[Spoilers PB27] REM tries to get a handle on this mod

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Who the hell techs to galleons before CS!

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid156619

Note saying its a bad idea - novel and unusual. Certainly would not have expected it if my archer hadn't got lucky with his movements. Very little good it'll do me though. I'll have a few pikes pre war but I won't be able to stop them.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

However even if I had played all those perfectly I still do not think I would be ahead of mack here. His early expansion speed without a helping trait was breathtaking, he had a very good early war with seemingly minimal loss and now has org like me to help him run his empire.

Taotao played all the early turns, and I think you forgot that they're Cre, definitely a strong early expansion trait.

Thought they had fin... Still would expect imp to out settle cre. Misplayed my opening methinks! Or certainly not as well as them.

Plus they were well ahead of Commodores cre/exp early powerhouse. Just an incredibly well played opening, with a good fast decisive early war.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Photodump from a few turns ago. First the fateful mistake of taotao to let me see the galleons... I will be somewhat prepared now at least with engineering.

Demos/graphs from a couple of turns ago. GNP is max wealth

Tech lead and 2-3 times the prod of everyone else? Oh dear... I am slipping in military power a little which is slightly concerning. However the dutch have a fair bit of power covering the south still. I do have city vis on him at least. He won't get much past me from his empire anyway.

My current land advantage is quite large. And it doesn't include the new Elkad territory. Just resettled his capital, and am now up to 37 cities. Org is REALLY paying for me here with the courthouses and general civic reduction.

Elkad is holed up in 2 cities left. The moai city I should take this turn when I can play, unsure about the other city. He has a lot of spears in there... I don't want to kill myself and be open to plako rolling onto myself if I am busy defending against the dutch also... Bah. At least I have no happy issues and only minor war weary.


The field has settled out rather nicely. There is taotao up top clearly in the lead, a top group which I am in consisting of 6 of us who all gained land early in an early war, and then a lower group of 7 who are doing ok but seem to be limited by land amount. Then finally a lower 5 who have been at war for a while and on the loosing end.

Plans wise I will be able to throw a golden age in 9 turns when most of Elkads territory will be out of revolution. Get into emancipation and hope that somehow taotao can throw away that lead... Unlikely with mack weighing in and playing turns. I might be able to enact a decent amount of war weary if they war with me and allow England/Inca a chance to weigh in. However much more likely outcome is that if Dutch go on me, Sedora, Borsche, Plako/Nyles will all try and get a piece of my empire!

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Interesting turn. I recieved this from CH. I think I probably should not have accepted now, but oh well. Free gold!

Who knows what he is trying to get me to see/do? I guess he is going to attack someone in 3 turns, although I am REALLY stretched currently. I don't have enough mobile forces to finish Elkad on 2 cities for christ's sake! I ain't gonna be no help to no one in any offensive war for an era now really. Depending on what happens re plako/Nyles I might be able to snipe a city or 2 there but I doubt I will be able to do anything pre Elkad killing. I do wonder where he is going. I cannot believe he wants to go for either England or the Dutch... He will be slaughtered either way.

Speaking of which... I have had such a bad run at assassin! 3 in a row 70% odds to kill that last spear... FFS. I should have wheeled another HA into an attacking position there and done the combats before other moves but I thought my forces would be enough... With the sword and chariot both having promos to take I should hopefully be able to take it next turn. Like I have been saying for 5 turns.

Demos are interesting. I could probably blow the demos away on priesthood with the KTB I would get but I prefer to stay below the radar. Slowing backfilling to reach knights and emancipation for the GA. With most of Elkads cities out of revolution (my last 3 next turn) things are starting to pick up. Big big empire now. Finally first in crop yield. MFG still sorely lagging.

Part of the reason why I am having issues is have hit limit on city expenses. Size 1 cities are costing max no of cities gpt of 6 in addition to the distance modifyers. Probably should have burnt a couple of the mediocre cities on the border with Borsche. A bit greedy I am I feel. But if I can get them up they will be nice hammer cities.

Finally empire shots! Too many to go in close to cities, but with all the options ticked you get a rough idea of what is going on. Shots are anti clockwise from 12 of the empire.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Wow. Just looked at Civstats. CH did indeed go for taotao and managed to pull off a raze of a city... This dude obviously wants to make a mark. From the countdown that he gave me I thought that he would not be going until the next turn however.

This is the setup I could see of their border on the turn that the raze occurred. I can't see where he would be able to get a raze here...

That should have been a clear signal of war to taotao when he played. Would have been worth declaring on CH to kill the 2 workers under my warrior to prevent their roading, because then he forks those 2 cities nicely and gets a hill to deter attacking with collateral.

EDIT actually those 2 workers could have been a nice bluff - with engineering he could strike from the black into Maersk. He has no pikes but that could have been his countdown to war.

