Dave Taste Tests Some Russian Wines

[oledavy]

Turn 17


Internet being wonky, so no screenshot this time. 

Warrior is still coming home, both scouts continuing on their respective paths. Ichabod or Pindicator researched trapping. Still no second policy from Pindicator, so it seems likely that he definitely is going liberty. 

Chardonnay still grows.

[oledavy]

Turns 18-19

We have a few things to discuss before the t20 review. First off, the recent revelation regarding strategic resources, which I really hope we can get fixed. 

But, assuming we can't, here are the impacts this will probably have:

 - Liberty stronger because you can plant more cities just to pick up strategic resources.
 - Order nerfed because people will likely only be able to build one or two factories (Workers facilities gutted)
 - Ideologies will fall later because people can't build 3 factories to kick it off, and more SP's will be picked up. 
 - Depending on the strategic resource situation with city-states, Cultural Diplomacy will be stronger.
 - Third Alternative gets a big boost

Generally, and again, it depends on how the late game strat resources are placed, I expect that this will have little impact on the game until industrialization.  

Everyone has 2 horses it seems, 4 for us. I'm actually pretty annoyed by this, I wanted to field more Cossacks than that. My UA is not going to have as big an effect because the numerical difference is smaller (8 to 4 vs. 4 to 2), and I will probably want more than 4 horse units. I'm already scrapping my chariot archer idea in favor of archers early because I don't want to tie up a horse resource for a knight later in a chariot archer. However, it's not nearly as debilitating as it will be for Yuri. I'm honestly surprised he wasn't more in favor of making sure we get the problem fixed.

As an aside, Pindicator has 3 horse resources in his part of the continent. 

No though, with the general lack of emphasis on horsemen and chariot archers, the horse deficiency won't be felt for awhile. We will be feeling it around knights and cavalry though. The lack of mounted units buffs up ranged units even farther - especially crossbows. 

Iron also shouldn't have a terribly huge effect, given that people don't generally build many swordsmen or longswordsman. Pindicator will be hurting, but he apparently is okay with it, so I guess it's whatever....

No though, the biggest effect of this will be that nobody can really frigate rush. I expect everyone to have 2-3 iron. For my part, I expect 2-4. This is not enough to overrun someone. After Galleasess, all ranged sea units require a resource. The lack of iron will make it really hard to attack someone from the sea as the game goes on, and to make progress people will just have to keep ramming destroyers into the city. The net effect is that it's now basically impossible to make a difference on the other continent, so you better hope the other continent doesn't have the runaway. 

The effects of little coal are already noted above. It's also worth noting that it looks like ironclads could be strong on this map, but you sure as shit won't be building any now.  

Modern war is going to be impossible. Artillery will reign supreme, moreso than usual. The game will probably be over by this point, so it probably won't be an issue. But with a lack of planes, tanks and advanced aluminum units, making progress against an opponent will be near impossible without autocracy. You had better be winning by that point, because the status quo will be very hard to change.  

Finally uranium. I think the strategic resource issue is a simultaneous nerf and buff to Russia in general. The iron won't be very impactful. The horse advantage is nice but is less of an advantage than I would have otherwise. It would be a huge buff to me if I had got liberty. But with tradition, it's not an ability I can really leverage. That being said, if the game goes late, the uranium buff will be very nice and potentially really impactful. Twice as many nukes is nothing to sneeze at. That is so far down the road though, that it's not worth thinking about at this point

So, TL;DR version. Our 'variant' won't dramatically change game until industrialization. Liberty empires get a buff, crossbows get a buff, and sea combat is really nerfed. There will be less knights and cavalry running around, but it shouldn't be a huge deal. Modern offensive warfare will be impossible. Nerfs order, buffs autocracy. Pindicator and Yuri got shafted.

I think the reason I'm most annoyed is that if I win this game now, some players are just going to chalk it up to the variant, and won't agree with my assessment that my UA is not made dramatically stronger by this turn of events. I suppose I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I'll play on either way, but I hope the resources can be fixed.

Anyway, those are all the impacts I can think of at the moment. 

