[SPOILERS] Willem of Portugal (Dantski + Mukha)

[novice]

I'd be curious to hear what other people think. I'm not happy with most of our chosen city sites, I think we mainly settled them in the wrong order. There are a lot of food resources around and we aren't working them. I think we're aiming to have 4 cities and 8 workers by T62 which is Alphabet, Wheel, Pottery, Iron Working, HBR and Writing day. Barb armies have started to appear so we need to focus on getting some defenders up.

Also, still trying to get Rome onboard. Hopefully their last email wasn't an attempt at stalling. We have contact now with Egypt, India, Rome and Sumeria.

Looks to me like you have four potential powerhouses along the river - your three cities and the site to the north. Don't know about the order but I would be very happy with the locations if I were you. The only downside is an elongated empire that could be hard to defend. Oh, and no horses?

[Dantski]

The thinking was that everyone probably had horses just outside their border so its possible there's horses in the fog to the west.

[Mukha]

The thinking...

Stop right there. Just no.

Looks to me like you have four potential powerhouses along the river - your three cities and the site to the north. Don't know about the order but I would be very happy with the locations if I were you. The only downside is an elongated empire that could be hard to defend. Oh, and no horses?

Subtle novice. Are you suggesting another city to the north along the river perhaps grabbing marble and copper? What turn should we officially declare war on Exploit? Or do you think the implicit declaration of war with that city plant is clear enough?

Damn lurkers, you all just want to see blood regardless of the consequences!

Oh, and no horses. We found some north west of exploit so hopefully he'll settle that way first and not towards us.

[novice]

Stop right there. Just no.



Subtle novice. Are you suggesting another city to the north along the river perhaps grabbing marble and copper? What turn should we officially declare war on Exploit? Or do you think the implicit declaration of war with that city plant is clear enough?

Damn lurkers, you all just want to see blood regardless of the consequences!

Oh, and no horses. We found some north west of exploit so hopefully he'll settle that way first and not towards us.

Heh, this is a link to a post in Byzantium's spoiler thread in PB2, so Dantski, don't click it. Anyway, you'll find a certain lurker suggesting a certain forward location for Byzantium's holy city...
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=335

I guess there's a reason why you're playing and I'm lurking.

[Mukha]

Krill hates us now with our 4th city sending us broke.

[Mukha]

Some pics:







I would post more but we still don't have a plan to share.

[zakalwe]

Nice land. Also, lol @ "Needs more signage!"

[Mukha]

I know I haven't posted much about the diplo situation although we have engaged in lots of long chats. I'm just relying on other teams punctual updates, if they haven't posted anything from us I can do that here for lurker's sake.

So I wrote this message just to keep Dantski on his toes.

Hi guys,

We would like to discuss the possibility of having France replaced with Babylon. This might come across as a little backstabby, but then the way I see it is you have to be friends before you can backstab and we've had a grand total of 34 words from France. Yes I'm keeping count and ranking your friendliness by your word count . They also continued to ignore our directions to meet Ottomans even though they didn't have pottery so they can't be getting much in the way of commerce (says the 4 city broke civ ). I know we can't be alone in not wanting France in the CAN as they were originally vetoed. I think Babylon are especially keen not be left struggling in the CANTs and they could be one of the few Alphabet researchers left out there. Babylon could possibly make a strike against France with our permisssion and our pledge not to come to French aid or we could just leave France out of the next round fairly peacefully. A downside is that France were in a better location strategically and this would put Babylon between Mali and Byzantium, but they do have a fairly powerful defensive UU (although it isn't much use against skirmishers or the ubiquitous HA). They already have the important financial techs so it doesn't need to be obvious that they have joined with us until the next round of trading although it could be obvious sooner depending on what ETA they gave others for Alphabet.

As the Ottomans have finally chased down the French warrior this turn for contact could they cancel their pottery gift until we discuss this unless they think this idea is too Machiavellian and far fetched. We feel that the French were signed on a little too hastily before getting to know them and their style of play, but we are happy to have our minds changed if other people have had better relations with them and can see a way that the French could develop into a powerful, trustworthy ally.

