[SPOILERS] Team EggHeads: DMOC and TeddyKGB (Now Lurker-Friendly!)

[retep]

Finish reading, I did get confused by something, you keep saying that one civ (I think carebears) have confu. This mean they already have CoL?

Choose Religion is enabled for this game.

Ahh that make sense.

[DMOC]

Turn 61 - 1560 BC

I did not end this turn, Teddy, just in case you wanted to make some changes. I didn't change any of the tiles the cities worked, so Carnegie Mellon might be suboptimal without adjusting...

We finished Writing this turn, and I turned research down to 0%. I set research to Sailing. I think we should probably get either Sailing or Masonry next (due to the stone). Then after that, we can decide on Mathematics versus a Monarchy beeline. Our break-even research rate is at 60%.

Meanwhile, our scout explored the coast, and ... uh, did SutOxy seriously settle a city that essentially wastes 5 coastal tiles and 2 inland lakes? If they had settled 4 of that city, they could get the benefit of being coastal and have two lighthouse-able lakes, and still help work the cottages. I guess they wanted the extra food that badly?

Meanwhile, our warrior near LP moved to reveal more of the land between us. Do we want this warrior to go north or south after this? It's highly unlikely we'll be able to get the rice so I'm not sure how worthwhile it is for us to continue north.

Two chops finished this turn, so now we'll have 2 workers ready for action next turn, not counting Worker F coming out of MIT. Do you want to call him 'Benjamin Franklin'?

Our warrior moved and saw the borders of Care Bears' sixth city. If we settle city 5 in about 5 turns, we should win the culture battle for the cows. We should also have at least one chariot there after the capital finishes its chariot after the settler.

I decided to switch Stanford to a Library, since I think we agreed that Stanford should be the one making Great Scientists? It says 10 turns, but if we can get a chop in or a whip, it'll be faster, and we can put the overflow to finishing the warrior and then the chariot after that. If we can work 2 early Great Scientists, we can get the academy in the capital just when it finishes the library. Carnegie Mellon will likely need to build workers, settlers, and chariots for our empire.

If you don't think this is optimal feel free to change this.

Demographics:

Thoughts on the plan:

1. Sailing -> Masonry -> (Mathematics / Monarchy) sound good?
2. What tech did Care Bears choose from The Oracle? Metal Casting? It gives 4000 power, and we did see the average rival count increase by about 2000. But the power graph doesn't seem to say this:

3. Are we cool with Stanford working the 2 great scientists? If so, how quickly do we want to get the library done? I understand after this turn that we'll have our second cottage up. I assume one of those workers will come over to Stanford, pre-road a cottage 1 of Stanford, then build cottage on the riverside grassland. We may want to consider a chop instead since Stanford won't grow much beyond size 4 if it works 2 scientists.

4. Do we still want a 3-pop whip of Carnegie Mellon? If we can't get the road hooked up in time do we want a 2-pop whip instead? Or can do 3-pop and put in more overflow into the next item on the capital's build queue.

5. When can we get MIT growing to size 4?

6. I offered open borders to Team Orgynized.

Last but not least, I think you've mentioned this before, but how do you tell if another civilization has hooked up a resource that you've seen, but have not seen them settle? E.g. Lord Parkin saw us working the gold for a while even though he never MIT's borders.

[TeddyKGB]

Quick reply to last msg:
- I suggest Stanford back to chariot. We'll need a second chariot in our borders, while 1st one should go near site city#5 location soon. In any case try to avoid show this chariot to India.

- Library could be 5-3 whiped and regrow size4 fast (1 turn) and start workring 2sci.
Problem is we will be down at 0% for several turns to get enough gold for next tech push.

- I was interested to test our mids timing. Even before stone info, I was mention Masonary as minor alternative. Lets test fastest mids possible and go decide from there.

- India whipped again, I doubt it means city#8 soon, but it could be.

- If we want keep close borders with both India and LP, we could research Sailing, produce Granary>WorkBoat>Galley in UC and settler somewhere else. Settle 1tile island near Fish and get IC trade routes.

[TeddyKGB]

Another one about domestic:

- I'm not sure we want to improve more tiles in Stanford right now, e.g. riverside cottage (I was thinking about farm on this tile later).

- After chariot and finish warrior(14/15 now) for garrison duty, Stanford grow to size5 and could slave Library fast or slave settler with overflow into library.

- I'd prefer next improved tile would be GHmine for Stanford/MIT. But not sure how fast we could spare a worker for it.

- City#5 and stone improvement. We will plant #5 on T66 now I guess, so borders will expand on T71. By this time we might want to have Masonry and 2-3 workers ready to improve stone. I'm not sure we have a real chance on mids, but we could try. Even failed gold isnt completely bad with 1h=2g rate with stone wonder. I'm afraid one of the other 5 teams was aiming mids long ago, tho. And OxySut could have a plan to settle stone fast (could be already settled by their city#4). I'll try to micro plan mids for us and we can decide.