So, to bring everyone up to speed on the game: 

I defogged the last couple tiles northeast of Wellington.



Not ancient ruins 

Oh well. 

Also of note in the shot, my other neighbor researched calendar, saving me 2 science! I started on archery. Going to finish all three partially researched techs in the next 4 turns and then go to bronze working to see where iron is. As previously mentioned, going to just build an archer instead of a chariot archer, and probably before my second settler because:  



Right where I want to put my 3rd city. My scout and warrior probably can't clear it out on their own. Also of note, I passed a barb brute on it's way to Wellington.  

Meanwhile:   



Three man continent more or less confirmed. I'll see who the city-state is next turn. I think Capetown or Almaty.  After that, I'll probably heal the scout before proceeding.

Finally finished defogging the land southwest of my capital: 



I would really like to settle where the scout is. I should be able to get a settler there for t29. At that point, I can also begin ranged attacks on the barb camp.  

You'll notice that brute spawned. He'll be attacking my scout on a marsh for a defense malus, but also across a river, so I should end up doing a fair bit of damage back with +40% versus barbs. 



Ichabod got an absurdly early t17 Collective Rule. Luck sack. Pindicator got his second policy in Liberty as well. I'm really wondering where Ichabod will settle, and am halfway tempted to send my scout west to be annoying in case it's too far in my direction. It's worth noting though, Ichabod's capital move puts him much farther away from me and Pin than Pin and I are from each other.  Just 10 tiles separate me and Pin's capitals. There are 14 tiles between Three Mountains and Persepolis, and between Chardonnay and Persepolis. Ichabod is now officially hemorrhaging gold.  

Meanwhile at home:  



I grew to size 5 (someone else did as well), bought the sheep, and stagnated to finish the worker this turn and then start starvation settlers. We're three turns out from Legalism, and hopefully only 3 turns out from a pantheon. Here's hoping nobody beat me to building a shrine. 

Next turn I'll post the early game wrap up. In the meantime, paging Dr. T-Hawk.

Is there an overflow cap for research? Do you know?

Loved your last write up by the way. Definitely going to use the 'stay at war with the city-state' tactic and the find barb camp with a worker trick 

I still need to figure out how I am going to do a worker steal. Wellington or Kuala Lumpur. They should both be building a worker soonish. Ichabod might be going to Wellington. KL is closer, and I want to conquer long-term, but it still might put out a quest for that barb camp.  Then again, Wellington might put out a quest for that northern camp.  Maybe I should pledge to protect it too....  

Anyway, that will be a decision to be made in the turns to come.

[T-hawk]

I don't want to tie up a horse resource for a knight later in a chariot archer

Chariot archers upgrade to knights.

Is there an overflow cap for research? Do you know?

Yes: 5 times your current beaker production. You'll only ever hit it with multiple great scientists in the endgame.

Maybe I should pledge to protect it too....

I don't know how this works in multiplayer. In single player, a pledge gets invoked when an AI declares war or demands tribute from that city-state. The AI comes to you with a dialog that asks if you want to back up your pledge (offends the AI) or not (lose influence with the city-state.) I don't know how all of that translates to MP.

[oledavy]

Chariot archers upgrade to knights.

Did not know that! Thanks

Thanks for the explanation on beaker overflow!

Pledging in MP makes them more resilient to tribute demands. Otherwise, it gives you the +5 influence, but you can't attack them for 10? turns. There is no coded diplomatic fallout like there is in SP.

[oledavy]

Between HAK not knowing how strategic resources work in Civ5 and not remembering his ancient ruin pulls....  I can't attest to his Civ4 skills, but he seems a bit behind the curve on Civ5 knowledge. Pity he's not my neighbor.

[oledavy]

Turn 20

Well, even if we aren't doing reports this turn, plenty happened. 



Scout was attacked. Dished out more damage than he took. I'm swung him west to the hill to look for Ichabod for a turn. The positioning of the brute meant it would take me three turns to get to the horse tile regardless, so I might as well get some extra info in the interim.

