The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[kjn]

Thanks m_h!

The city of Lakshmi claimed 9 tiles, ie it is inland. It also puts CFC as the new rival best in land, at 96 tiles.

There has been some combat as well. Both the rival best and rival total in power fell with 12000. That's a loss of either 2 axes (6000 each) or 3 spears and chariots (4000 each) for the Germans.

[kjn]

I have another small programming task that might prove helpful to our C&D efforts.

The Aptmod web site can produce a lot of graphs, and it uses the Googleapis for charts to do so. Here's an example

http://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=lc...5h7b9U.O__

.

(I couldn't link to the actual chart for some reason from within the forum software.)

Now, I'd like a script that reverse engineers those query strings to something simpler to use, eg a CSV table.

Possible uses:

Getting the raw GNP, production, food, et c values for the teams we have graphs on without having to bother with placing a grid onto the graphs.

Getting a more "true" GNP value by removing the culture from the GNP.

Better culture tracking.

[waterbat]

ok, so I was able to reverse engineer the google chart API pretty easily and put it into a CSV format.

Try:

http://cassidyweb.com/isdg

You hvae to paste in the google chart URL into that page, and it will output the series label and series data points in a CSV file.

The problem you'll have with these numbers is that they are scaled to fit the google chart format limitations.

for example, here are the results of the current APTMod Score Graph:

Code:

RealmsBeyond,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,425,425,425,425,425,425,460,460,460,514,514,602,709,709,709,709,850,886,886,992,992,992,992,992,992,1045,1045,1081,1081,1116,1170,1276,1276,1276,1382,1382,1382,1489,1524,1524,1577,1577,1719,1719,1719,1950,2322,2304,2304,2393,2393,2499,2535,2623,2659,2712,2747,2712,2676,2889,2942,2978,3315,3403,3403,3492,3705,3705,3793,3722,3953,4095,4095,
WPC,0,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,460,460,460,460,460,460,460,460,460,460,460,460,549,655,655,655,709,850,850,850,992,992,992,992,992,992,992,992,992,992,992,1081,1081,1081,1081,1187,1187,1187,1223,1276,1382,1382,1382,1382,1489,1524,1524,1524,1630,1630,1630,1808,1843,1843,1755,1755,1755,1914,1914,1950,2003,2003,2145,2145,2145,2180,2180,2322,2322,2322,2322,2375,2481,
JerryDemmings,0,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,425,425,425,425,425,425,425,425,460,460,567,567,655,709,709,709,709,850,957,957,992,992,1045,1045,1045,1045,1081,1081,1081,1116,1116,1116,1116,1152,1152,1187,1152,1152,1187,1187,1276,1311,1365,1506,1595,1560,1506,1506,1560,1595,1560,1595,1595,1506,1506,1684,1772,1879,1914,1790,1825,1879,1967,1985,1932,2074,2074,2020,2074,2020,2020,2145,2286,
CFC,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,319,425,425,425,425,425,425,425,425,460,460,673,673,726,726,726,886,886,939,939,939,939,1045,1045,1045,1045,1081,1081,1081,1081,1081,1081,1081,1081,1187,1223,1223,1223,1223,1223,1223,1223,1311,1418,1418,1418,1506,1506,1666,1666,1577,1613,1630,1790,1825,1879,1914,1914,1825,1914,2074,2304,2410,2499,2552,2659,2694,2659,2659,2747,2783,2871,2907,
Minimum,301,301,301,301,301,301,301,301,301,301,301,407,407,407,407,407,407,407,443,443,531,531,531,531,638,780,780,780,780,780,797,797,797,833,904,904,904,904,904,957,957,992,992,992,1045,1045,1045,1116,1116,1116,1223,1152,1152,1187,1152,1152,1152,1329,1329,1489,1489,1489,1489,1595,1630,1630,1684,1684,1684,1684,1932,1932,1914,2020,2056,2003,2056,2003,2003,2127,2269,,
Max,336,336,336,336,336,336,336,336,478,478,478,478,478,478,478,478,478,585,585,691,691,744,815,815,904,904,975,1010,1010,1010,1063,1063,1063,1063,1099,1170,1170,1205,1205,1205,1205,1205,1347,1400,1400,1471,1542,1542,1595,1595,1595,1737,1790,1790,1896,1967,1967,2020,2020,2145,2180,2215,2251,2251,2446,2605,2676,2783,2889,2942,3120,3226,3226,3332,3350,3350,3474,3563,3740,3651,3651,,

So - we have the highest score (242), and we max out the graph ( valid values: 0-4095). The scaling is also present on the low end! so... WPC and the Germans both have values of 0 for t1, when we know that everyone started the game with 11.