Mukha
CBE

Prompted by a chat in game with Kyan. Didn't talk about this, but I just got the feeling he was seeking contact with the leaders to plead his case.

[Mukha]

DIM HRE: morning
Mukha: hi
Mukha: I can't remember if it was your team or ottos who said they had a fairly detailed map of where everyone is
DIM HRE: we do
Mukha: ok so just to confirm then it's roughly
DIM HRE: but the team-member who has the map has gone awol
Mukha: England France Egypt Carthage
DIM HRE: yup
Mukha: Mali Babylon Maya Byzantium
Mukha: byz and mali could be other way around
Mukha: I keep forgetting
DIM HRE: let me check
Mukha: 10-12 tiles of desert/floodplains/jungle
Mukha: Inca Rome Exploit India Aztec
Mukha: HRE Portugal Korea Otto
DIM HRE: byz and Maya are switched
DIM HRE: rest is correct
Mukha: oops ok thanks
DIM HRE: np
Mukha: hey do you know what everyone is teching at the moment?
Mukha: we're just saving money for the possibility of going for construction once maths comes in, but that hasn't been confirmed
DIM HRE: Krill Mono
DIM HRE: us HBR
DIM HRE: Ottomans IW
DIM HRE: Carthage MAths
Mukha: and with war imminent with rome our money is going to continue to suck
DIM HRE: England Monarchy
DIM HRE: india is saving gold i think
DIM HRE: Aztec is rebuilding its economy
Mukha: india have been whipping so they wouldn't have much of an econonmy either
Mukha: and france?
DIM HRE: i'm not sure, but i think we got them pegged for Currency or MC
Mukha: right ok, so do you mind sharing your game plan over the next ten turns? ours is fairly straightforward win vs rome
DIM HRE: we're currently growing
DIM HRE: like I told you we had some barb trouble
DIM HRE: then whip out a couple of horse archers around T72
DIM HRE: we should have two chariots at the ready by T70
Mukha: where would they be?
DIM HRE: hehe in our lands
DIM HRE: should be around rome by T74
Mukha: also, if you have contact with aztecs could you let them know that we got really unlucky vs barbs and lost our scout that we sent to find them
Mukha: we must have been only 2-3 tiles from him at the time
DIM HRE: that sucks
Mukha: last I heard his scout was 6SE of the Indian capital so if it continues west it will eventually find us
DIM HRE: will do
Mukha: how much contact have you had with the incans?
DIM HRE: just the hello
Mukha: are you planning on some payback with aztecs and ottos?
DIM HRE: they have both have a NAP till T100, so won't be too soon
Mukha: ah
Mukha: what sort of military do the aztecs have lef
Mukha: left
Mukha: do you knoww
Mukha: err not aztecs, I mean incans
DIM HRE: couple of axemen and quechas
Mukha: do you have much contact with france? they seem to keep ignoring directions for contact
DIM HRE: no we don't, they're doing Toku
DIM HRE: to tell you the truth, we didn't really want them in the Cartel
Mukha: ok, i was about to say
Mukha: I was considering a request to rest of CAN to have them replaced with Babylon
Mukha: was talking to babylon in game and I didn't mention that, but they are definitely unhappy about being left out and I think could very well go for a military strike vs someone who appears to be currently non-conforming
Mukha: but we wouldn't be able to or want to join in
DIM HRE: we already provided France with techs, and they provide us with strategic coverage
DIM HRE: I'm not sure we could do that
Mukha: well babylon would have to go it alone vs them
DIM HRE: Babylon would be very exposed, so we couldn't help them
Mukha: it's just france don't respond
Mukha: yeah
DIM HRE: if you want, you can double back you warrior and move him SE
Mukha: they would have byz on one side and mali on the other. but they do have a powerful defensive uu
DIM HRE: you should hit a new french city in 3-4 turns
Mukha: we have french contact
DIM HRE: oh ok
Mukha: just they don't talk much, and I try to give them directions to contact the members they don't have contact with but they don't follow directions
Mukha: so they aren't going to be much help tech wise if they don't get contacts
DIM HRE: they currently have a warrior heading for Krill
DIM HRE: yeah I know
DIM HRE: the way I see it
DIM HRE: we have given them much yet
DIM HRE: should they not provide us with enough help
Mukha: well with tech brokering they can't retrade anything we've given them
DIM HRE: at least we have them on our side
DIM HRE: once Rome is hamstrung
