[SPOILERS] joey and scooter's thread: FUN THINGS ONLY

[Ceiliazul]

will the spear come out first, or will the barb attack the city?

The spear will finish before barbs move.

[GermanJoey]

Ok, I'll believe you! I assume you realized I meant "will the barb attack the undefended city" because that's the only way your answer makes sense. (just got back another awful business trip and I'm tired as hell) In that case, I'll just stay where I am and end turn.

[scooter]

Sorry, not intentionally ignoring - I haven't logged into the forum in days now, just been super busy. Looks like you have things humming along nicely though!

In general, I'm all in favor of playing pretty boldly. In a game with 32 rivals, playing overly conservative is recipe for a strong finish but little chance at a win. With so many rivals, best way to stand out is to play aggressively (but still smartly - picking your spots) and hope it pays off. In this case, I wouldn't worry TOO much about TBS. He's a good player, and if he seriously attacks you early (with Dogs), neither of you are going to win anyway. Anyway, if I were him, I'd be looking at Hashoosh long before I'd be looking at us - no sense in rushing the guy with Aggressive. So while I wouldn't take unnecessary risks, I tend to think that just settling the best spots is wise rather than playing too conservatively for fear of him attacking.

Would love to see an updated empire overview show with the new city factored in. Where and in what order are you thinking for your next couple spots to settle?

[GermanJoey]

Ah, glad to see you're still alive!! I won't have time to provide such an overview today because I have to work overtime tonight, but I'll give a detailed overview tomorrow of the full situation of every city and future spot.

[GermanJoey]

Had a bit of extra time tonight, so here goes. I figure its better to get you up to speed than to appease (and rather, keep teasing) the lurkers in my PB20 thread.

Carnival

Carnival is working off whip unhappiness while building our 5th city; the chop for this settler is due in 3 turns, and so this settler will complete with 29+30+13*3=101 production. Pretty good. After that, I'd like to grow a bit in preparation for the Hammam when masonry is done in 6 turns. I think size 5 should be about right. I'm mining that plains hill in preparation, and our 5th tile can be a cottage to build up for Zoo. Lets see, we'll have 3 turns before Masonry to build either a scout (5/15 currently) or an axe, and then 3 more turns to build the Hammam. We should be able to grow to size 5 in 6 turns. Of course, at that point, another whip unhappiness will roll off and we could actually become size 6. I guess I should start mining another tile at some point soon!

Zoo


I've been a bit conflicted at what to do here. On one hand, we need to grow this city and build infrastructure. On the other hand, we don't want to grow into unhappiness and we need workers. Hmmm... I decided to log back in and change the build to a worker and discovered something very interesting, a bug in RB mod. Or a bug in Civ4 that I've never known about before, which is very surprising. It seems that unhappy citizens actually contribute to production of workers! What the heck! We should be getting 6f1h per turn on this worker, but instead we're getting 8f1h. How about that! Our unhappy citizen becomes content in 3 turns and can work that mine again instead, so that's 3*8f1h+3*7f5h=63 production, enough to finish the worker in 6 turns, just in time to start the Hammam. The Hammam is done in 4 after that, and Zoo should grow up to size 6.

Cedar Point

Cedar Point is a huge amusement park in Northern Ohio that I used to go to all the time as a kid. It definitely fits your naming theme. We have a bit of a barb situation here. One about to attack next turn (or raze the pasture), one two turns away from doing so. Our spear is done just in time, at the end of this turn, Ceiliazul assures me, and can defend the city before the barb attacks. If this is not right PLEASE let me know ASAP as there will probably still be time whip the city in the morning!!! The plan for this city is just to eat chops and puke out units - settlers and military, mostly. We can get a granary up once things settle down a bit more.

Hastee Tastee

I had originally planned to call this city "Popsicle Stand" until I remembered Hastee Tastee, which was a little local ice cream stand in my home town that we used to go to after our little league games. Haven't thought about that place in many, many years. In this city, I want to get borders, then a workboat, then a granary, although I think I might have those last 2 backwards. Hopefully that barb warrior doesn't chase our worker off the corn by moving 1SE as I'd like to get a whip cycle running ASAP here, lots of stuff to build.