Fortunately, this is passed in the chxr variable: chxr=1%2C11%2C242

so I can work this out with math - to get closer to the actual values. There does seem to be some weirdness in the min and max though - for example, we all had scores of 29 at t1, but working out the math:

also - the timing of when the samples were taken is hard to nail down.

Here is T1:

RB: value 319 = 319 / 4095 * (242 - 11) + 11 = 28.995 (yay!)
Min: value 301 = 27.979
Max value 336 = 29.954

but all score values at the time were 29.

looking at turn 79 (max and minimum values missing for most recent turn):
on t80, After we founded our city, but no other teams had played, score distribution was:
(im thinking our score was 240 when sulla logged into play)

240 RB
221
216
199
195
173 CFC
145 WPC
141
132 JD

the aptmod shows values of t79 as:
RB: 3953 = 234
Germans: 2020 = 125
WPC: 2322 = 142
CFC: 2783 = 168
Min: 2127 = 131
Max: 3651 = 217

Not sure why the differences... if these were SoT values (instead of EoT), you'd expect the first column for everyone to be 0 (resulting in an 11 score)

Interesting - the numbers for RB,WPC, and CFC above agree with the screenshots that Sulla took towards the beginning of t79

so - questions about exact timing and accuracy of min-max.

I'll apply the scaling to that page shortly.

[waterbat]

Added the scaled results- and they looks sweet. If i didnt uncover the small matters of timing they'd look *really* sweet. Also a pattern was confirmed for max and min:

Min = minimum - 1, max = maximum + 1. The APT mod might have to do this to make sure that lines don't clobber each other in google charts. That is why at the beginning of the game, max = 30, min = 28 when all scores were 29.

here are the scaled score results:

Code:

RealmsBeyond,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,35,35,35,35,35,35,37,37,37,40,40,45,51,51,51,51,59,61,61,67,67,67,67,67,67,70,70,72,72,74,77,83,83,83,89,89,89,95,97,97,100,100,108,108,108,121,142,141,141,146,146,152,154,159,161,164,166,164,162,174,177,179,198,203,203,208,220,220,225,221,234,242,242,
WPC,11,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,37,37,37,37,37,37,37,37,37,37,37,37,42,48,48,48,51,59,59,59,67,67,67,67,67,67,67,67,67,67,67,72,72,72,72,78,78,78,80,83,89,89,89,89,95,97,97,97,103,103,103,113,115,115,110,110,110,119,119,121,124,124,132,132,132,134,134,142,142,142,142,145,151,
JerryDemmings,11,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,35,35,35,35,35,35,35,35,37,37,43,43,48,51,51,51,51,59,65,65,67,67,70,70,70,70,72,72,72,74,74,74,74,76,76,78,76,76,78,78,83,85,88,96,101,99,96,96,99,101,99,101,101,96,96,106,111,117,119,112,114,117,122,123,120,128,128,125,128,125,125,132,140,
CFC,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,29,35,35,35,35,35,35,35,35,37,37,49,49,52,52,52,61,61,64,64,64,64,70,70,70,70,72,72,72,72,72,72,72,72,78,80,80,80,80,80,80,80,85,91,91,91,96,96,105,105,100,102,103,112,114,117,119,119,114,119,128,141,147,152,155,161,163,161,161,166,168,173,175,
Minimum,28,28,28,28,28,28,28,28,28,28,28,34,34,34,34,34,34,34,36,36,41,41,41,41,47,55,55,55,55,55,56,56,56,58,62,62,62,62,62,65,65,67,67,67,70,70,70,74,74,74,80,76,76,78,76,76,76,86,86,95,95,95,95,101,103,103,106,106,106,106,120,120,119,125,127,124,127,124,124,131,139,,
Max,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,38,38,38,38,38,38,38,38,38,44,44,50,50,53,57,57,62,62,66,68,68,68,71,71,71,71,73,77,77,79,79,79,79,79,87,90,90,94,98,98,101,101,101,109,112,112,118,122,122,125,125,132,134,136,138,138,149,158,162,168,174,177,187,193,193,199,200,200,207,212,222,217,217,,