DIM HRE: we could just move against france and take them out as well
DIM HRE: but they won't have helped the adversaries
DIM HRE: anyway I'm just throwing around ideas here
Mukha: the other reason to get france replaced with babylon is babylon could very well be the only other alphabet researcher apart from exploit
Mukha: so was I, although it does make me seem like a backstabbing bastard
DIM HRE: i have no qualms with that
Mukha: though I think you need to be friends first to be able to backstab
DIM HRE: exactly
Mukha: and france have sent us a total of 15 words mb
DIM HRE: you know they almost invaded our lands way in the beginning of the game?
Mukha: lol no what happened?
DIM HRE: they kept making demands
DIM HRE: "or else"
Mukha: lol wow
DIM HRE: like keep all the lands to our SE for them
Mukha: are they roleplaying toku?
DIM HRE: it would seem so
DIM HRE: only after I pretty much threated with all out war did they back down
Mukha: so was it you that vetoed them originally? we originally thought that was Krill
DIM HRE: Krill didn't want them in either
Mukha: so if you met them early you probably have their graphs right?
DIM HRE: but we agreed it would make strategic sense to have them in
DIM HRE: we have their graphs, but only because I had to ask them twice to switch their EP's
DIM HRE: "oh we forgot to switch them"
Mukha: right well this has only convinced me more that we should at least try to get babylon instead
Mukha: I mean we don't need to tell france they are out
Mukha: just when next round comes they won't be a part of it
DIM HRE: well, send it to the others, we'll see what they say
DIM HRE: but at this point I think we're to late to switch
Mukha: ok, I'll talk to Krill and India at least
Mukha: well france haven't provided us with anything, and we haven't provided them much of any importance
DIM HRE: have you met Carthage?
Mukha: considering they still don't have contact with egypt right?
Mukha: oh wait they do
Mukha: no they don't
Mukha: no we haven't
Mukha: our woody 2 is going to meet carthage and england
DIM HRE: ok Carthage have a warrior real close
Mukha: ahh cool
Mukha: got precise directions?
DIM HRE: let me check ingame
Mukha: i'll log in too to check who has what contacts and techs
DIM HRE: you haven' t moved yet, so you'll meet them T68
Mukha: oooh
DIM HRE: good news huh?
Mukha: yeah, which direction do we go?
DIM HRE: I'm sending them an email now
DIM HRE: you need to go 5 tiles SW
Mukha: ok. any forests we can stick to that way?
DIM HRE: yup, otherwise you couldn't meet him on T68 right?
DIM HRE: just make sure every move is SW
Mukha: right ok
Mukha: thanks!
DIM HRE: you're welcome
Mukha: and then it's south from there to england?
DIM HRE: nope
DIM HRE: you'll meet england the same turn
Mukha: even more thankier
DIM HRE: welcomeier
Mukha: i take it you meant to cross peaks into midas' folly first then head sw?
Mukha: ok wow france still doesn't have contact with egypt
Mukha: they started next to each other and they said 15 turns ago they were sending a scout
DIM HRE: actually, france moved way west in the beginning, so they are actually further from Egypt then you'd expect
Mukha: oh that's right they didn't found till 3rd turn I think
DIM HRE: yup
DIM HRE: yes move into midas first and again SW
DIM HRE: our road are your roads
Mukha: ok right
Mukha: ok, so france are crazy they don't have pottery and yet they continue to ignore our directions for contact with ottos
DIM HRE: yeah they're crazy bullies
Mukha: but ottomans finally made contact with them this turn anyway, I guess they couldn't out run their chariot
DIM HRE: Toku
DIM HRE: hehe
Mukha: i'm going to ask ottos not to trade them pottery until we discuss it
DIM HRE: yes, but then they need to be kept in the loop
DIM HRE: send the email to india, egypt, us and ottomans
Mukha: ok will do
DIM HRE: don't mention we talked about this
Mukha: heh worried about appearing as backstabby as us?
DIM HRE: no not at all
Mukha: I won't
DIM HRE: they know how we think about france
DIM HRE: but that way it is up to them to think of the pro's and con's
Mukha: ottos have played their turn already, and probably would have offered pottery to france already
DIM HRE: no sure
DIM HRE: they could still cancel the offer
Mukha: so they would have to log in again to cancel before france logs in I think
DIM HRE: yup
DIM HRE: assuming they offered the tech right away
DIM HRE: later buddy

