Ride to ruin and the world's ending! (TBS, Becko & Joao)

[The Black Sword]

Yeah, I still get the crabs, I just don't get to LH them. So, 1hpt immediately instead of paying 60h for 1fpt down the line and much better additional tiles too, with rivers and grassland vs water. There is a bit of a delay in hooking the crabs, but ignoring fishing has allowed for a faster SH too.

[Becko]

Looking good! I agree that with the distances involved, sentries are enough military for a while yet. Mind the barbs though. I am a bit worried about the distance between our first and our second ring to the east, but can't think of a better configuration. That tundra island could be useful, actually. It'd grow fast and live off coastal tiles and trade routes.

In scorekeeping news: none of our principal SH competitors have discovered new techs since T41. Oxy and Thoth got new techs this turn, Thoth also whipped. Subject to operator error, etc. We have graphs on Commodore yet?

[The Black Sword]

Ran into a Gaspar warrior, so I stayed on the forest not to tempt him:


I don't really think they'd attack, but it's possible if they're also going for circumnav. Speaking of:


Hope this guy suicides correctly:


In other news, Oxy founded city no. 3 and we'll get graphs on Commodore next turn. I have to admit being a bit nervous about being last to 3 cities with Joao ... Need to land SH. There are some other (possible) mitigating factors; none of the others are in slavery, so that's a turn saved and I doubt they have a single granary, let alone two. Here's our demos:



That GNP is on Myst, so no pre-req bonus, hopefully only the 1 known tech bonus and no extraneous culture. Our GNP has been pretty consistently high and combined with our high score, which must be part pop, part tech, I think we're doing pretty well there. Our food figure on the other hand is masked by our high pop.

On that note, do you have any ideas why dtay is trailing so much in score? He recently had an 8 pop decrease, would that fit with a whip? We know he's been in a turn split with Gaspwyn and we've seen an injured Ottoman warrior ...

[Becko]

In other news, Oxy founded city no. 3 and we'll get graphs on Commodore next turn. I have to admit being a bit nervous about being last to 3 cities with Joao ... Need to land SH. There are some other (possible) mitigating factors; none of the others are in slavery, so that's a turn saved and I doubt they have a single granary, let alone two.

Well, if you want an excuse, our edge for the second and third cities isn't that big. Sure, we should still be a bit faster than the rest, but since those first workers and settlers are built mostly with food, we're only talking about a few hammers. It isn't until we have the basic setup done (whip/chop and granaries) that we really should start to pull away. And I think we were the first to have both BW and Pottery, which might justify our vertical-ish start.

But yeah, we should probably have as a goal to be first to cities 6 and 7...

Here's our demos:



That GNP is on Myst, so no pre-req bonus, hopefully only the 1 known tech bonus and no extraneous culture. Our GNP has been pretty consistently high and combined with our high score, which must be part pop, part tech, I think we're doing pretty well there. Our food figure on the other hand is masked by our high pop.

Given that we have three CRE civs in there, our GNP is great. FWIW, if my tech path guesses are correct, I have us on 758 accumulated beakers, which is joint highest with Gaspar (only completed techs counted).

We have 10 pop right now. Judging by the scores, I have Oxy and Gaspar on 8 pop, Pin on 7, Thoth on 6, Commodore on 5 and Dtay on 4. Seems to fit the F9 pop (e.g. Oxy or Gaspar on cities of 5, 2 and 1 pop). And we have productive ways of using that lead now.

On that note, do you have any ideas why dtay is trailing so much in score? He recently had an 8 pop decrease, would that fit with a whip? We know he's been in a turn split with Gaspwyn and we've seen an injured Ottoman warrior ...

Huh, that's interesting. The -8 on T42 definitely fits a two-pop whip (was mid-turn too), and we've had a few of those on other players too -- Thoth last turn, Commodore this one. But if he whipped a settler, he's taking a while to settle, and he's not regrowing. Whipping a worker, overflow to settler (boo)? Whipping defenders to break a choke (yay)? He just updated his fairly dormant thread, too.

Mechanics question: it can't be a razed city, right? Because that's two pop, which means it wouldn't auto-raze, which means whoever razed it would have had a temporary score increase. OTOH, the barbs don't keep score... :P

Also, this is about the time when tracking the score will start getting complicated, with whips and overlapping land scores, so we're increasingly going to have to rely on graphs to feed our paranoia. Now it's just keeping our fingers crossed. Commodore whipped this turn; if he gets a tech next turn, we might be screwed.

[The Black Sword]

We just got Commodore's graphs, here you go:





The event log confirms he used Spi to revolt to Slavery this turn and whipped, here's hoping he doesn't take/win that coinflip .

Oxy's going to be hard to catch I'm afraid, his second city is just so good, that's where his jumps are coming from. Just have to put our faith in our granaries ...

We put our population to good use ourselves:


Our warrior survived but was quite injured. I'm sending the capital's one over to reinforce next turn. I might try fit the horses and a chariot in earlier to the micro plan if possible. I haven't moved our scout yet, waiting for Gaspar to move first.

Huh, that's interesting. The -8 on T42 definitely fits a two-pop whip (was mid-turn too), and we've had a few of those on other players too -- Thoth last turn, Commodore this one. But if he whipped a settler, he's taking a while to settle, and he's not regrowing. Whipping a worker, overflow to settler (boo)? Whipping defenders to break a choke (yay)? He just updated his fairly dormant thread, too.