- One more thing, stone isnt guaranteed for us on T71. India could easy plant city to grab stone before we do. And our NAP expired on T75, so we need some Axe(s) present in that area beside chariot(s) or extend NAP with India again even if we are get stone first.

- Masonry>Poly>Mono could be an option, not much chance to grab religion, but its on the way to Monarcy and Feudalism. We could need OR civic even if missed Monotheism. And revolt to Rep(if we land mids)+OR or Monarchy+OR in one turn.

- And about CM delay settler to get more overflow. I was planning to give pigs to MIT next turn. And CM will grow into unhappieness next turn, its not a big deal while working on Settler/Worker, but still not much food to transorm to hammers. And 1 turn faster Stone available to connect could be important.

If you are ok with some domestic change on T61, I'll login and do it:
-switch Stanford to chariot
-switch CM to Lib for one turn
-switch tech to Masonry, keep slider at 0% for next 5 turns at least.

[TeddyKGB]

I'm thinking about long post about diplo and overall situation to reply your posts, DMOC.

But let me first just whine about how screwed we are, imo.

- Locked up with 4 possible strongest teams on a 'continent'. We could be on a 'pangea' type of map with some icey bridges, as LP said to us, but still...

- Our neighbours are IMP India and IND LP, probably frontrunners in PB14 so far. Obv, both Yuufo and LP are very compitent with lots of MP experience.

- IMP India opening was amaizing. Well played.

- India's land is better than ours in general. I'm still confused where 'our' Furs could be, for example. On ice tile next to ice deer maybe?

- No FIN with 4 strongest FIN teams around and bad starting techs for us. I did whine about it enough already in this thread.

- Back to LP and Yuufo, if they will make some secret pact like LP and Plako did in PB4 that would be great ... for LP mostly, and team between them even more screwed. I'm sure LP considering this option, and if I was on his place - I would see this option as most preferable in diplo.
Regarding this, imho, your reply to LP includes some unnecessary information (like our military is chariot and its location; mention Asterix, his deal with India and our possible actions together - that was kind of confidential info, imo). And agreeing too many deals with LP fast (EP and not settle more than 5 tiles in other team direction).
I had no better solution now, DMOC. I'm pretty confused what we should do about diplo in general. And I'm inexperienced in MP and full diplo.

- I've already made some mistakes with micro, units moves and diplo actions.

OTOH, we were very lucky with rng so far. Does it means we'll be very unlucky later?

Enough of whining from me, lets win this game now.
I hope I'll post something useful about diplo soon enough.

[DMOC]

Your domestic changes are fine. I thought MIT would make another chariot after it finishes Worker F, but maybe Stanford can do that. Remember, as Creative, we want to use our advantage to get a fast Scientist.

Couple of comments

-So what if we had bad starting techs? It doesn't look like we're that far behind, to be honest. We've expanded at the second best rate and have gotten Writing before Orgynized and Care Bears
-Espionage deal and not settling 5 in each direction -- these are deals we want, imo. Why would we settle towards Orgynized when we have (generally better) land towards (a bigger threat) in Care Bears? I would also prefer more espionage points towards Care Bears.
-We should keep talking with Orgynized about diplomacy, then. Keep asking him about NAPs if we want more security. And I'm not sure why he has motivation to deal with India, becuase if it's a 2v1, Care Bears will likely maintain their advantage.
-Masonry is fine, then Sailing I assume.
-Yes, Care Bears has better land than us but not much we can do about it.
-No, I wouldn't close borders with both Care Bears and Orgynized; that'd be economic suicide. For now I suggest we keep OB with Orgynized.
-I'm worried about how long it will take for Stanford to grow to size 5 and get the library. Probably just over thinking it but yeah we can definitely continue growing it. But we should get at least 1 more cottage by Stanford.
-If we have next improved tile as the grass hill from MIT, we might not be working it since MIT grows so slowly and Stanford should work cottages and hire scientists.

[TeddyKGB]

I could be wrong about almost everything. I did thinking about the game much last few days and maybe just overthinkg it too much.
Sorry, if I sounded like you were wrong about msg to LP.
You should take over diplomacy anyway, that was our plan from the start.

I'm still disagree with you about settling 5 tiles from capital deal, though.
We want settle cities near Sheep and on forested river pretty soon, and these locations are 7 tiles in west direction from our capital.
Its not city#5 and most likely not #6, but #7 and #8 both could go LP's way. And their timing should be faster.

On other matter, SutOxys expansion is better than ours at the moment. He just whip 3 pop if I understand correct. He has at least one granary already, more likely 2-3.
They'll plant city#5 2-3 turns sooner than our team. Possible location near stone, aiming for mids.
They are working at least 2 FIN Hamlets now and FIN lake. They will keep expanding fast, most likely, while having bigger tech rate.
Their city#3 at size4 now.