new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: yeah
Mukha: ok, so you probably got my email
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: About France?
Mukha: yeah
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: FWIW, I agree with you
Mukha: ok
Mukha: well that's good to hear
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: I'm quite happy to see France destroyed
Mukha: but I'll leave that issue at the moment so everyone can have time to discuss
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: I think alot of teams are
Mukha: but I was also wondering what techs everyone was on
Mukha: I think carthage is on maths, india and us money
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: it's just, well, we need them to sit on ourside and play with themselves, and once we have the CANT handled then we crush them
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: ok
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Carthage, maths, t70
Mukha: someone on monotheism? metal casting? monarchy
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Ottomans, IW, t71
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: HRE HBR, t72
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: I'm on monotheism
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: t71, maybe t70
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Monarchy, England, they start once I gift them Monotheism
Mukha: right ok
Mukha: what should we head to? construction? currency? hopefully we can get our units back inside borders wherever they may be and start earning some proper cash
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Just save gold atm
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: We really need someone to research Currency
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: which was one of the reasons France might be useful to us as a tool, to research that asap
Mukha: what were they on?
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: then we can share gold and this sort of cooperation is much easiert to deal with
Mukha: money?
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: right now, yeah, money
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: but they don;t have pottery?
Mukha: no
Mukha: just got contact with ottos
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: oh holy fuck they are more useless than I though
Mukha: i keep giving them directions for contact and then head the opposite direction
Mukha: after screenshots and circles and everything
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Well
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: less contacts they have, easier to kill them
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: and looks like they can't be relied on to tech anything
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: OK
Mukha: yeah, but we would be busy elsewhere
Mukha: so we know how keen you are on France (not very) but how do you feel about the Babylon side?
Mukha: a bit far fetched?
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Sorry, organisiin g a take away for late while reading what you are writing
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: It's not that I don;t want Babylon in the alliance
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: But that is an entire row of 4 civs, and therefore they only have 2 flanks to worry about
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: north and south
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: We would more likely have to offer Babylon a space for them, and another team
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Either Byz, or Mali
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Now, I'm fine offering them the slot
Mukha: hmm
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: But it isn't just sdown to me
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: it is down to Carthage, England, Ottomans and DIM
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: because they are the ones currently researching techs that would need to get gifted to them
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: and the first two on that list will border them.
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Maybe they wanted to expand in tthat direction
Mukha: i'm not sure if anyone will go for having another two teams even with france out
Mukha: yeah
Mukha: will have to see how everyone responds, but we get contact with carthage and england on t68
Mukha: so we couldn't send it to them
Mukha: could you send my email on?
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: ok
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: sure
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: The other option I suppose is just let the aliiance fall abart after we get the major techs, maths/HBR/IW
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: NOt something that I'm actively considering, of course
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: just wondering how the other alliance would take it
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Because I know that maya don;t like working with Exploit