Prospective Spots

I've labeled 5 spots - A, B, c, d, e, in roughly the order I'd settle without new information. A and B help Zoo develop cottages for the Palace switch and have 2 food sources in their own right; B can work more cottages quicker, but A doesn't need to build a new food improvement. (it can steal the sheep around the point when Zoo won't want it anymore). I want the first workboat A builds to go off exploring. c gets horses and should have a hooked up fish by then. d gets pigs, which should be developed by then, a fish, and can work a few more cottages. I'd like to start asserting control of our water-border at any rate. e can steal the wheat, gets a clam and 3 freshwater tiles, very nice. Also on the horizon are those northern furs - d and e could get bumped aside if we find seafood up there, although we won't have the units to find out for a bit. Both north and south of Cedar Point have a lot of trees... I'd prefer not to settle south of CP anytime soon though, as to keep our front with TBS focused to the single point at HT.

Tech Path
Prospective tech path is to finish Math (this turn! we're getting 30 instead of 25 beakers into it, so we might not be the first though), then get Masonry (5 turns), then fishing (1 turn with overflow), and then I'm not sure what. My civ instincts would be to go for Currency, but I've been reading your PB13 thread and the known tech modifiers are completely insane in RB mod. Being first to techs has a much lower advantage here, and for a pure-economic tech like Currency that really eats into its relative advantage. Then again, we do have fur and silk just outside our borders... makes a market in Zoo pretty attractive. Archery next isn't a bad idea, as just a single archer stops dogs dead in their tracks and it seems the tech is super cheap in RB Mod. Would be just another turn after Fishing at that point I think. We don't have to decide right away; for a long time we've been rolling off that fat bankroll your scouts found you, but that should be coming to an end in ~7-8 turns I think. Alphabet is another option, as being first to establish foreign trade routes could bring in TONS of cash. It's very unlikely we'll be able to get any happiness resources that way, though, unless we give up something huge like Copper to a civ that's somehow gotten screwed out of it. What do you think?

Foreign Affairs
All quiet on the Western Front. Haven't heard a pip out of TBS although his and Oxy's power has been just recently steadily rising, presumably because they got some units that aren't warriors. TBS's numbers are about the same as ours, although a bit better, while Oxy's GNP and FY are quite a bit better. I've been too heavy on the whip! We get research visibility on TBS in 4 turns.

Our placement on the scoreboard has dropped quite a bit because we have only gotten a single new tech (Writing - remember that I never let Fishing finish!) since Turn 35 I think. Between knocking down a few cheap techs and placing cities left and right, I think we'll shoot right back up!!

Whew, that's it! Any questions?

[scooter]

Zoo
I've been a bit conflicted at what to do here. On one hand, we need to grow this city and build infrastructure. On the other hand, we don't want to grow into unhappiness and we need workers. Hmmm... I decided to log back in and change the build to a worker and discovered something very interesting, a bug in RB mod. Or a bug in Civ4 that I've never known about before, which is very surprising. It seems that unhappy citizens actually contribute to production of workers! What the heck! We should be getting 6f1h per turn on this worker, but instead we're getting 8f1h. How about that! Our unhappy citizen becomes content in 3 turns and can work that mine again instead, so that's 3*8f1h+3*7f5h=63 production, enough to finish the worker in 6 turns, just in time to start the Hammam. The Hammam is done in 4 after that, and Zoo should grow up to size 6.

Yeah, I ran into this recently in my PB13 thread where a city that was unhappy/unhealthy was producing more than expected. Kinda strange, but may as well benefit from it here. Anyway, I agree with worker-hamman next, don't think there's any need to start the palace just yet. My general thinking is the palace probably isn't really worth moving until this city is sz8-9 working and we can get into Bureau.

Cedar Point
Cedar Point is a huge amusement park in Northern Ohio that I used to go to all the time as a kid. It definitely fits your naming theme. We have a bit of a barb situation here. One about to attack next turn (or raze the pasture), one two turns away from doing so. Our spear is done just in time, at the end of this turn, Ceiliazul assures me, and can defend the city before the barb attacks. If this is not right PLEASE let me know ASAP as there will probably still be time whip the city in the morning!!! The plan for this city is just to eat chops and puke out units - settlers and military, mostly. We can get a granary up once things settle down a bit more.

Went there for the first time in years last summer, always fun . Anyway, yeah I'm like 85% sure Ceiliazul is right. How's that for certainty.