However I cannot see CH being able to do much here. I feel really bad but I am super stretched with taking out Elkad, covering my coastal cities re Indiamen and keeping an eye on Borsche and Sedora - how he responds here will be crucial. If he goes at taotao when the peace treaty runs out (4ish turns now I believe) then the runaway might be hauled in. I counted forces and those that I could see CH had about 20-30% more than taotao. I think he has a lot of stuff on ships orbiting me, or I am supremely paranoid.

I am just waiting for this though...

Going golden unharrassed and getting emancipation up will blast me forwards (I will also be able to go PS and get some troops up). Only taotao and Sedora are running it so far. If CH can keep taotao busy long enough I can maybe have a chance.

After banking, I am thinking about beelining chemistry. The increased tile values as I am running large amounts of tiles and going out of whipping mode might make it worth it, along with quick access to grens for military safety, but they would be vulnerable to cavalry unfortunately.

I seem to have been very lucky with 'events' in this game - if 'events' hand me a chance to get back in things then who knows what might happen! I am managing to get through the techs I am lagging nicely with the KTB and my huge teching ability at max output. If only I didn't need to cover my coast I might have been able to spare some wealth builds.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Well it was indeed like I saw afterwards. Taotao did see the move and took the 2 workers on the hill like I would have, and missed the raze ability from the black using engineering like I probably would have too. CH seems to have had a decent amount of success there, although taotao will be able to replenish troops far more easily. He might be able to walk past and hit Zenyatta but I doubt it.

Sedora seems to be sending everything of his to his south, a lot of knights moving that way. I think I will be spared for a good 10 turns further. He would be smart to use the CH/taotao conflict to take out a weaker neightbour. I'm glad he isn't going for me or Borsche.

2 turns for guilds, and probably 2 for banking with maybe some wealth builds. Meaning I get emancipation right at the start of the GA.

Only worry is covering plako to the west. I think he will be stuck against Nyles for a while. He has a lot of longbows and plako only 3 cats advancing on the cap. With maces being his strongest unit this will be slow.

I should be able to finish Elkad either next turn or the turn after. I now have 4 cats on him and he is down to 30% def. His units are quite highly promoed, but I have good numbers, and a few super swords and mace gens. Should get enough XP for another GG too.

My only other thoughts is whether I should pave over some cottages/hamlets in old commodore land... There is Khabovrask in old commodore land with a good amount of hills and river/food that would be ideal for a watermill/mine bonanza... But cottages at towns are incredible! Basically I am thinking do I go down looking to go FS/US at the end, or SP... Probably edging towards FS/US BUT if I can somehow get back to relevance re taotao then building a spaceship in that setup would be very hard.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

I am becoming cautiously optimistic again here... This game has been quite high and low! CH has really thrown me a bone. He has been doing a lot better than I anticipated, and if he starts running to his back lines could really mess things up for him. I wish I could share with him this intel... I also probably should have kept in turn order with taotao, just to keep him guessing. Not much on our border anyway though.

Whilst reflecting on this I think it is worthwhile at an attempt at this signalling milarky. I offered him ivory/fish/sheep and hope he gets the idea that he should go past to Zenyatta... I have duplicates of all these so doesn't hugely matter, and have no sugar at all. The complete visability of taotao is defintely a bonus of having a huge empire with many courthouses. I will try to push to get it on sedora now next. I feel that would be very beneficial.

I will get guilds this turn and have another 4 to go before I can go golden and get emancipation up. Banking could probably come next turn, although I will save gold after this and plan to get it the turn of the GP birth.

Demos are looking quite good now, here at break even. GNP and MFG should both boom now I am stopping slaving as much, and increasing tile yields. Also I am now trying to quickly grow back the former Elkad cities to relevance. Lots of juicy tiles to start using there. Currently I know the dutch can max gold about 50 or so more than me however that lead should evaporate in the next 5-10 turns. CY lead will probably rise further in the next few turns as I start getting most cities at size 12-15 with no further whipping, and that land area will grow more once I get all the border pops to my East. I think part of the reason why I have such a good GNP for the size is I have a huge amount of routes, I have 2 commerce + routes for each of my cities currently.

The main issue is the troop count. Even though it looks respectable, that is boosted a lot by my size and buildings. I really need to get some more troops on the go, especially because of this. ->

Whilst he will probably suffer heavy losses to take the final Babylonian cities, this force will suddenly appear on my border after Elkad/Nyles are eaten. I think it is not worth attempting to take a few extra cities off Babylon to keep a good border between myself and Germany given how stretched I am currently. Sending a few pikes that way and knights too. Yuris should hopefully dissuade him from lauching a first strike against me.

Borsche seems quite content to sit where he is, plus he is also rather small and mainly rocking a HA army. He can see how little I have around his cities, yet hasn't threatened me in any way. He seems content to peacefully nab a little more land, plus I am trading a couple of happy sources to him, trades which I no longer need but am happy to keep going to keep him sweet currently.