Mukha: ahh right
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: probably no one does
Mukha: I don't think anyone does
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: yeah
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: so maybe if we devolved ourselves into smaller teching groups, we could cause them to do the same
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: And France would die quickly in that case
Mukha: at the moment, I don't think there is really much of a counter alliance, Rome thinks they are perfectly capable of going it alone
Mukha: and the incans are pretty isolated
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Incans are screwed
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Rome, well
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: you outnumber them in cities and pop
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: and tech
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: you shouldn't just weather the storm, you should be planing on destroying them
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Exploit we need to diplomaticaly isolate
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: France we need to figure out how to get the teams south of him wanting him dead as well, probably best doing that by saying will split hte land if they help out.
Mukha: ok, well I'm not sure what contacts everyone has with that row of civs
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Hmmm, have none
Mukha: we know only babylon, but they gave us directions to byzantium
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: *I
Mukha: which is just a couple of turns away I think
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: ah, you know where babylon are?
Mukha: yes
Mukha: 30N some number west of our cap
Mukha: their cap that is
Mukha: i think maybe 8w
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: ok, so probably quite close to one of my scouting warriors
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Are Byz to the east of babylon?
Mukha: yes
Mukha: then maya east of them then mali
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Ah, I'm probably quite close to Babs then
Mukha: babylon also settled a city to the east of their capital if that's any closer to your scout
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Yeah, means I'm probably only about 10 turns away from them with a warrior
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: unless someone kills it.
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Something that wouldn't surprise me tbh
Mukha: ahh, we had 3 barb warriors ambush our scout for aztecs
Mukha: ok, well if it is a possibility to get babylon in, then we would need to move fairly quickly to keep alphabet off the others
Mukha: but they may not be willing to break deals so thoroughly
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Well, Exploit is researching Alpha, so we would really need him dead before we could use that as a good reason to add babs to the group
Mukha: I just hope the alliance can be patient with us, to do the wars we find necessary before we can get our commerce going
Mukha: don't want to go the way of France...
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: You and India aren't in a great position.
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: That has to be said
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: you really need, both of you, to cripple your neighbours and then continue your natural growth
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Just to give yourselves good positions for later on
Mukha: yeah, it's a fairly all out attack in the hopes of being quick and decisive
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: How many chariots you attacking with, BTW?
Mukha: 7
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: Holy fuck dude, that is going to be awesome
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: I want updates on that :D
Mukha: heh, well we just hope that his best unit is axemen
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: probably are
Mukha: it's a pity incan caught our city right as it finished a chariot because horses wouldn't have been visibile to exploit in trade
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: if he doesn;t have hunting, which you can easily check using f$, he'll likely be building axes and maybe a warrior or 2
Mukha: no, he doesn't have hunting or animal husbandry
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: he is totally screwed
Mukha: also, I'm not sure but I was hoping to check with you, having looked at your screenshots in a while
Mukha: we think we might know the location of iron
Mukha: strategic resource cities appear to balanced with some food to make them non dud
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: not really.
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: My coper city has no food
Mukha: we have a symmetrical layout of copper/pig/something useful
new.mail.storage@googlemail.com: You got lucky then...
Mukha: and pig/corn/horse pig/corn/plentyof room for iron
Mukha: ok nm then, just us pigtoria

