RB PBEM #10 [SPOILERS] - Meatbalz

[meatbalz]

I have some time to think about this as serdoa will probably be slow playing his turns while he's away. borders won't pop @ sstring until T51, so there's no need for a work boat immediately. there IS need for more military on the NW island. so instead of chariot->work boat, i want chariot->chariot->work boat. so:
T47 chariot
T48 chariot
T50 work boat
T52 worker
i think (without the game in front of me it's tough to be sure) that sstring can grow to s6 by the time it starts the worker, meaning it can whip out another one shortly after T52.

other pressing need: settler-chariot pair, and a galley to host them. i'll need to decide whether i can afford to wait for my galley to sail all the way around. i want to colonize the E island, with an equitable split with whoever's out there, but don't want to be late to the party and find they've taken most of it. realistically, i can get something out there earlier than just sailing the galley around, but will need to sacrifice quite hard to do so.

also, there is 1 wonder i have my eyes on that should fit in well with the direction my civ is heading in i think i should be able to start on it sometime between T57-60. it should finish in ~7T with a chop.

[meatbalz]

short update:
i'm an idiot. and;
i'm an idiot.

i did get judaism and obviously it was nowhere close to being founded in my shiny new 4th city . worst thing is, of course i knew it wouldn't get founded there... how did i even get it into my head it would be founded there???

complete and utter radio silence from sumeria (hence my update just now in the IT thread, in case they've been sending messages to the wrong account). i think they will NOT be happy, since every gesture of mine could be interpreted as a hostile one - found a different religion, build a city right next to them, and of course, i still haven't contacted them while actually the reality is i would dearly love to befriend them since we're natural allies - for all the reasons i mentioned before.

one last thing. my GNP of 62 beats rival best by 5, average by 15. that's without the pre-req rsch bonus. beaker output is ~45/turn before bonuses. my first madrassa got 2x-whipped this turn. next city i build adds 6 gold from trade routes in the city itself, 1 more each in chaos, superstring, and group.

GP coming in 11 turns if i run 1 scientist, and fewer if i run more. if i do manage a GM, currency will add a 2 gold/turn route in the island cities, and a 1 in the mainland ones. an academy would add about 12 beakers/turn. i would REALLY like the merchant.

[Rowain]

Grats on Judaism

Some questions:
Where is your 4th city located?

Has your explorer made any other contacts yet?

Will there be a big turn 50 update with pictures(hint hint) ?

[meatbalz]

lots going on as i'm sure whoever is lurking the TT/ilios thread knows, the game is well and truly afoot. diplo is ongoing, i am holding the turn awaiting their reply. all will be revealed soon.

[novice]

How do you feel about people who raze your cities?

[meatbalz]

Well, it's 2 turns late but here's the big T50 (52) update.


Demographics Overview



Essentially, my research rocks, thanks to GL trade routes. Everything else is sub-par, not helped by the fact Sumeria razed my 4th city - more on that in a bit. Those 6 food+hammers would have put me right in line with the average Mfg Goods + Crop Yield, and with the best economy. Still, that's a pipe dream now.


Cities

Chaos


GP due in 9T. Chaos is going to build a Settler, which together with an archer Superstring will build will board the Galley currently in Superstring.

Superstring


Superstring goes archer->worker. Borders pop in 4T which will enable the furs to be hooked up. You can't see it in the interface but the city just produced a galley.

Group


A third galley might seem like overkill but I want it for tactical flexibility. I haven't decided what to build next but most likely I'll whip the galley out in 3T and put the overflow into a worker.

The NW island


You can see the ruins W-NW of Galleyleo Galleylei. You can also see 2 chariots+settler+Minkowski the worker, ready to settle a city.


Relations
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....ostcount=2


Research
Maths, to make up for my shocking lack of production via the chop. Currency will hopefully be bulbed in 9T.