Hastee Tastee

I had originally planned to call this city "Popsicle Stand" until I remembered Hastee Tastee, which was a little local ice cream stand in my home town that we used to go to after our little league games. Haven't thought about that place in many, many years. In this city, I want to get borders, then a workboat, then a granary, although I think I might have those last 2 backwards. Hopefully that barb warrior doesn't chase our worker off the corn by moving 1SE as I'd like to get a whip cycle running ASAP here, lots of stuff to build.

Prospective Spots

I've labeled 5 spots - A, B, c, d, e, in roughly the order I'd settle without new information. A and B help Zoo develop cottages for the Palace switch and have 2 food sources in their own right; B can work more cottages quicker, but A doesn't need to build a new food improvement. (it can steal the sheep around the point when Zoo won't want it anymore). I want the first workboat A builds to go off exploring. c gets horses and should have a hooked up fish by then. d gets pigs, which should be developed by then, a fish, and can work a few more cottages. I'd like to start asserting control of our water-border at any rate. e can steal the wheat, gets a clam and 3 freshwater tiles, very nice. Also on the horizon are those northern furs - d and e could get bumped aside if we find seafood up there, although we won't have the units to find out for a bit. Both north and south of Cedar Point have a lot of trees... I'd prefer not to settle south of CP anytime soon though, as to keep our front with TBS focused to the single point at HT.

Tech Path
Prospective tech path is to finish Math (this turn! we're getting 30 instead of 25 beakers into it, so we might not be the first though), then get Masonry (5 turns), then fishing (1 turn with overflow), and then I'm not sure what. My civ instincts would be to go for Currency, but I've been reading your PB13 thread and the known tech modifiers are completely insane in RB mod. Being first to techs has a much lower advantage here, and for a pure-economic tech like Currency that really eats into its relative advantage. Then again, we do have fur and silk just outside our borders... makes a market in Zoo pretty attractive. Archery next isn't a bad idea, as just a single archer stops dogs dead in their tracks and it seems the tech is super cheap in RB Mod. Would be just another turn after Fishing at that point I think. We don't have to decide right away; for a long time we've been rolling off that fat bankroll your scouts found you, but that should be coming to an end in ~7-8 turns I think. Alphabet is another option, as being first to establish foreign trade routes could bring in TONS of cash. It's very unlikely we'll be able to get any happiness resources that way, though, unless we give up something huge like Copper to a civ that's somehow gotten screwed out of it. What do you think?

Foreign Affairs
All quiet on the Western Front. Haven't heard a pip out of TBS although his and Oxy's power has been just recently steadily rising, presumably because they got some units that aren't warriors. TBS's numbers are about the same as ours, although a bit better, while Oxy's GNP and FY are quite a bit better. I've been too heavy on the whip! We get research visibility on TBS in 4 turns.

Our placement on the scoreboard has dropped quite a bit because we have only gotten a single new tech (Writing - remember that I never let Fishing finish!) since Turn 35 I think. Between knocking down a few cheap techs and placing cities left and right, I think we'll shoot right back up!!

Whew, that's it! Any questions?
[/quote]

[scooter]

Zoo
I've been a bit conflicted at what to do here. On one hand, we need to grow this city and build infrastructure. On the other hand, we don't want to grow into unhappiness and we need workers. Hmmm... I decided to log back in and change the build to a worker and discovered something very interesting, a bug in RB mod. Or a bug in Civ4 that I've never known about before, which is very surprising. It seems that unhappy citizens actually contribute to production of workers! What the heck! We should be getting 6f1h per turn on this worker, but instead we're getting 8f1h. How about that! Our unhappy citizen becomes content in 3 turns and can work that mine again instead, so that's 3*8f1h+3*7f5h=63 production, enough to finish the worker in 6 turns, just in time to start the Hammam. The Hammam is done in 4 after that, and Zoo should grow up to size 6.

Yeah, I ran into this recently in my PB13 thread where a city that was unhappy/unhealthy was producing more than expected. Kinda strange, but may as well benefit from it here. Anyway, I agree with worker-hamman next, don't think there's any need to start the palace just yet. My general thinking is the palace probably isn't really worth moving until this city is sz8-9 (and ready to get bigger) working lots of cottages and we can get into Bureau.