[Mukha]

Enough civ chat.

kttwrbpb3: hey there
me: hey
9:48 AM kttwrbpb3: how you doin? Mukha i presume or am i being graced with Dantski this time around?
me: heh no this is mukha
kttwrbpb3: in that case i use the word 'graced' loosely
me: ain't nothing graceful about him
9:49 AM I would use the term lazy
as long as he doesn't change the civ pw on me we'll get on fine though
kttwrbpb3: ha well i don't know him well enough to comment
had a good day pal?
me: yeah ok, yourself?
9:50 AM did you get my email then?
kttwrbpb3: yeah thanks, been practising for a football tournament i have tomoro (soccer)
yes indeed i did
me: ahh good luck then
kttwrbpb3: just comparing maps
i can confirm that yours is accurate
9:51 AM the only thing worth bearing in mind
is the horizontal 'strips' so to speak aren't perfect. They're gently staggered
me: yeah
kttwrbpb3: Exploit is in the same row but the staggering is maybe slightly more pronounced
me: hard to get that offset with just a space bar and a tab key
kttwrbpb3: indeed
9:52 AM if it stays with yourselves for now
i'll send you the map i;ve drawn up
it's same as yours but more colourful
me: no problem it'll stay with us
kttwrbpb3: http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/...amemap.jpg
me: heh, I was making the same sort of thing
9:53 AM kttwrbpb3: as im sure you can tell, red represents CAN
green is people i know AREN'T in the CAN
and france i was unsure of at the time but i know now they are a member, albeit perhaps a minor one based on their score
9:54 AM me: well they have very poor contact, I'm curious about your thoughts about the second part of my email
kttwrbpb3: it's something that interests me greatly
but i must tread carefully
9:55 AM me: yes I was about to say the same thing about ourselves, it's difficult to discuss ideas with you without knowing where exactly you currently stand
would be easier to tell who your close to if you had alphabet
kttwrbpb3: altho being left out the hydra is definitely not something we're liking, i have at least ensure that we are surrounded with non-aggressors. France and Egypt are further away then England is in truth and i have a NAP with england
9:56 AM thing is tho, if i lay my cards on the table
and don't get welcomed in
i'm royally screwed hehe
9:57 AM me: heh it's a weaker strategic spot as a CAN member, although nobody likes to dance with bowmen
kttwrbpb3: indeed
me: well i can promise you things can stay between us
kttwrbpb3: and our military isn't worth slouching at
my main issue would be Mali
9:58 AM not that i'm scared of them
but rather the opposite
me: they are paranoid of you?
kttwrbpb3: no, we are close as civ;'s
in terms of location and in terms of relationship
me: ahh right
kttwrbpb3: our second city (which is only just outside our capital) borders their capital
9:59 AM me: ok how close are mali to byz and maya diplomatically do you know?
kttwrbpb3: ok you've confirmed this stays between us so i'll trust you
me: yes
kttwrbpb3: Mali aren't particularly close to either. They're friendly but not allies
10:00 AM both us and mali are allies with them thru necessity largely
now byz have been very friendly and i've had some nice chats with them, but i get the impression that they have a divided front
i.e. sometimes i'll speak to one team member who'll say one thing
and another will be thinking the opposite
i spose that's the downside to a large team
10:01 AM me: ahh right yeah, that's why I just email/play the turn without waiting for input
kttwrbpb3: yeah it kinda makes me a hypocrite as im in a team of 3 but TT (after taking on pb1) has been largely a lurker and whosit has plenty on his plate also.
tho both offer assistance and i welcome that of course
same
any major decisions, i have authority to make them on the spot as i see fit
me: could you confirm that anything I tell you know stays between us?
10:02 AM kttwrbpb3: yes
you have my word
me: none of us are fond of france
kttwrbpb3: hehe that one isn't a secret
me: they were chosen hastily and against some wishes
for strategic location reasons
kttwrbpb3: well, it half isn't. I know HRE aren't and HRE have been telling everyone else some rather naughty things about them
10:03 AM me: heh
kttwrbpb3: ok
sorry for interrupting i get the impression you're going somewhere here hehe
me: so we did canvass an idea of you perhaps replacing them
10:04 AM kttwrbpb3: i see
well, firstly, thanks
10:05 AM me: but it may be better if you came onboard together with a neighbour, although with such a large alliance I imagine it would have to dissolve into smaller groups fairly soon after