Either IW or meditation come after Maths.
The case for meditation: I've been lucky to already get 1 free religion spread, but I'd like to get OR up an running. I also need to pop borders on any cities built on the NW island, particularly since Sumeria founded Hinduism.
The case for IW: no copper, anywhere in sight. I need to reveal iron. The fact compass comes after IW doesn't hurt, although if things go according to plan harbors will have to wait until after markets.


Diplo

With Carthage

Greetings.

This is Cyneheard, Consul of Cyrus of Carthage. We greet the Builder Of The
House Of Great Lights with great awe and appreciation, for that was an
impressively fast build. Ad Hoc has a chariot nearby, if you move 2N1W, you
should meet his chariot either on your T50, or on his T51. I am trying to
better understand this map, and am willing to share information about it.
Open Borders is certainly on the table, but I don't want to sign one-way
trade routes with anyone (and haven't yet).

For chatting purposes, I am on EST time, and use haughmeister@gmail.com, and
am usually around in the evenings, if you wish to discuss anything.

Cyneheard, Consul of Cyrus of Carthage.

-------------------------

Consul Cyneheard. Your mere existence makes me ill. Yet I'm in awe of your alliterative skills. I'll head over to make contact with Greece. If Greece is W of you as I'm assuming: you've got N, Greece NW, Sumeria SW, and I have the S. Do you know who's NE and who's SE and have you met anyone else yet. Sumeria built the Oracle and took MC with it, unless my C&D is badly mistaken. They are yet to contact me.

TGL was a necessity given the poor state of my economy. I intend to claim my fair share of land and will not hesitate to attack anyone who interferes with my right to do so. I am interested in open borders and would prefer to get them signed without diplomatic time-wasting. It's in my interest for obvious reasons and in your interest because you need to leverage IMP without crashing your economy. Geography and circumstance suggest a trading partnership is of mutual benefit. I trust your reply will clarify whether you agree.

Regards

Boudica

-----------------

Yeah, I had the same data on Sumeria. If Twinkeltoes didn't take MC, then HE was badly mistaken. I'll be shocked if he doesn't knock out the Colossus fairly soon, because if he waits too much past T65 or so, someone else (say, Qin) could knock out a quick forge and wonder. I'm North, and Tatan (Napoleon/Netherlands) is NE, so SE must be Qin.

Agreed on the OBs, although it'll be a few turns before either of us can quite reach the other. Feel free to offer it on your turn, I've already sent the save along.

The only land that our two civs could conceivably contest is the FP/silver middle. I'll be at about a dozen cities before I think about sending troops that way. That...won't be an issue. And since everyone can get there, it'll be very difficult unless somehow there's enough room for all six of us to get a city down on that island...and then the shooting would almost certainly start SOMEWHERE.

----------------

He did take MC. He also razed one of my cities; don't get me wrong, it was undefended (I screwed up unit moves and left it empty for 2 turns - the second of which saw the city razed), but he's clearly going for an aggressive gameplan. He didn't contact me, gave me no warning, just razed. We're back at peace now but, regardless of the detriments of CHA/AGG, that's what I am and I'm not playing the peaceful builder forever.

You and I are on the same page as far as the central region is concerned. We're also on the same page as far as leader/civ picks, since I liked the civs/leaders you excluded and only 2 of the civs/leaders you chose got picked, unlike Tatan, Ad Hoc, and Ilios (3 each). And you stole Cyrus from me... which was a nice pick and combined with Tatan taking Napoleon left me "economically challenged" let's say.

Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying I'd like to keep the lines of communication open. I don't plan on doing a ton of diplo in this game but let's keep in touch.

Boudica of Arabia

With Sumeria

Hi Meatbalz,

Only just found your email address so apologies for not getting in touch
when we first met.

Unfortunately (for you), I spotted your undefended new city on the land to
my west and have declared war and razed it this turn. I was not looking for
war this early, but you left me too tempting a target to pass up with an
undefended city. Just one unit to garrison and things may well have been
different.

I know that you will likely be angry with me for such raw opportunism, but I
guarantee that had you (or anyone else) had the same opportunity, you would
have done it.