[waterbat]

power results (did WPC really lose 30,000 power last turn??)

Code:

RealmsBeyond,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,8,8,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,12,12,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,15,15,15,18,26,26,26,28,28,28,28,28,28,29,29,29,29,29,33,34,33,33,34,40,40,40,41,42,42,49,48,47,59,65,66,68,68,68,69,79,85,86,85,87,89,94,
WPC,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,4,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,9,9,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,15,15,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,18,18,18,18,26,26,26,28,35,35,35,35,41,45,48,48,54,60,60,60,67,73,73,72,72,78,79,85,91,98,96,95,98,93,94,94,102,105,93,105,111,81,
JerryDemmings,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,7,7,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,13,13,14,16,14,14,14,14,15,17,19,19,19,19,19,26,26,27,26,26,29,29,29,31,34,34,35,37,37,38,41,41,42,47,47,48,46,47,48,50,50,49,58,66,77,89,85,105,99,104,115,128,126,134,130,
CFC,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,11,11,11,11,11,12,12,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,25,25,25,25,27,27,27,27,28,30,30,30,30,30,33,35,34,34,33,34,32,35,35,35,34,41,42,43,43,44,50,50,51,56,56,55,56,57,63,
Minimum,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,7,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,13,13,13,13,14,14,14,14,14,14,16,16,17,17,19,20,20,20,20,20,22,22,24,24,27,29,29,29,29,29,33,33,33,34,34,34,33,33,37,37,38,38,39,40,40,40,40,,
Max,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,12,12,12,12,12,14,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,18,18,18,20,20,20,20,20,20,23,23,27,27,28,27,27,30,36,36,36,36,42,46,49,49,55,61,61,61,68,74,74,73,73,79,80,86,92,99,97,96,99,94,106,100,105,116,129,127,135,131,,

[waterbat]

gold results:

don't ask me about -0 instead of 0

this graph sheds some light on the timing of min-max values. Here are the last 5 entries for CFC (max gold holder) and Max
CFC: 104,137,170,205,170,
Max: 138,171,206,171, ,

the max and min, must be sampled at the turn roll and applied to the last turn. so t78 shows 171 as the max gold, when CFC's t78 entry shows 137. CFC clicks to 170 for its t79 entry.
This could just be a bug - and the APT mod is off by 1 turn when submitting max and min <shrug>

Code:

RealmsBeyond,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,15,33,30,27,24,21,18,15,12,9,6,3,3,28,20,12,4,39,31,23,15,7,38,31,21,10,47,65,53,41,29,28,16,63,47,47,24,67,39,11,11,56,99,67,37,97,158,
WPC,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,13,26,23,20,17,14,11,8,5,4,3,2,1,3,5,7,25,49,49,64,78,81,84,85,94,108,115,121,125,128,142,146,147,147,146,66,65,63,63,62,58,
JerryDemmings,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,11,9,7,5,16,14,12,10,8,5,8,5,2,14,26,36,45,38,31,24,16,7,-0,7,8,8,14,18,21,34,47,38,20,10,20,31,21,34,48,59,66,72,73,81,88,97,106,34,37,44,50,56,
CFC,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,-0,12,10,8,6,4,2,-0,-0,19,17,15,13,11,9,7,5,-0,22,15,87,80,73,66,59,50,41,30,41,58,45,32,19,7,6,31,57,36,15,4,38,70,104,137,170,205,170,
Minimum,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,1,-1,-1,10,4,-0,10,7,4,-0,1,-1,-0,2,4,2,-0,-1,2,-0,2,19,9,16,18,6,10,3,1,-0,21,16,8,2,2,1,3,-1,-1,-1,6,,
Max,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,10,7,12,10,10,13,17,15,19,24,22,28,25,22,27,38,35,37,46,39,32,25,37,30,28,33,24,88,81,74,97,128,160,192,177,162,147,132,117,116,122,126,129,143,147,148,148,149,149,149,138,171,206,171,,

