[Spoilers] Commodore as Darius of the HRE

[Ceiliazul]

I did a sim going forward to turn 40. If you go Settler-Settler, both sites work out pretty well. Settling the marshy site first yields an extra 4 food per turn. Settling near horses first gets horses 8 turns sooner.



The cap builds: settler, settler, worker, stonehenge
New cities build granary to start, presumably some military thereafter.

After the worker, revolt to Slavery at any time, and whip stonehenge as well as basic infrastructure in the marsh. (assuming you got around to researching bronze working... :neenernee)

This is all, of course, dependent on good relations with your neighbors. You also need to pull back a warrior ASAP for escort duty, no matter which city comes first.

[Commodore]

Awesome stuff Ceiliazul! I like the plan here, but unfortunately for best laid plans of mice and men, here's what I have:



And both workers are cottaging the gl tile 1N of Aquilonia. They'll be able to hook up horses 2T after the northern site gets founded. One part of my thinking is that I want the three cottage tiles along the river to be worked constantly for the desperately needed science catch up. Also, well, here's MNG's replies:

Hi Commodore,

What a busy day, but I finally have a chance to answer some of your questions:

First off, scouting/map situation. My scout came in from a 1-tile wide land bridge that connects my home island to yours. I noted in the beginning of my thread that I prefer to avoid NAPs that lock players into long-term peace with runaways, but I can assure you that there's no conflict on my horizons for quite some time. I'd be willing to make a settling agreement for the near (meaning 'till ~t100 at least) term, I don't settle north of the "base" of the land bridge and you don't settle south of it. None of this is critical to get decided on soon, by the way, just some initial thoughts. I'm happy to discuss other trades/agreements/etc as they come up.

I agree that NAPs tend to hurt the game more than help it. I don't know if you followed PB3 at all, but I made some diplomatic mistakes. One was signing NAPs that made my intentions too clear to "the enemy". The other was agreeing to settling contracts (especially with Krill) that I shouldn't have, without 100% information. So for the time being, I will aim to avoid those same mistakes. Rest assured that I do have peaceful intentions despite having the highest soldier count in the game.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Finally, have you made contact with anyone else in-game yet? Sorry to go the twenty-questions route, but
you're the first I've bumped into and I was wondering how far away most people were from each other.[/COLOR]

Well, you were my first and only contact. Until, of course, I opened the save 5 minutes after reading this e-mail this morning. My second contact was Yuri to the east. Just like with the two of us, there is a one-tile land bridge connecting my nation and his. Care to venture a guess on the nature of the map?

Hey, just a quick note, my scout was trying to hop around your borders whilst fleeing a lion. I think he went the wrong way (eastwards). Do you mind me trying to loop around seeking other contacts? If you want to tell me how to move my scout around while in your lands that'll be fine.

Actually eastbound would be the right direction. Unfortunately for your scouting efforts, my cultural borders have blocked off any further northbound traffic for now. Do you expect to have writing soon? I'd be happy to offer OB if you do.

Until later,

MNG, Hattie of France

He seems friendly by and large, but a couple things of note:

1. He is a Victim of Krill, and thus my mention of "settling agreement" triggered flashbacks and probably set him on his guard.

2. He's first in soldier points, and willing to negotiate with that as a threat.

3. He and Yuri are north. Thus, our other neighbors are skirmishers or war chariots. While I don't exactly expect either to be rushers, I also don't care for being the obvious weakling.

I hopped away my scout and saw:



Bingo, France's spoke!

So I wrote back:

Hey MNG,

Understand about the caution towards settling agreements without knowledge of the map, don't worry about it. Scout away, just please let me know when/if you do begin settling south (more south than the land bridge, that is) and we'll discuss it then (I'd send screenshots, but did we vote no screens until Paper?)

I should have writing soonishly, once I finish all those basic worker techs that needed like, y'know, Agriculture, The Wheel...never again will I pay so little attention to starting techs in a game with humans. ;P You might have them before me, actually, if you're trying to get those nice cheap libraries in play early. It's fine though, my scout hopped away SE, no sign of the wildlife anymore. I'll head out via the "spoke" that direction.

As you can see above, my theory is that we're all on a "ring" with "spokes" all poking to the middle of the map, much like the hilariously terrible early Hyborian attempts at making one of these "wheel" thingys.

May your Pyramids be pointy,
-Commodore

The last was a poke for information, we'll see what results.

