RB Pitboss #3 [SPOILERS]- Suryavarman II of England

[Cyneheard]

Oh, from talking to Krill (mostly about confirming a meeting with Babylon), we realized that France ISN'T IN SLAVERY.

That qualifies under "Too Dumb To Live". Sorry, France, when you read this, but not having the ability to whip on T70 is pure .

[haphazard1]

Sorry for the minimal comments, guys. Very busy at work right now, and that is likely to continue for a while. I will try to keep commenting at least a little, but have not had time to read the posted chats in detail.

France with copper...this is not unexpected about this time, right? Not good news, certainly, but not unexpected.

Gulliver appears to have found the majority of the world's water.

Conan and "lots" of barbarians? Is there more than one barb unit on that tile? We would get the benefit of two more turns of healing if the barb heads directly for Conan, that should be worth 20% to get him to 3.1/4.0. If there is only one warrior, then I think we can stand and fight and hopefully get the fifth XP. We could then use the promo to continue healing. (Need to check the odds for 2.0 vs 3.1, but should be pretty solidly in our favor.)

Yes, let's get an NAP signed with HRE if they will agree. I definitely do not trust them, and do not think they should get much from France unless they contribute significantly to the fight against Paris. We are doing all the work against Lyons, what are they doing?

Where are our EP going at the moment? I would like to have HRE's graphs, so we can keep an eye on their military builds and such.

[haphazard1]

Cross-posted with Cyneheard again.

Math, Masonry, and soon Mono. Things are looking up.

France not in slavery? What else could you be running at this point? Too early for Caste or Serfdom, and they have to have BW to hook the copper. Er, huh?

I suppose they could have gotten BW recently and were waiting on a settler to finish or something...maybe?

Anyway, copper hooked up. 35 hammers for an axe or spear, the copper and city center give them 5 hpt. So 7 turns, maybe 5 if they also work a 2h tile. (Or are they settled on the plains hill? That would be 6 hpt from copper and CC.) We might still face one spear. Let's keep an eye on the game log and F4 info screen, just in case they revolt.

[antisocialmunky]

Ugh... This would make me suspicious but France is not Zhuge Liang and we are not Sima Yi...

Seriously?!?

[Cyneheard]

According to my C&D, they finished BW on T39. Orleans was founded T49, so during that time, they should've revolted. Especially if we see a GNP of "1", then we'd know that someone's revolted.

Micro @ AF:
Size 5 @ T70.
We'll always work the horses and the pig tile. Currently, 2 cottages + plains hill (9hpt, 3fpt. 15/30 food right now.)
This turn and T71, work a chariot.
Chops will come in:
T72, 75, 76, 2x on T80. So we'll also get a road segment out of Bashful.
T71: Move Bashful onto forest.
T72: Begin an HA. 39/50. (24/30 food after end of turn). Grumpy finishes chop. Bashful roads & cancels.
T73: Switch from HA to stable. Switch from Plains hill to wheat. 6/50. Grow to size 6 (Happy cap's 5)
T74: 2-pop whip stable. Work Horses + Pigs + 2 cottages. Size 4, whip clock starts (through T84). 71/50.
T75: Bashful finishes chop. Switch from 2 cottages to 1 cottage + Plains Hill mine. HA #1 completes 99/50 (39 previous + 21 overflow + 30 chop + 9 worked hammers).
T76: Bashful finishes road. Grumpy finishes his chop. HA #2 completes (49 overflow + 30 chop + 9 worked) 88/50.
T77: HA #3 @ 47/50. We'll be at 5 pop, with 1 unhappy.
T78: Finish HA #3 56/50.
T79: Finish Chariot: 18 + 6 overflow + 9 worked for 33/30.
T80: Finish HA #4. I think we can kill France fairly easily with that, our chariots, and support from HRE.

So, 5XP HAs on T75, 76, 78, and 80. 5XP Chariot T79 (Sentry or Medic I: I think he should be Medic I, and join the France Invasion Party).

[Cyneheard]

Great Scientist:

London needs to build at least 1 worker, probably 2. Without whipping (and since we're working grass hill mines on a river, I'd rather not, but we could), we get 2 workers built T74 and T79 (EOT), while growing to size 6 on T75 (probably starting an archer?). Once we revolt to HR, likely T81, London could start 2 scientists for a GSci T82-T98. He could then bulb Philo if it's still available, or we can do something else with him; I still don't think we want an Academy.