Mechanics question: it can't be a razed city, right? Because that's two pop, which means it wouldn't auto-raze, which means whoever razed it would have had a temporary score increase. OTOH, the barbs don't keep score... tongue

I thought it might be the barbs, because it happened at the start of the turn and maybe the extra pressure from the Ottomans is what caused it, you're right that they couldn't have razed it themselves. Double checking civstats though, he was logged in on the turn roll, so I guess a whip makes sense.

Also, this is about the time when tracking the score will start getting complicated, with whips and overlapping land scores, so we're increasingly going to have to rely on graphs to feed our paranoia. Now it's just keeping our fingers crossed. Commodore whipped this turn; if he gets a tech next turn, we might be screwed.

Thanks for doing it so far! I know it's a lot of work and keeps increasing.

[Becko]

We just got Commodore's graphs, here you go:

(snip)

The event log confirms he used Spi to revolt to Slavery this turn and whipped, here's hoping he doesn't take/win that coinflip .

Just saw the turn roll. No score increase for Commodore, only for us (6 points for Myst)... and Thoth. Who got 5 points. That's either land points if he settled a city on T25 and got exactly 5 new tiles in his culture -- or the 5 points you get from building a wonder.

He wouldn't, would he?

Thanks for doing it so far! I know it's a lot of work and keeps increasing.

No problem, I wouldn't be doing it unless I enjoyed it. And the workload is no problem, it's more that I'm getting less and less confident in my analysis. But hey, there's no such thing as bad data, right? Oh wait, I'm thinking of publicity... :P

Besides, following your micro this closely has made me realize that I have a lot of work to do before I can contribute on that end. And if I'm going to be ded-lurking I should contribute something other than John Wayne movie titles, right?

[WilliamLP]

That's either land points if he settled a city on T25 and got exactly 5 new tiles in his culture -- or the 5 points you get from building a wonder.

You get 16 points for a wonder, not 5. (16.129, actually).

[Becko]

You get 16 points for a wonder, not 5. (16.129, actually).

Ohh right, was thinking of the base points. Thanks William!

(See what I was talking about with the bad data? But at least that means we're no worse than a coinflip, right?)

[The Black Sword]

We're looking good. From our demos last turn, I'm pretty sure we didn't have a second pre-req on Myst, so Commodore didn't have the tech then and no score increase means he doesn't have it now. Still dtay and Pindicator as competition but it's looking good.

Turns out I was right to be cautious of Gaspar:


Maybe Lewwyn is rubbing off on him? I moved back to circle around south and offered an unlikely peace. The quest for circumnav probably rests with this guy:



Someone, (Thoth I presume?), has an intimidating 39 food yield in the demos, got to push expansion hard now.

Finally, we actually have some tech decisions to make right now. Most pressing is the question whether we should try to pick up Meditation since the religion hasn't fallen. This would give us a shrine down the line from our GP and a religion will probably be useful later. I think we've payed enough for SH though and I'm thinking we should focus our beakers on the more immediately useful techs; Fishing -> Sailing, Writing, Maths. We should see if we can get trade routes with sailing and writing rather than being forced to settle a weak IC city. Maths before I chop all our forests. I'm not sure if we should slip in archery in there somewhere though. Do you think anything else would be useful here and what's your thoughts on archery and meditation?

[Becko]

We're looking good. From our demos last turn, I'm pretty sure we didn't have a second pre-req on Myst, so Commodore didn't have the tech then and no score increase means he doesn't have it now. Still dtay and Pindicator as competition but it's looking good.

I'm not gonna jinx it, so I'll just be quiet till next turn. But:



(Yes, I know the other meaning. Figured it could do double duty in case we are robbed. :P)

Turns out I was right to be cautious of Gaspar: (snip) Maybe Lewwyn is rubbing off on him? I moved back to circle around south and offered an unlikely peace.

Heh, think they're interested in circumnav too? Maybe we should name our western explorer, BTW? Say, Dusty Rhodes or John Steele or Duke Slade or some other no-nonsense Wayne character. Fun fact: Wayne starred as eight different characters in eight different movies in one year (1935), and all of them were named John. Shades of Tony Danza...

Finally, we actually have some tech decisions to make right now. Most pressing is the question whether we should try to pick up Meditation since the religion hasn't fallen. This would give us a shrine down the line from our GP and a religion will probably be useful later. I think we've payed enough for SH though and I'm thinking we should focus our beakers on the more immediately useful techs; Fishing -> Sailing, Writing, Maths. We should see if we can get trade routes with sailing and writing rather than being forced to settle a weak IC city. Maths before I chop all our forests. I'm not sure if we should slip in archery in there somewhere though. Do you think anything else would be useful here and what's your thoughts on archery and meditation?

Well, when I play myself, I usually go hard for Math, Currency and down that path to CS, sometimes to a fault, so take this for what it's worth (very little). But I do think we'll need scientists quite soon, both for research and for academizing The Conqueror. And Maths after Writing feeds our traits and fuels our expanson. Meditation, I feel, doesn't do all that much right now if we're not going further down that line, and then Poly -> Mono seems better. But a shrine is nice if you think this is our best shot to get a religion. Are we holding off on Monarchy till after Currency and the other economic techs?

I'd say Archery depends on how much you plan on pushing Keshiks. Hopefully, we won't need them for anything in particular, but they're useful as a deterrent too. Maybe Archery -> HBR? That might be too early after Maths, but as I said, I think I tend to go too hard for the economic techs myself, so not sure how much compensation is in order.