Anyway, the upshot is I'd feel a lot more relaxed with a chariot or two, so I think north will be the first settle, although it's true that the long-term potential will be less. On the plus side, trade route+Org+nearby capital means it won't be much of a drain on the economy.

The sim work is appreciated, nonetheless. I've been playing on two different computers, but I'll try and scrape up all the demo screens into one post.

[Commodore]

And here's waaaay too many demo screens. Spoilered for the uninterested.

Turn 1


Turn 2


Turn 3


Turn 4


Turn 5


Turn 6


Turn 7


Turn 8


Turn 9


Turn 10


Turn 11


Turn 12


Turn 13


Turn 14


Turn 15


Turn 16


Turn 17


Turn 18


Turn 19


Turn 20


Turn 21


Turn 22


Turn 23


Turn 24


Turn 25


Turn 26


Turn 27(? Might be doubled up somewhere...oh bother...)

[Ceiliazul]

I hope MNG comes to the bargaining table sometime soon, but patience is good.

Will you build another settler immediately? If so, where will it go?

[Ceiliazul]

Assuming MNG isn't lying about highest soldier count, I'll take a wild guess.

4 wheel (known)
2 AH
2 mining
8 BW
...and a whopping 5 or 6 warriors. That says "barb duty" to me.


Has Buddha been Fidl'd yet?

In order to get more info from the demos, I also need scores for each turn. I got most of them from screenies, but need turns 2 3 4 7 13 14 15 18 19

[Commodore]

Ack, sorry, I missed the score thing. PM me for email access if you'd like to take a look at the saves directly.

Anyway, Turn 27 went as expected...



Always a good thing. Only small bit of micro-suckiness is that I didn't move the warrior down a little more. This means that Aquilonia will be unhappy for an unnecessary turn when it hits 5. Ah well.

Scouting went well. The center would seem to be an icy crapland.



Whereas the eastward pass is as long as expected. Need those crabs!



Turn 28 greeted me with the (not very) shocking failgold sound effect.



Yeah, RL7 (Ranamar, Lew, Seven Spirits, Bismark of Mali) built the 'henge.



I'm not really torn up about it, of course the non-creative Industrious Civ that starts one tech away from BW would build the wonder. I'll be impressed if they pull the Oracle from Yuri, though.

Buddhism I think remains unfounded. After EOT, the same can't be said for Hinduism:



I'm happy with it. Preferred border popping method, secured! Note also poor Aquilonia, lashing out because its scared. Here's hoping for a quick free spread. Horses incoming in three turns. Now to contemplate where the next city gets placed. My first (probably dumb) thought is to grab ivory for a little happy room, but BW should come in before that choice gets made. Which means that unhappy people get anyway, so copper next! Assuming it's not in-borders already.

[Ceiliazul]

Agreed, no surprising about stonehenge. Also agreed, the religion is better. I would not have detoured away from BW for so long, good call.

I tried to PM you, but not sure if it worked. Can you PM me the info needed for access? How much c&d have you done?

[Commodore]

Yeah, I got about a billion messages in the inbox, something's buggy there, but I sent the info. If you don't get it via PM I can email it. Not much C&D has been done thus far, flailing around blindly with intuition as my guide.

I had figured from the start that I wouldn't get Stonehenge, but thanks to building "wealth" I can keep at 100% research for another nine turns despite the early second city. The BW delay is painful, true, but as a result the empire is up three riverside cottages, pastured horses, and two intact forests. Erm. I think they chopped, anyway, the life expectancy stuff is hard to track.

The nice bit is that tech rate will be picking up, as those early cottages kick in. Next worker project is probably farming the riverside dyes to give a nice 3/0/3 tile until calendar.

[Ceiliazul]

You probably already sent the save, but I recommend a settler build. The city can't afford to grow until slavery comes in...

On the other hand, I think your chances of Hindu spread are >10% per turn, so you've got good odds of landing it in the next 5-8 turns.

[Commodore]

Yep, grew with all the sadness that incurs:



Excepting that unsightly red face, I'm happy with the empire. The new city of Ophir doesn't have the best long-term prospects, but darned if it ain't a nice place now.



Already has one border pop, thanks to Hinduism.



Nine turns until that Ivory is within its culture. Happy cap, here we come!

Sven continues his journeys, finding SILVAR!



I wonder what other sweet resources will show up in this icy hell. In the middle of the map. Hrm. In other news, -2 maintenance, really? Is this normal for a small map?