Sedora I am cautious of, but I think with his war v taotao torching their trade bonus he probably needs me for routes even if I am weak. Plus with the CH/taotao war going on (and no more treaty between them it seems, I guess it expired earlier than I thought) him jumping in here seems much more likely to me. Indeed from my recent scouting (a little late, but I really lacked OB with many people until my own alpha research) CH and him have a much more extensive border than I thought.

Elkad I will probably hit and try to finish next turn. Currently 11 defenders v 20 attackers and 4 cats. Bit too risky given their promos and still 30% defence. I bombed it down to 14% and now have a 5th cat there. I guess he will get 1 further defender in the city, but the extra collateral and the reduced def bonus is worth it. Tempted to leave it one more turn as I doubt he will be able to build another unit and I can clear out the defences completely then. I am not in a hurry to kill him really.

My current world

Taotao seems to be going heavily for islands... Good play for him with the dutch dike changes, 2 hammers for the water tiles makes those cities really valuable. Needs to reach SP and get them up (probably with gold) but long term very nice.

Finally indecisive me still cannot decide what to do with here I have a few turns before the cottage cannot be bulldozed... I am thinking more and more the hammers are more important and to go mines/watermills/farms but before next turn need to have a long think about the late game civics I want to run.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Elkad is dead! Woo!

I had pretty good success against him too. Lost 5 cats and a HA only to all his 14 defenders, and he had upgraded a few of his archers to crossbows.

Borsche had scared me with those workers, and he has quite a few accross our border. However he doesn't seem too fighty, and I have a lot of units lying around to make it awkward for him.

In Babylon, Nyles is putting up a pretty defiant fight. I don't think plako has enough in that stack to end things in babylon. He has a lot of knights moving to the front, and he is in a GA currently. Nyles has emptied almost all of his other cities. Still unsure whether to go and get a few more cities off him. I am on 39 now - I would like to break 40!

Down south I am upset CH has retreated... Taotao just seems to have so little around there. Which makes me worried where East Indiamen full of knights are tbh. Maybe he is wheeling them around to down there?

Almost considered asking for a reload because of this failure - misclicked the e explore hotkey and emptied Yatusk. If I get in before taotao I can move back in without any issue. Will be a little annoyed if that causes a war.

So no war now currently, moving a few pikes across to Elkad region to deter plako. 3 turns until a GA, emancipation and Police state. I think the plan in the GA is see if I can make it to another civic for a free swap (doubtful, closest would probably be economics which I am short paper and edu once the GA starts and the free GP would be nice, I will be able to birth a non merchant GP from smolesk during the GA) and the extra route per city could be huge. Although I think I will hit a limit on cities that I can have routes to.

Otherwise try not to fold! If I can't reach a civic swap (other would be free religion through lib, but I doubt anyone would let me take that being as behind as I am, and I would also need philo)

Just logging back in it is just shy of 8500 beakers from economics. That is a lot to try and make in 1 GA. I guess this is the tech scaling showing. If I were to go for lib it would be another 1500 for philo. Currently making just over 400 beakers break even per turn non GA. If I go into GA and emancipation I expect to hit about 700 break even. All of them have a 1 known tech discount, I don't know if anyone has paper (not sure if taotao finished it) and pretty sure no one has edu. I think with some wealth builds then it might be doable, plus I will have about 500 gold stocked up after 2 turns of -40 gold and then 1 turn saving pre the GA. But I am forgetting I need to hit it in 7 turns, not 8 to get the free civic swap... I think that may be out of reach. It's a wait to see what the GA brings because I have a huge number of tiles worked it might be better than I think.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

In fact just looking at that map I feel really sorry for Nyles - he killed like 80% of Elkads military maybe more, and got nothing except hit himself. I managed to gain about 80% of the spoils!

[Elkad]

Thanks for the fun.

I really wanted to help Commodore (and stall you), but you steamrolled him. My jumping in turned out to be pointless, and just delayed my south-east expansion instead.

When Nyles declared (or a couple turns before when I got uneasy), I had no choice but to move my troops his way and hope you got in a fight with taotau or something.

Unfortunately, I had lots of spears to fight off your HA with, which do terrible vs Nyles swords. I had hopes to stop him and turn around, but you guessed/saw my troops were gone faster than I expected and forked everywhere. (Rightly, as nearly everything of mine had left)

Losing my capital to his galley was a mistake on my part (knew it was there, forgot about it the next turn and moved a crossbow out). You would have gotten an Academy there, which should have convinced you to try to hold it. My troops were turning around to try to get it back.

Instead Tarnsman burned, so there was no point. So I kept on and broke Nyles, since he's the one that started a war he couldn't win.