Any thoughts on where to eventually get our academy scientist out of? Double fish may be a decent place for that, but still quite a bit of work needs to happen before it's ready for that (granary, two work boats, probably lighthouse, library, size 4 are the prereqs there). I'm guessing we'll just have Zoo do it in the end.

Cedar Point
Cedar Point is a huge amusement park in Northern Ohio that I used to go to all the time as a kid. It definitely fits your naming theme. We have a bit of a barb situation here. One about to attack next turn (or raze the pasture), one two turns away from doing so. Our spear is done just in time, at the end of this turn, Ceiliazul assures me, and can defend the city before the barb attacks. If this is not right PLEASE let me know ASAP as there will probably still be time whip the city in the morning!!! The plan for this city is just to eat chops and puke out units - settlers and military, mostly. We can get a granary up once things settle down a bit more.

Went there for the first time in years last summer, always fun . Anyway, yeah I'm like 85% sure Ceiliazul is right. How's that for certainty.

Hastee Tastee
I had originally planned to call this city "Popsicle Stand" until I remembered Hastee Tastee, which was a little local ice cream stand in my home town that we used to go to after our little league games. Haven't thought about that place in many, many years. In this city, I want to get borders, then a workboat, then a granary, although I think I might have those last 2 backwards. Hopefully that barb warrior doesn't chase our worker off the corn by moving 1SE as I'd like to get a whip cycle running ASAP here, lots of stuff to build.

Yeah, I think you want the granary first, especially since you have a food already there in first ring as is. Agreed on all the prospective spots and their order.

Tech Path
Prospective tech path is to finish Math (this turn! we're getting 30 instead of 25 beakers into it, so we might not be the first though), then get Masonry (5 turns), then fishing (1 turn with overflow), and then I'm not sure what. My civ instincts would be to go for Currency, but I've been reading your PB13 thread and the known tech modifiers are completely insane in RB mod. Being first to techs has a much lower advantage here, and for a pure-economic tech like Currency that really eats into its relative advantage. Then again, we do have fur and silk just outside our borders... makes a market in Zoo pretty attractive. Archery next isn't a bad idea, as just a single archer stops dogs dead in their tracks and it seems the tech is super cheap in RB Mod. Would be just another turn after Fishing at that point I think. We don't have to decide right away; for a long time we've been rolling off that fat bankroll your scouts found you, but that should be coming to an end in ~7-8 turns I think. Alphabet is another option, as being first to establish foreign trade routes could bring in TONS of cash. It's very unlikely we'll be able to get any happiness resources that way, though, unless we give up something huge like Copper to a civ that's somehow gotten screwed out of it. What do you think?

I wouldn't worry too much about known tech bonus just yet. It didn't really explode in 13 until much, much later, and it's different in this version. Classical techs only give you a 2% bonus per person met with the tech, so at worst you're giving a neighbor a 2% bonus on Currency. The commerce bonus from getting Currency ASAP greatly outweights that pittance, so I would just slot in Currency right away. Known tech bonus in general is toned way down from what it was in 13.

Ancient: No bonus
Classical: +2% per met player with tech, max +50% (no further bonus after 25 players)
Medieval: +4% per met player with tech, max +50% (no further bonus after 13 players, 13th is only +2%)
Rennaissance: +6% per met player with tech, max +50% (no further bonus after 9 players, 9th is only +2%)
Industrial: +8% per met player with tech, max +75% (no further bonus after 10 players, 10th is only +3%)
Modern: +8% per met player with tech, max +75% (no further bonus after 10 players, 10th is only +3%)
Future: +8% per met player with tech, max +75% (no further bonus after 10 players, 10th is only +3%)

Overall, looks good . I'm thinking Monarchy for HR will definitely be a target for us.

[GermanJoey]

Sweet, sounds like a plan then.

[GermanJoey]

By the way, do you have any ideas for city names? We'll need a bunch soon!

[GermanJoey]

Blughh, barborrior #1 razed our sheeps and barborrior #2 chased our worker off the corn. I sent the cornguy 2N2W to chop. 2 chops completed at Cedar Point, which is unfortunate because I wanted to build an axe but we'd lose 4 hammers that way because we had 5 overflow from last turn. (74 total hammers produced this turn and we can't overflow more than 35 on an axe) Maybe we should just do it anyways...