Myrran retort

[Nelphine]

Beastmen: also have better attack, better end units, and cheaper units than high elves. Can also build Colosseum and engineers, but can't build a ship yard.
Total (including your comments above): +1.5

Trolls: higher health and attack is far better than the fewer figures, until you start megabuffing (meaning warlord + tactician + adamantium + 1 or 2 common spells is not enough for the extra figures to overtake) especially on magicians. Heck, just getting magicians is huge compared to lizardmen. Can also build ships for summons and naval control.
Total (including above): +2

Dwarf: also have huge resistance and extra health.
Total: +1.5

Dark elf: special units are far better, not slightly. Race also grows faster than high elves.
Total: +2

Draconians: fire breath isn't worth that much, until you get warlord/ultra elite/buff stacking involved. (Reduce to +0.2) Tactician is only good because there is nothing better that directly affects combat. Its not a full 1 pick by itself (reduce to +0.3)
Units don't have the + to hit, and units are more expensive (-0.4)
Total: +3.5

Yes its still the best race, but not by as much as you indicated

[Seravy]

Well, ok, but that still means they need to lose half their advantages, or get a -2 value in drawbacks.

So we should decide, what role we actually want for the race? (aside from the "dragons should be OP at everything" one which we currently have :D )

Edit : yeah + To hit and forester. But none of the other races I compared to High Elves have that either so they are all that much worse, the relative advantage of draconians is the same.

[Nelphine]

I ignore forester. And all the other races have something to make up for the + to hit - for draconians its the fire breath. So by listing fire breath, you need to list the + to hit.

I'll take beastman/dwarf +HP any day over the + hit. Or the ranged attack of dark elves.

So final is only 1.5 to 2 ahead of other myrran races.

[Nelphine]

I'd say drop bowman totally - that brings AI and human to same level at around 2.5. Then you need to make a small adjustment. But it depends if you want to bring trolls and dark elves down to beastmen and dwarves, or vice versa.

Looking at this, dropping power might be too much. Perhaps move beastmen growth up, and move draconians to be the worst growth, both pop and outpost, on myrror.

Dwarves can probably stay behind, as they have the highest variance of any race Dependant on minerals in the game. Though maybe give them +1 shields to counteract all the offensive boosts of the other 4 myrran races.

[Arnuz]

Another option could be to give every race a useful unit for exploring. Substituting for example the spearman, that you use only to sacrifice in nodes for scouting basically. The explorer would be a 2 figures unit with low cost and power but with scouting and pathfinding.

This would take away the draconians' scouting advantage by distributing it.

[Seravy]

Beastmen, compared to High Elf
Extra health, +1
Quite a bit better growth, +0.5
Extra attack but no +1 To Hit no Forester, -0.5
Total +1

Troll, compared to lizardmen
Higher health and attack but fewer figures ~0
Regeneration +3 (this is a huge deal!)
Roughly similar building restrictions ~0
Not intercontinental -1
Settler efficiency and outpost growth vastly inferior -1
Amazing magicians and shaman +0.5
Total +1.5

Dwarf compared to Klackon
Much worse growth -1 (might be -2? The difference here is gigantic!)
Double minerals +1
Much better units and unit versatility (Golem, Cannon) +1
Double taxes instead of -4 unrest +0.5
Worse building restrictions (no towers) -0.5
High resistance +0.5
High health +0.5
Total +1 to +2

Dark Elf compared to High Elf
Double power production +0.5
Special units significantly better +1
Better growth but amount insignificant +0.1
All basic units can shoot +0.4
No +1 To Hit -0.5
Somewhat high resistance +0.25
Total +1.75

Draconian compared to High Elf
Intercontinental +1
Can do sprite tactic with bowmen +1 (Human only)
Can fly in combat +1
Fire Breath +0.5
Extra armor +0.5
Better growth +0.5
Draconian units cost more -0.5 (huh, I didn't realize we already nerfed them this way!)
No +1 To hit -0.5
No mechanician guild -0.1
Total : +2.4 (+1)


Well that actually isn't so bad. Take away the armor and they are about right. Or we can cut their growth down to slow. Or remove the power. I prefer the armor as the others would hit the AI much harder and we don't want to overdo it.

Also, looking at it this way, beastmen are on the weak side? idk. Maybe get a bit more growth? We don't have a fast races on Myrror yet...albeit if they grow too fast, that defeats the purpose of dark elves making double power - if you can get double people you have the same amount.

[Nelphine]

Well, you know how I feel about the armor. Sprites are bad because they're glass cannons which makes them extreme use units. Either the enemy can't hit them, or they suck. I don't want to see the entire draconian race go the same way, which is why I firmly think they should keep the armor.

[Seravy]

About draconian bowmen, maybe they should cost 50? They fill roughly the same role as horsebowmen except instead of being fast, they fly. They hit harder and have more ammo though.

[Nelphine]

Realistically horsebowman are still borderline op, but the rest of nomads have some problens (no granary/farmers market is huge, and none of their top end units are particularly amazing, unless you need fling armor piercing for some reason).
You've said yourself, shaman still have some of the same role - and the AI is generally better with magic attacks anyway. Why do they need 2 units that cover that role?

[Arnuz]

Both beastmen and dark elves are on the weak side if you ask me. Dwarves+alchemy makes much more power than dark elves ever could.