On T61 I did some changes: Chariot in Stanford, Lib in CM, Masonry instead Sailing at 0%.
I'm not sure about Masonry, but I was undecided for too long and just choose Masonry and end the turn. Its not a big deal while on 0%, but overflow from writing was quite large.
I'm kinda think 2 other changes I've made on T61 were the right one.
I'll report on T62 soon.

T61 screenshots.

[DMOC]

Yeah, we definitely need to work more cottages; ideally, the 2 cottages we've just built by Stanford/CM should be worked throughout the rest of the game...and hopefully MIT can help out in settler/worker production. We badly need more workers, settlers, chariots, and cottages!!!

I will be eagerly awaiting the turn 62 report. I'll comment more once it comes. Also about the Orgynized deal, we can always try to negotiate more with them later. Let's see how they respond to our latest message (if they do).

[TeddyKGB]

T62.

We won vs barb warrior.

Domestic.
Thats some sort of plan I had in mind for some time:

- CM grow to size6, start settler, could whip it next turn. Complete Lib on T66-67.
- MIT finished worker, stole pigs from CM, finally will grow size4 soon. Next turn complete granary with 12/26 food stored. Most likely start chariot next.
- Stanford grow to size3, take 2nd cottage (just completed) as 3rd tile to work. Chariot could be built in 2 turns instead of 3 if we swap it to GHmine for 1 turn.
- UC will finish granary next turn at 10/22 food, borders will expand and Corn will be done on T64. If we keep all 3 workers at UC, Horses will be improved right the same turn UC grow to size2, with roads on Corn and 1S of Horses. Most likely start workboat next.

So basically I suggest we keep 3 workers to put UC online fast, 2 workers roading to copper, last one (currently just finished cottage) could join them to road city#5, improve copper, farm flood plains or prepair stone to connect. That worker could finish the chop into CM on the way to city#5 or it could be redirect to CM/MIT/Stanford area next turn or after chop to do something else.

Its not decided, if you suggest other cities and workers action.

[DMOC]

Good news on the warrior! And I like your plan, Teddy.

Domestic.
Thats some sort of plan I had in mind for some time:

- CM grow to size6, start settler, could whip it next turn. Complete Lib on T66-67.
- MIT finished worker, stole pigs from CM, finally will grow size4 soon. Next turn complete granary with 12/26 food stored. Most likely start chariot next.
- Stanford grow to size3, take 2nd cottage (just completed) as 3rd tile to work. Chariot could be built in 2 turns instead of 3 if we swap it to GHmine for 1 turn.
- UC will finish granary next turn at 10/22 food, borders will expand and Corn will be done on T64. If we keep all 3 workers at UC, Horses will be improved right the same turn UC grow to size2, with roads on Corn and 1S of Horses. Most likely start workboat next.

So basically I suggest we keep 3 workers to put UC online fast, 2 workers roading to copper, last one (currently just finished cottage) could join them to road city#5, improve copper, farm flood plains or prepair stone to connect. That worker could finish the chop into CM on the way to city#5 or it could be redirect to CM/MIT/Stanford area next turn or after chop to do something else.

Its not decided, if you suggest other cities and workers action.

CM: Yes, whip it next turn is fine. Then overflow into library, followed by chariot? We might actually consider working the 2 scientists in Carnegie Mellon.
MIT: Yes, finally growing to size 4. It can stagnate at size 4 while building chariot -> worker.
Stanford: I don't think we need the chariot in 2 turns, better to grow on cottages. Do we want to go Chariot -> Warrior -> Library?
Berkeley: Agreed, workboat afterwards for exploration purposes. After that ... possibly workers and/or settlers? It will have nice tiles, after all.
Cornell: We might as well start planning for this city (city #5). If it turns out that we need to culturally battle Care Bears, we might consider an early library.

Worker actions: 3 for berkeley is fine since it will eventually be an important city, but we might consider pulling one back to mine or farm near MIT/CM area.
2 for roading to the fifth city is fine, we definitely need at least two there and I assume the workers will build roads on the copper as well en route to city, which is fine since it actually takes the same number of turns if we were to road that desert tile. I would keep the sixth nearby Stanford and CM because I really think we need at least one more cottage by that area, and while one of those two cities will be working 2 great scientists, the other will be at a healthy size and growing those cottages. If we get one more cottage built in the Stanford and/or CM area, then that'll be okay for the short term (up to about turn 75-ish, when we definitely need more cottages).

PS: I'm not sure if I've ever had a civ where I've had 4 granaries completed in all 4 cities this early. Hopefully that will help us stay neck-to-neck with most of the other civilizations.

PPS: Did we move the eastern warrior over to scout near city 5? Since we already know the north we might consider going south towards that grass hill near the copper.