10:06 AM was there a secondly btw?
kttwrbpb3: that's rather a relief you said that.
yes but i thought i'd let you finish typing
the second has kind of just been answered
i won't ditch Mali
10:07 AM me: well we were just thinking of how you would feel, you would be stuck between mali and byz and would have to thoroughly break deals
ok, so you would actually be keen to come onboard with mali?
kttwrbpb3: i dont like playing off of technicalities etc but the way I view our status
is we have potential trading partners in maya, byz etc
and we have mali as allies
10:08 AM Yes i would but it would need to perhaps be a bit subtle initially
me: yes, we were thinking of same thing
kttwrbpb3: i.e. i can't go ahead and jump 30 points without getting hunting
me: you have all the financial techs already, wouldn't need to be obvious until next round
kttwrbpb3: indeed we do and we are in a strong economic position
10:09 AM academy due in 6
me: nice
kttwrbpb3: tho i was going to probably settle it instead to avoid future harassment from you chaps
10:10 AM also, i wrote up a dossier on you guys at one point. I can't really share all the content right now but i'll show you the intro page:
me: heh ok
kttwrbpb3: http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/.../hydra.jpg
hence - the hydra
me: I asked Dantski to give me a page long threat assessment on each opposing team
10:11 AM kttwrbpb3: yeah we have some info along those lines
ok i have a question
if we did join, what would be expected from us
it's fair to say that we have a LOT of info on pretty much every one of your potential rivals right now
but i'm not overly keen to screw those civs up a whole lot further than ditching them is going to do
10:12 AM me: withholding alphabet from others would be super, if you are indeed going for alpha atm?
no military strikes are necessary I would think. perhaps you could organize something against france later?
kttwrbpb3: i'm not, altho i could. i would definitely be fastest there outside the hydra
im sure your group is aware of who the alphabet provider is
10:13 AM me: we would probably just peacefully leave them out of next round
kttwrbpb3: irony being he has beelined directly there and invested heavily and i've worked out we could beat him by 1t if we needed too heh
me: heh yeah, I don't have enough contacts to tell yet. sumeria is definitely going for alphabet, but I didn't anyone trusted him
kttwrbpb3: i don't
10:14 AM he's not stupid. he would have provided alphabet for sure
but he expect a lot in return
me: yeah
that's what I meant sorry
kttwrbpb3: seems to see himself as like our guardian angel saving us from the hydra
and after reading pb1 and seeing here, i'm still waiting to be impressed
10:15 AM me: didn't follow pb1 and it's way too late to get caught up
although i've just started reading with nukes a few turns away
kttwrbpb3: long story short: he took over Krill's civ who were by far the world dominant civ
10:16 AM he diplomatically exiled himself and pissed off every other civ, resulting in a huge dogpile and then gifted away all his cities
me: heh, interesting diplomatic victory tactic
10:17 AM kttwrbpb3: when asked about expected, i didn't actually mean aggression- tho of course im happy to contribute in that sense
i actually meant in terms of strategy and planning
me: ok, so everything can stay between us, or I could take some select statements from yourself to others?
10:18 AM kttwrbpb3: eg. i know where byz' strategic resources are exactly. things like that
you can take select statements
me: oh right, well that information would certainly be appreciated, but it depends how comfortable you feel with that
10:19 AM kttwrbpb3: what i would say is if it's France vs Mali + Babylon
France are blocking expansion route for most of your civs. Have already pissed off at least one
Mali and Babylon are both strong techers and with a natural border and the desert as well as our north being fairly secure
my only worry would be Byz
me: well they've done a few silly things, still don't have pottery because they ignored my screenshots and directions to get contact with the civ that had it
10:20 AM kttwrbpb3: that's a waste of their traits
even with a tech bloc
we have 2 hamlets in a couple of turns
and being in the hydra would also allow us to go full economy
improving taht further
10:21 AM can i ask who from the CAN has self-researched hunting?
me: we did actually