Interesting to see here that CFC was able to stockpile 33 and 35 gpt the past few turns (presumably at 0% science). Our last 2 turns (60gpt and 61gpt)

that's huge!

[waterbat]

culture
we're about to be #1 in accumulated culture:

Code:

RealmsBeyond,-0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50,52,54,56,58,60,62,64,66,68,70,72,74,76,78,80,82,84,86,88,90,92,92,94,96,98,105,112,119,127,136,155,174,193,213,233,253,273,293,313,333,353,373,393,413,413,434,456,478,502,526,550,574,598,622,647,673,
WPC,-0,-0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50,52,54,56,58,60,62,64,66,68,70,72,74,76,78,80,82,84,86,88,90,92,94,96,98,100,102,104,106,108,110,112,114,114,116,118,120,122,124,126,128,130,132,134,136,138,141,144,148,153,158,163,168,173,178,183,
JerryDemmings,-0,-0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50,52,54,56,58,60,62,64,66,68,70,72,74,76,78,80,82,84,86,88,90,92,94,96,98,100,102,104,106,108,114,122,130,138,146,156,166,176,186,196,206,216,226,236,246,256,268,280,292,304,316,328,340,352,364,376,
CFC,-0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50,52,54,56,58,60,62,64,66,68,70,72,74,76,78,80,82,84,86,88,90,92,94,96,98,100,102,104,106,108,110,112,114,116,118,120,122,124,126,128,130,132,134,136,143,151,159,167,175,183,191,199,208,217,226,235,244,
Minimum,-1,1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,27,29,31,33,35,37,39,41,43,45,47,49,51,53,55,57,59,61,63,65,67,69,71,73,75,77,79,81,83,85,87,89,91,93,95,97,99,101,103,105,107,109,111,113,113,115,117,119,121,123,125,127,129,131,133,135,137,139,143,147,151,155,159,163,167,171,175,,
Max,5,9,13,17,21,25,29,33,37,41,45,49,53,57,61,65,69,73,77,81,85,89,93,97,101,105,109,115,121,127,133,139,145,151,157,163,169,175,181,187,193,199,205,213,221,229,237,245,245,255,265,275,285,295,305,315,325,335,345,355,365,375,385,397,411,425,439,453,467,481,497,515,533,551,551,569,587,605,625,645,665,,

[kjn]

Excellent work, Waterbat! I knew it would be relatively straightforward, but it was far too long since I did any programming. And it seems you hit a few snags anyway.

Yeah, I could've told you from the start that the shown max and min values seemed to be offset relative the real max and min values. They also have one less value than those for the teams.

I haven't seen any power drop for WPC - someone should log in and get the graph, if the mod allows it, as well as the demos screen and the F4 war weariness values. But I have a feeling that the graphs shown for the teams are updated "in real time", ie straight from the demographics screen.

[waterbat]

looks like timing during turn might be irregular:

quote from dev on the update stats buttons that the Leader gets (only Lord Parkin for us):

Yes, it visible in all tabs. The stats are updated in each new turn... or when you ask for it with this botton. Its only visible for the leader and not for the co-leaders. Normally you do not need to update stats but if for example theres had been a huge battle and you cant to most recent data, then you can ask for update stadistics and dont wait for the end of the turn.

[Sullla]

Interesting to see here that CFC was able to stockpile 33 and 35 gpt the past few turns (presumably at 0% science). Our last 2 turns (60gpt and 61gpt)

that's huge!

Quoting this for emphasis in case anyone missed it in the data logs above. I agree that this is extremely useful economic information to have on our competitors - very well done!