It'll take 9 worker turns (1 to move, 4 to chop, 4 to mine) to get the silver online.

Krill is planning on bulbing COL (T85) and Theology. That gets him 4 religions (not much we can do about that; for now he's on our side). Buddhism's with the Aztec. Someone is going to be desperate for a religion...and I see no reason not to make that us. We could save a turn on the lightbulb by putting 1 scientist turn in over the next 10 turns.

The chat with India was short; they're hopeful they can kill Yaz next turn. No peace deal, Yaz is going down. Yaz might be finishing Alpha this turn, but if they can kill him before he offers the trades to everyone...

[Cyneheard]

I do like talking to Portugal. They give all sorts of information. I think I logged in to tell them about the city settlement of Yaz.

I noticed via Civstats that Yaz had settled a city, so I informed them of this. It seems that someone (France) leaked to Rome that Portugal was coming for them. Portugal has learned a thing called "operational security." Fortunately, they can learn this lesson for all of us.

Yaz's second city is safe, it seems. If they can't find it, they can't destroy it.

Also, Portugal and India are inseparable. Why else would you give them a settler?

On T75, we can send them some screenshots, like the one we sent to HRE and Krill about our assault route, a screenshot of Lyons' forces, and then the destroyed city.

me: well, according to civstats, Yaz resettled a city
willemofo: ahh thanks for letting me know wasn't watching
me: we finally met India
willemofo: ahh cool. india and us are apparently the CAN's military arm. the fin/cre civ and the ind one
me: on that side of the world
willemofo: heh yeah. i hear you guys have some pretty cool plans in the works
me: we do. one of our cities is going to build a stable + 4 HAs and 1 chariot by T80.
willemofo: ouch
me: Uruk is the city name [OOC: Of Yaz's city]
willemofo: wait a second, I don't remember that name from my English history. i need to log in again and see if that second city of yaz's gave him copper. who have you got left to meet btw?
me: Rome and Aztec. Sumeria has Uruk, is their new one. oh, head SE towards London with your warrior. there's roads there, and that's the directions I gave Mali.
willemofo: ahh right
willemofo: i thught you were saying your stable + 4 HA city was called uruk. ok thanks. there's a jungle next to our warrior, we were going to head to that for the movement bonus
me: right. ok, so head there, then S
willemofo: right
me: I don't know the position of their chariot but we'll try to have you meet near Gibraltar
willemofo: ok, thanks
me: they know where you'll be. so, if they're close enough it'll be T72 or 73 which is good since they're going for Calendar and kinda need Sailing for it. can you see his [Yaz] city?
willemofo: right ok. sumeria's? no
me: yeah. darn.
willemofo: it isn't where i was hoping it would be. I think he must have settled north of his capital for horses instead
me: well, his capital will still burn. if I were him, settling ON the horses would be a high priority
willemofo: yeah, we were hoping he was about to settle on the copper. because I would have been able to hit it immediately
me: instead, though, more to hit Rome
willemofo: heh, yeah. loose lips sinks ships!
me: since you have so many ships on this map
willemofo: yes carthage and I hope to combine our naval superiority. i think they saw a lake
me: a navigable one??? data suggests that this map is 64x64 and therefore has 49 lake tiles
willemofo: probably not navigable
me: we've seen quite a few small lakes 1-5 tiles
willemofo: we just found our 1st 1 tile sized lake, but it's about 20SE of our capital
me: rome has 1 water tile in their capital's BFC
willemofo: ahh right
me: Byzantium and the Ottomans have 1 each in their inner 9
willemofo: hope it doesn't end up blocking us
me: Rome's is 2t from their capital, probably not. since you're coming from 4 tiles out, or 5?
willemofo: also i can see that yaz didn't settle horses or at least on them
me: huh
willemofo: because horses would show up in trade if he had, it's on a river
me: probably just a "I can survive here...I can survive here...I can survive here..." plant
willemofo: in other news, I no longer feel sorry for France
me: neither do we. T70, and not in slavery.
willemofo: they blabbed to Rome, for some stupid reason I told them. wait, france is also still in tribalism? jeez
me: yes
willemofo: so is sumeria. wow
me: how did they do that? Blabbed to Rome? do tell.
willemofo: yeah, they have contact
me: I knew they had contact
