm 4 squares away
Sent at 1:01 PM on Monday
Sunrise: ok, I'll pass along the info the the Lin team
I still plan to meet you though
me: ok
what's your continent look like?
might there be another passage to the south?
i have just uncovered some more land to the south that appears to snake back west
Sunrise: I've not discovered much - I did a rotation around my capital's north, east, and south, and then panicked and raced the Lin team's warrior back towards my cap
me: did it look like they were heading there?
Sunrise: if there is a southern passage then it requires going west first....I have water on three sides of my cap, with to room for anything except coastal cities
I am told they considered declaring...they would have had a good chance of a coinflip for the city, but fortunately they choose not to play that way
FYI it seems that Dreylin is a more passive player and Kalin is more warlike
me: interesting
i don't know kalin very well
well i don't really know dreylin (or you or anyone) REALLY well
Sent at 1:06 PM on Monday
Sunrise: true...but it helps to learn something of peoples playstyles
me: agreed
Sunrise: and of course we PBEM lurkers have an advantage over M_H, Dreylin, and Ruff
me: heh
right - buncha builder pansies :-D
Sent at 1:09 PM on Monday
me: so here's a question for you that you can feel free to not answer if you'd rather not
are you planning on heading to monotheism for judaism?
Sent at 1:11 PM on Monday
Sunrise: possibly
Since you're a mysticism civ, are you pondering a run at a religion?
me: possibly
it occured to me that it might be useful to have
but it is a 3 tech detour away from some other things that are nice, of course
Sunrise: I'm pondering the option...unless another civ already has beakers invested in masonry, I believe I can get the tech first if I want...but as you say the detour is costly
I can definately see you as my main rival for the tech - it makes the most sense for us because we can revolt to Organized for free
me: you just discovered a tech this turn right?
(from civ stats)
Sent at 1:17 PM on Monday
Sunrise: apparently...I have a few techs queued up, so you're probably more up to date than I am
Sent at 1:18 PM on Monday
me: (i don't believe for a second that you don't know what tech you just researched :-D)
Sunrise: oh, I knoww which I researched, but I genuinily had no idea whether or not it was due this turn, the next, or the one after
me: ah
now that i can believe
Sunrise: particularily because I was one of the "last to move" people that gets to move twice, which makes it hard to remember if a "X turns to go" message was from one turn or the other
me: yeah
i haven't yet been the last person except for the first turn
but i know what you mean
Sunrise: anyways, I'll tell you this - even if I could mathmatically get the Mono first, if you make a total beeline there you'll probably beat me
however if the religion is unclaimed I'll be going for the tech soon
and of course, if you only want access to religion I'm happy to send a missionary over as soon as I can
Sent at 1:22 PM on Monday
me: let's see - poly, masonry and mono are 450 beakers, meaning with pre-reqs, I'm looking at 30 turns?
though i guess my cities will get bigger during that time
still that seems like a lot of turns
i.e. you will probably have it before T50
Sunrise: well the only thing I can offer in my favor, is that if I go for it and you don't it saves you wasting early beakers on poly
me: true
though org/rel is nice, given that we're both spiritual
as you said
Sunrise: if I had a gaurantee you wouldn't go for mono, I could offer a free missionary as compensation
you would admittantly loose out on organized until someone gets alphabet, but organized alone probably isnt worth the beakers
me: now that is tempting
a guarantee not to go for it till what turn?
Sent at 1:25 PM on Monday
Sunrise: I worry I overpay, with 11 other civs...but there are only how many of us with mysticism? 5? And those that aren't spiritual have less to gain...
one sec, I'll give you a turn
me: ok
also who is providing the galley to ferry this missionary?
Sent at 1:27 PM on Monday
Sunrise: ok, here is what I can offer. I can get Mono in 37 turns while still picking up the techs I want ASAP. To do that I would want short-term NAPs with Dreylin and your team. For the galley, I can provide it, but I can't promise to research sailing right after Mono...
I can promise to research sailing before any tech outside the first three columns in the tech tree, and build a galley as soon as I get the tech...alternately I can obviously give you a missionary sooner if you have a galley you can build or rent
anyways, reading over that I realize it isn't the world's strongest proposal, but in the absense of more info it's about the best I can offer
me: more info from me?
or more general exploring / meeting other people info
Sent at 1:33 PM on Monday
me: if it's from me, i'm happy to talk - i like to talk
so here's a few thoughts - what about natural spread? Will you still provide a missionary? What if you don't get Judaism? Will you still provide a hindu miss?
Sunrise: yes, if I miss the religon I'll provide a hindu miss for free, but if I miss it early (like before any beakers in mono) I'll probably delay the tech, but I wont delay delivery (since delivery is limited by sailing not Mono)
my two biggest concerns are unknowns over how my tech pace will improve with improved tiles, and whether or not I can secure a pair of short-term NAPs...If we're forced into an early military race that will delay all the fun techs
me: right
so how do you see things playing out, from a tech trading perspective?
i've heard a few people talk about how this will be different than the other lovefest email game
Sunrise: well as hopefully my leader and civ demonstrate, I'm hoping for a peaceful game.
me: yeah - not only spain on a lake, but FINANCIAL spain on a lake :-D
or at least the coast
Sunrise: well that was the plan, and fortunately I caught the tile I needed....FYI not in the my first ring thoufh, which was scary
me: what - oasis? or lake?
Sunrise: lake
me: nice
i can't speak for the league of lin of course, but i am not planning on early warfare, and if i was, it wouldn't be against you
my capital lies inland from the coast that separates us
so it would be tough
Sunrise: well here is my sense of things:
at least 4 civs choose rush civs/leaders
fortunately they aren't me or my neighboors, although Dreylin does have an anc UU
me: zulu / inca / persia / rome?
Sunrise: zulu, rome, persia, carthage I thinl
note the traits for Carthage - Exp/Chm, which are rushing traits with a horse attack
me: interesting
Sent at 1:43 PM on Monday
Sunrise: so, you and I have two of the best three long-term trait pairs in this game, so I see no reason why we can't trade techs peacefully
meanwhile let the others fight and get behind in tech...the obvious risk is that if someone declares early and wipes their rival out they will have lots of free land, but if I'd thought that gambit was worthwhile I'd have chosen a rushing civ myself (Egypt)
me: i'll be frank with you - i'm kind of scared of you. i've seen how well you play MP in the apolyton game.
so i don't really have any desire to attack you
i'm also kind of terrified about getting rushed int his game
so probably going to build more military
(though for me, that probably just means build "enough" military rather than cardboard cutouts)
especially given the fact that shadyforce (persia) is on my landmass
i also believe that a strong alliance (especially one on separate contients)
is going to be the winning strategy for this game
Sent at 1:49 PM on Monday
Sunrise: makes sense to me
Sent at 1:53 PM on Monday
Sunrise: without double moves early warfare is pretty hard actually...I mean 20 praetorians is always going to fare well, but it will be hard do anything too slick early
if I have to war, I'd prefer to wait until cats and knights, which allow more clever tactics...but again I'm pretty happy to rely on my traits and cooperation, so long as no one backs me into a corner
anyways, I'm off to a late lunch...I'll keep the window open, but I'll be AFK for 30 minutes or so

Some highlights:

* He shares a landmass with Dreylin. We were trying to arrange for me to meet both of them, but sunrise's borders expand on T22 to cover that tile and I can't get there before then.
* Dreylin nearly warrior rushed him
* He offered a free missionary if I agree not to chase Monotheism. He can get Mono in about 37 turns (T56)
* He's definitely putting out feelers for an alliance.
* He has a coastal capital, and is kind of a peninsula with water to east, north and south.