kttwrbpb3: If it's nobody we met, we might have to blow some of our cash reserves getting it quickly
ha
10:22 AM well that's a result
me: had a fur
kttwrbpb3: fur? Haven't even seen any yet
we would need to build a spearmen or two for our border with byz
10:23 AM me: yeah, ok well we would hope to get you guys on board fairly quickly, would mali want any techs immediately though? or could they wait till next round?
kttwrbpb3: we will meet egypt very soon i expect
10:24 AM i have a unit beelining to their capital for contact
i'm kinda expecting to see their borders at any point
Mali, i can't speak for.
me: krill has a scout towards you
kttwrbpb3: i would need to ask swiss
me: said it was 10 turns from contact roughly
kttwrbpb3: hmm sounds like we missed each other
10:25 AM i expect my scout is no more than 4 or so max
me: i'll tell you how far krill's capital is from mine
one sec
kttwrbpb3: but that's based off of an estimate
10:26 AM me: 12E17S if our capital
*of
10:27 AM kttwrbpb3: ok. do you remember what your capital position from us was again?
i know you said yday but im a numpty and didnt write it down
me: 30S8E from you i think
this is why I hate chatting in game
10:28 AM it was definitely 30 just not sure about how many east
kttwrbpb3: ok, im trying to work this out
map is 64x64
me: I think that makes it 18N? of you
10:29 AM and 20E
err 19N
10:30 AM kttwrbpb3: i make it 17n, 20 e?
he same as you near enough
me: heh well I trust yours more
kttwrbpb3: sorry i was writing it on the whiteboard (where i have a map )
10:31 AM im gonna log in game quick and see wher Wyrmsbane is. i can then give you a more precise date for contact
me: i'm using our territory in game as a whiteboard, pity the character limit for signs is so low
ok
kttwrbpb3: indeed, i drag signs over multiple lines
like
this
me: yeah same
but even then I'm running out of room
10:32 AM most of our signs are used for insulting each other though
10:34 AM kttwrbpb3: haha nice
ok our scout is further away than i thought
Krill is very eastward
at best we are 6t from him
10:35 AM me: ahh right
kttwrbpb3: obviously any barbs could cause a problem
me: would like you in CAN before then i think, so I'll pass messages along on your behalf
kttwrbpb3: ok thank you
10:36 AM worth asking now as it could be time critical later
right now we are hoarding gold
should we continue to do so
me: it's tricky juggling techs until we get currency
but I'm sure we could work you in somehow
10:37 AM kttwrbpb3: well my thinking is it's worth it not to sit at 0% then go 100% when the academy is up
far more efficiient
me: yeah
kttwrbpb3: so what would happen initially, we'll get hunting for now and be included in the next round of techs? if there is one?
10:38 AM me: problem is we won't have contact with carthage and england and they are fairly key atm
kttwrbpb3: Would we be then given any backfill techs? eg. religious ones?
i have contact with England
me: yes well you would also get sailing of all things
kttwrbpb3: and i can also guarantee you to meet England within 3t if you want?
me: we meet carthage and england within 2
10:39 AM kttwrbpb3: maybe it's two then. England have a warrior just coming round our borders by byz
you're heading straight for them
i can send them your way also
me: actually we have one meeting them by hre
kttwrbpb3: ah ok, fair enough
me: or we find their territory
10:40 AM do you have contact with incans and rome? I can't remember from in game
kttwrbpb3: right mate, i'm gonna have to say my good nights. i need to fill TT in with tonights chat
inca yes but rome no
inca havea QUechua also right by where the english warrior is
they're heading eastward tho
10:41 AM i can stall them to meet you if you want
me: right np, I'll let others know you are keen
we have incan contact
do you think you could make a strike against france? just to shore up our frontline
kttwrbpb3: As your C&d experts in your group can tell, us and mali aren't slouching and with tech trading off would be in a rather strong position at the moment lol
10:42 AM if i get hunting, yes
i expect byz to attack me if this happens
i significantly outproduce them but chariots will be flung at me
me: right ok, if you think you will need military aid could you let us know?
10:43 AM kttwrbpb3: i will do, but i'm not overly worried
me: ok great chat then
kttwrbpb3: we have a barracks up in a nice production site and can produce axemen in 3 without chop/whip
indeed mate, get a nice sleep and i'll speak to you soon
me: ok bye