willemofo: well I was chatting to france. and for some reason when they asked why we were whipping I said rome, gah
me: oops
willemofo: i know it was them, because I trust completely everyone else I've told
me: I don't even have contact
willemofo: and rome only just found out shortly after telling france, so silly
me: France clearly knows that they're in trouble
willemofo: i put so much work into making rome feel safe
me: well, it's only 2t of warning
willemofo: enough if they get hunting
me: true. does Rome have iron? or just copper?
willemofo: they don't iron connected but they do have copper and have it for quite a while. they also have iw, got it on t68
me: you'd told us about IW. I still can't believe that Exploit didn't put himself into slavery
willemofo: yeah, or at least settle for a strategic resource of some description. i mean he knew we were coming for 20 turns or more
me: do you think Rome knows which city you're targeting?
willemofo: yeah they would know
me: 0 CANT teams have 4 cities. 5 CAN teams do.
willemofo: heh
me: you, me, India, Carthage, Ottomans. 3 Cre civs, 1 Henge civ, and then Carthage.
willemofo: well we had another settler and were going to settle next turn but we completely scuttled india's peace with sumeria and they were going to get a settler from them in 5 turns so we decided to give india our settler
me: wow
willemofo: saves going broke i guess
me: 5th city isn't too expensive. it's the 3rd and 6th that cost a lot
willemofo: heh they had a peace deal diplo screen open in game with everything decided
me: and you said "But No Hunting"
willemofo: and yaz and I wouldn't negotiate on gifting hunting around heh yeah. apparently that's his trigger
me: He's trying to save CANT from getting steamrolled. you know, that should've clued him in that you were going for someone
willemofo: heh, probably, but I'm pretty sure still it was france
me: wouldn't surprise me. again, I'm trying to avoid speaking to them until DDay
willemofo: some teams in this game just really don't want strong allies, and are always looking for a chance to backstab or get something out of it
me: this is too large a game to do that
willemofo: you need to work together with allies, and then maybe when you're all in the final 3
me: A freelancer in a 5p or 6p game? Sure.
willemofo: then think about how you're going to win. rome and france are both like that
me: A backstab needs to be a good one
willemofo: so, if you're in the final 3 with us, I guess I just gave away our gameplan
me: heh. you make it sound like that isn't everyone's game plan except for those who've already decided to be a shady and ride the coattails throughout the game of someone stronger
willemofo: speaking of riding coattails all these techs we've been given we haven't been able to do any research ourselves for quite a while. neither has india. i hope people can be understanding
me: I don't mind, as long as you get us something good. Monarchy will be in around T80 +/- 1t, depending on exact commerce yields, expenses, etc.
willemofo: once babylon gets currency
me: it'll be a lot easier for all that
willemofo: they will make such a great reseearcher
me: aye
willemofo: not sure who else would be dedicated researcher
me: Carthage has crazy bpt ability with their land
willemofo: basically the phi civs were babs, korea, france and egypt
me: Egypt is going to be a funder. 2 religions begs for focusing on shrines
willemofo: yeah
me: and gold buildings
willemofo: and he could bulb the other shortly as well if he starts working priests with obelisks
me: if you can spend time working on infrastructure you'll be a good researcher
willemofo: yeah, we're forcusing on building and defending, but rome attack now looks to be fairly doomed so we'll have to speak to hre and discuss what we can expect
me: I don't know enough about the Ottoman situation to know if they'd be a good researcher
willemofo: ahh right
me: with the costs in this game 2 funders to 1 researcher is probably closer to the truth and just have 1 funder trickle in something low priority
willemofo: does anyone in the north have any military plans post france?
me: not that I'm aware of but destroying France will take until T85-90
willemofo: so do you declare t80 with has? or t85? with others?
me: Actually, the first strike is chariots only. it'll be sooner than T80
willemofo: is that just you? or does that include ottos and egypt as well?
me: HRE borders France, not Ottomans. and Egypt's going to send some units
willemofo: yeah, ottos are a fair way away, but they've been copied into all discussion
me: that was partially because they have contact