Ichabod got his pantheon, God-King. Looks like I'll have to wait until t25 for me. No biggie....just 6 culture and 6 faith I would have had otherwise....

I think his was a better pantheon choice than Nic. GK is not amazing, but it's active immedietly, and that counts for a lot. 

Pindicator continues to be annoying: 



I'm 90% sure he can see into Chardonnay from that hill, despite the forests in between. Even if he can't, there's still a very slim chance he could move 2 NE and nab my worker if I started pasteurizing the horse. I decided to swallow a 1 hammer loss and kept the worker in the city. 

Continuing the trend of barbs spawning in super-inconvenient spots:  




I fortified on the hill, hopefully he'll attack. I'm debating if I want to send my warrior back to Wellington and attempt a steal. I could really use the warrior at the cap, but the scout might be okay on his own. 

Still can't decide if I should steal from KL or Wellington. I would prefer the latter, but will go for whatever gets me a worker sooner. 

In the southwest:  



Almaty, it's hostile, but it spawns CKN's! Going to keep that in mind, that's way too good of a unit to pass up. 



Demogs tell me Ichabod is building a third settler. He grew to size 4 last turn, and I expect he'll stagnate and pump out settlers for awhile.

[oledavy]

I think as far as worker steals go, I'm going to probably steal from KL. The timeline for it will be around ~t35, after I settle my southwestern city and clear the barb camp out. I'm going to slip an archer or chariot archer in between settlers and use that to clear out the northern camp with my warrior. My scout will cover my worker, escort the settler, and then steal from KL. If Wellington puts out a worker I can easily steal in the interim or KL puts a quest on the nearby encampment, I may modify my plans. 

I can't pledge to protect Wellington at the moment due to negative influence from me tresspassing, but it's probably for the better that I don't for now so I can keep the steal option open.

Longer-term plan: I stay at war with KL and take another worker or two from it before eventually conquering it. This way, I avoid the hit with city-states for declaring on CS's more than once. 

The only downside of this plan is it may be awhile before I fully reveal everything off the coast to my northeast. Not that anything there short of the Great Barrier Reef could change my settling order, but I am curious what's out there and for now will have to wait.

[oledavy]

Turn 21



My scouting units cannot catch a break.

Stayed fortified on the hill, two turns of fortification + rough terrain defense bonus + Bonus vs. barbs = 



Elsewhere, Ichabod hooked up his cotton, and one of my neighbors finished mining.



I re-examined my micro, and everything works out really well. I'm going to finish this settler, 3t a chariot archer using overflow from the settler, then start another 6t settler. I need 39 beakers to finish archery and the wheel the same time I finish the settler, and am earning 40 in that time. Furthermore, I am still able to complete calendar before I need to plantation the wines. I will be 2 unhappy for 2-3 turns between settling my second city and hooking up the wines, but if I make it over that hump, I should be fine.  I'll be finishing archery this turn and posting my first tech in quite awhile. The sandbagging has been well worth the science I've saved.  

TL;DR

Build order: 5t Settler -> 3t Chariot Archer -> 6t Settler 
Research order: Archery (1) -> Wheel (4) -> Calendar (1) -> Mining (1) -> Bronze Working.

I'm now wondering what happens if my second neighbor researches calendar/mining before I finish them, and pushes the tech cost below the amount what I have already researched. Maybe we'll find out 

[oledavy]

Turn 22

Two turns in one day! That's a first.  

In the north, the siege continues: 



Given that Ichabod has access to his cotton now, I think they went the following tech paths:

Ichabod: Pottery -> AH -> Calendar -> Mining
Pindicator: Pottery -> AH -> Trapping -> ???

Adopted Legalism.

[oledavy]

Turn 23

Okay, apparently we're going to have to attack out.  



I'm guessing they weren't attacking because the odds were too poor for them. Maybe they'll attack now. A gridlock up here just isn't helping me. 

Nic is first to a second city:



That's an impressively early second settler. I'm a little surprised Ichabod hasn't settled yet, he's had the settler from collective rule for 6 turns now I think? He's either being really delayed by barbs or is shoving a city in me or Pind's face. Hopefully not the latter....