If you don't want to talk to me, that's fine - but I'm here if you do.

TT



Twinkletoes, regardless of the opportunism of the move, you are mistaken if you think I would act similarly - unless my intention was to engage in a game-long war, which is exactly how I'm interpreting your actions.

My garrison was 2 turns late arriving, and that's on me. However
1) you never contacted me beforehand to even try to extract concessions. A simple mail just before you played your turn might have gotten you concessions for catching my troops badly positioned. I'm left to assume that since you didn't contact me, you're perfectly happy to raze the city and damned be the consequences.
2) you gained nothing directly. sure, you slow me down, you may even decide you want that spot for yourself. once you scout out the island (if you haven't aleady) you'll soon see that's "my" side of the island and i would contest your settlement there even had you not made your aggressive intentions so abundantly clear.
3) you rejected OB several times after initially accepting them with no explanation
4) essentially you don't care about antagonizing a neighbor, the only other AGG one to boot. so instead of us working together - and our two Aggressive civs, boosted by Colossus & TGL, could have torn this map up - you've unilaterally decided to make us enemies.

So here's my suggestion. I will swallow the 65 hammers & lost turns of production as punishment for mis-moving my units. I get to re-settle the location you just razed. We sign OB and a NAP running until T100.

If you agree, we can put this incident behind us. If you don't I will mobilize for all-out, game-long war. I'm holding the turn awaiting your answer.

--------------

Meatbalz,

It was not my intention to cause a game-long war, but I know from my limited MP experience that with humans being much better than the AI, you have to exploit the mistakes of your opponents however small - as they will not make many.

I shall address your 4 points now.

1) I didn't contact you because there were no concessions you could have given me which would have been worth letting an undefended city live - or at least no concessions you would have accepted. You were also aware of how close that city was to my land, and made no effort to contact me about it either - just claiming it could also be considered a hostile act. And like I said, all you needed was one decent garrison troop and I would have likely not attacked, or lost a chariot in the attempt.

2) I gained little, yes. But I also lost nothing in the process of slowing you down. I was already planning to put a chariot on that landmass to explore it, and so I didn't even divert my course to attack. Again, if you had contacted me about the city in advance then maybe this needn't have happened.

3) I rejected OB because I wanted a No Right of Passage clause, and said so in the in-game diplo window. I accepted because I assumed you had accepted when you next offered that.

4) I don't care about antagonizing a neighbour when I am presented with an opportunity such as you provided. If you want to make a game-long vendetta out of it, so be it. But you will lose just like me so it makes no sense for you.

I am prepared to accept your offer with a couple of modifications. The OB agreement includes a no right of passage agreement for all units except workboats, and when you settle the city again and the stone improved, I gain one free gift of Stone for 10 turns (I am prepared to co-ordinate on wonders needing stone so we don't harm each other's choice if you wish) and finally the NAP means that neither of us can directly or indirectly help anyone who has hostile intentions to the other.

Does that sound satisfactory to you?

TT

-------------------

accepted. i've offered peace in-game. please offer OB next turn.

I'm sure there's tons I've missed out. Feel free to ask

[meatbalz]

lurker help: how the fridge do i hide/reveal text?

[DaveV]

I think you use [ spoiler ] and [ /spoiler ]..

test

Maybe not...

[Square Leg]

Spoiler tags don't work...

Just paste it all!

You can use

{/quote] with the brackets all square like this:

[quote=meatbalz] Whoopass!

[meatbalz]

How do you feel about people who raze your cities?

hi novice, thanks for lurking.

i'm a pragmatist, so i can accept that in certain circumstances razing can be the right move.

having said that, in general it's not high on my list of "things i'd like to see happen to my civ"

i was honest when i told TT that had our roles been reversed i would have contacted him before razing the city. the way he acted (and he confirmed this directly in the communication that followed the razing) is indicative of an opportunist who doesn't care about making enemies. well, he has one

one last thought - i didn't choose the T100 NAP expiry by chance.