willemofo: so i thought they had some part to play we weren't aware of. yeah, I think I might have to speak to hre about that if our attack vs rome is unsuccessful but they really hate france so i doubt I'm going to convince them otherwise
me: they really do.
willemofo: well france's first contact with them was all threats I think
me: yeah
willemofo: anyone running the C&D numbers on france?
me: "teammodm: we stumbled on them, they immediately asked for a 20turn nap. we took that as a sign of weakness and our diplomatic response took account of that perceived weakness
me: oh. Bad assumption on NAPs being a sign of weakness
teammodm: in the end it was quickly resolved and all is well. unless you have heard to the contrary
me: I hadn't heard to the contrary
but we hadn't gotten much of the story
something about you guys threatening a settler?
teammodm: we explained the 'choke' theory to them."
[OOC: Re: C&D numbers] not fully. They haven't gained a pop point
willemofo: lol, nice start
me: for some time. T64: Founded Lyons, city #3. T70, copper is online at Lyons. so, 1 worker
willemofo: heh every new pop point is ruthlessly sacrificed and their corpses used either as bulding material
me: therefore, it seems they have a size 5 Paris and 2 size 1s? they're not in slavery
willemofo: ahh that's me I was talking about. we gain pop points regularly as our food is awesome it just doesn't last long
me: how much whip anger?
willemofo: lol 3 in our cap now that was last there for a while
me: well, we'll have Monarchy for you in 9-11t
willemofo: 35 turn whip anger
me: that is painful
willemofo: ok that'd be awesome. i'll send you screenshots when rome war starts if you're interested
me: oh, we'd love it and we'll send you the plan
willemofo: originally was going to be 7 chariots, but we had to send one north to exploit
me: and battlefront the turn we strike
willemofo: india ran the numbers on rome power for us. 4 wars, axe, 2 barracks. think they just built a second axe last turn
me: good thing axes and spears don't look alike on the graphs
willemofo: yeah. so i think we can expect 4 wars, 3 axe when we declare or 4 wars, 2 axe and a spear
me: if it's the first
willemofo: most of those warriors are out and about though
me: you're fine. 90% odds well, maybe less if high culture ~80%
willemofo: axe in capital is 20%c2, 40% culture, 25% fortify
me: combat 2???
willemofo: 1.85x5. they have barracks
me: oh, agg. forgot. so used to thinking my neck of the woods
willemofo: 9.25 vs 8
me: actually, 4 vs. 5*0.85. all modifiers except Combat X go on the defender
willemofo: wait, chariot bonus affects defender? ahh didn't know that. that's why combat rocks i guess
me: so it's 4 vs. 4.25. A praetorian should never take cover unless fighting longbows
willemofo: yeah
me: however, 4 vs. 4.25 is still 63% odds for the defender
willemofo: hmm, so 2 chariots per axe. going to be close then no matter what
me: assuming fully fortified
willemofo: ahh right, axe they build last turn couldn't be fully fortified
me: 3 if unfortified. +0.25/turn
willemofo: it'll be 20%
me: so 50/50 it'll be tight
willemofo: not sure what we should do in homefront, we still have krill's horses
but seems a waste to try to build any more chariots
me: the sooner he gets them back the sooner he can hit France, and the easier it'll be for HRE to assist
willemofo: yeah, can only cancel with a DoW
me: up to you and him
willemofo: he didn't think it was worth it
me: Was it a trade? or a direct gift?
willemofo: yeah, for sheep
me: but it still couldn't be canceled. he thought it could be
willemofo: so we could cancel with a dow after t69. wait trades can be canceled after 5 turns with a dow, gifts after 10 right? that's how I thought it worked?
me: I don't know. a gift enforces 10t of peace
willemofo: yeah a trade 5 i think
me: since they folded that into demands. don't know, easiest way to test is to roll up a BUG game since it tells you those things
willemofo: ahh i see, never downloaded BUG. so your first strike is how many chariots?
me: 5. theoretically, they might have 1 spear and assorted other units but without slavery and copper just going up
willemofo: can we do the snake pick again? i want to choose zulu. reload!
me: heh. we'd have just swapped to Maya while still taking Sury. Holkans + Horses = safety
willemofo: we also would have voted restricted leaders. shaka + zulu
me: oh, very evil
willemofo: it'll be a chariot bloodbath in any case
me: aye
willemofo: possibly our blood if there are spears
me: I think yours is going to be a tougher road
willemofo: ok speak to you later then

[haphazard1]

So Yaz got a second city (how? gifted settler?), and will survive long enough to trade Alpha to the CANT coalition. Not good for us CAN folks, but not much to be done about it.

It would have to be close to Yaz' capital, unless he had a settler out turns ago and has been walking somewhere. Even then it is likely to be fairly close.

[antisocialmunky]

Oh poop.



If they haven't met Byzantium, we can direct them south to the warrior. This would be pretty convenient.



Also, #1 in the two most important stats.

Also, our empire looks exactly like a heart.

Also, Mali settled in the predicted area.

Also, Conan is next to a warrior @2.7 on the hill .

[antisocialmunky]

Been chatting with the other teams.

France sent me this:



Chatlogs when we're done.

Just some random chatting with Mali(they were mostly just trying to inform us of their city) Should have told them it slots in with our dotmap just fine.

Capac: hiya
me: hi
saw the new city
Capac: that's what i wanted to mention
that and we've started to trade with CAN
and we can see that CANT have been trading techs
sumeria has IW
so it's a fair bet that they've traded hunting around
me: So Yaz got Alpha huh...
Capac: i think bison pass/burger
was 3 tiles from his cap
and I guess he had enough commerce to complete
me: oh well
We are still bigger and more powerful
Capac: Portugal will be pissed tho
as it was pretty obvious they're planning a chariot rush
against rome
me: yeah
did you hear what happened?
they think that France dropped that they were whipping out an army to Rome.
someone did but htye think its France
Capac: Not sure, but the rush plan was really obvious
as it is the best way to deal with agg rome
me: yeah, I don't blame them
We were going to commit to one
when we saw purple borders of babylon and thought it might be Rome
Capac: and with india taking down sumeria
that pretty much sealed it that rome was the intended target
Sent at 9:49 AM on Friday
Capac: there was no hint of a tip off in heracles chat
will you get Alpha this turn then?
me: rance
er
cntrl + f fail
Capac: eh?
me: "willemofo: well I was chatting to france
9:26 PM and for some reason when they asked why we were whipping I said rome
gah
me: oops
willemofo: i know it was them, because I trust completely everyone else I've told
me: I don't even have contact
willemofo: and rome only just found out shortly after telling france
so silly
me: France clearly knows that they're in trouble"
was trying to do a search
Capac: no reference to a tip off from france
me: Well it doesn't really matter
By the way, do you have any intel of the area NW of your lands?
we've are hitting lots of barbs
Capac: would have had more but for keef's demise
so just your border and Carthage's
Sent at 9:54 AM on Friday
Capac: and bording wasn't settled for the pigs
seems they're saving them for another city
probably on another plains hill
the lucky scamps
me: :-\
is your land really that food poor?
Capac: food special poor
lots of FPs
me: that's good enough I guess
like how commerce special poor we are
though we had one city site that grabbed 21 river tiles
I have never seen that before
Sent at 9:57 AM on Friday
Capac: Needless to say, we'd kill for that site
me: we'd kill for a metal
that's not a jungled silver
sheesh
Capac: we don't have any either
me: oh?
Capac: just a jungle dyes
me: wait
you don't have a jungled silver?
Capac: oh yeah
no other precious metal
at least not local
me: okay
Capac: a jungle gems towards maya
(this is from memeory)
me: We'd kill for a Jungled gems...
Capac: we might have to kill maya for it
me: Aren't they the 'anti-block' team?
Sent at 10:01 AM on Friday
me: We wouldn't be opposed to helping you guys when we are done with our problems
afterall I think its been agreed that we trust you and Babylon more than our northern neighbors
Sent at 10:07 AM on Friday
Capac: sounds good
we traded medi for hunting with carthage
so we've now crossed the rubicon
me: possibly
Capac: Maya were chatting to krill last i heard
Sent at 10:10 AM on Friday
me: I'm not sure what Krill is up to
Sent at 10:11 AM on Friday
me: I think we'll be sticking with oyu guys if there is a split, we aren't too friendly with HRE beyond what is needed. I think also Krill has some plans with Carthage and maybe us
nothing concrete though
with any other members though
Sent at 10:15 AM on Friday
Capac: we felt that you, us and babs could forma solid defensive triangle
so we'd hope to continue down that path
did you hear about HRE's lost settler?
me: Lion
Lions are only 9000 in this game...
*over
Sent at 10:18 AM on Friday
Capac: i best get back to work
bye for now
me: cya
Sent at 10:21 AM on Friday

I have done just the minimum amount of moving of units. Conan, I'm not sure. He's at 2.7 and next to a warrior so he'll have to move somewhere. Just where though?