RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[regoarrarr]

, where did this came from?

What do you mean?

The Sunrise Accord?

Exploit hsa been working on that for awhile. I think the general feeling of their alliance is that they want sunrise to stop funding my research or die.

[regoarrarr]

And most importantly, chat with Broker

Broker: Can you get Kodi to conceed the war and urumki to me?
Although his capital is cooked either way I think . Too much invested
me: i bet i could
you saw the note i sent to you and the lins, right?
Broker: yeah
My issue is this. I have no interest in playing King maker
me: right
that makes sense
Broker: You would of course have to fight in ernest
me: but in a way, by not trimming down exploit now, you are making him king
you = everyone
Broker: I am aware of the danger with helping him
me: right
we all are
we have tried to cut him down TWICE now
and yet, here he still is... bigger than ever
Broker: Problem with both attempts is he was left with allies
me: right
Broker: you should have negoitated a dogpile instead of a group switch
me: i think we need a grand alliance
well i did try to get you
and the lins
but it was executed poorly
my fault
Broker: Well originally you mentioned Lins out in the cold and timeing with me was poor
me: right
it was dumb
(me)
Broker: It made sense at the time I am sure but in the grand scale of things.....
This conversation is confidential correct?
me: i mean i'm happy to talk about that stuff (i like to talk, ya know) but i just don't want to give my reasonings / thoughts and have it sound like rationalizing or sour grapes
yes
you me and the thread
gotta keep the post count up :-D
Broker: I'll hold you to that
me: so yeah if you want i can give you what i was thinking back then
and my reasonings
Broker: Here are some major issues with setting this up
me: but in the end it doesn't really matter
Broker: water under the bridge
me: ok
so let's talk about it some once we get the real important stuff all figgered up
Broker: I'll read it after in your thread.
me: lol
that will probably give you a better idea rather than me just trying to rationalize myself aftger the fact
ok so problems
let's hear em and fix em
Broker: Realistically nothing you say now would change my position so why waste the time
1
Imhotep is flying low but still has pride
probably wont be help but should be included if nothing else than a buffer zone
me: fine with me
i've been tryign to reach him / get with him for 100 turns
maybe i've just been doing it wrong
Broker: 2) Munro/Morgan will be Key without 2 fronts Exploit will defend just fine
me: yup fine with him too
Broker: Now the sticky point is elkad, shady and dsp
How to repair that situation.
Elkad is unlikely to join in but if he is distracting shady and dsp it wont work
Would probably need his city back at a min
You personally will be a major front with the war and your teching will drop. leaving it to me, dsp and possible lins/kodi although lins will need to defend
me: though if we're not competing witha nyone else
Broker: Shady/munro/dsp and possibly imho would be the other front
me: it doesnt' matter how slow we tech
Broker: Exploit is doing 400 plust bpt self funded
me: nice
who gave him representation!?!?!? :-D
Broker: Not really but that was the monster I had to create to get this situation
me: so what do you think? can we do this?
is it worth trying to iron out the details?
Broker: I agree with you the time is probably now to do it.
me: right
i mean can you imagine trying to take on a 40 city civ that has all those defensive bonuses (railroads, air power, etc)
Broker: Problem with holidays is people are gone that need to be involved.
Dreylin is out, I am moving Munro is out
me: seems like we should have a pause for the holidays?
i don't think that would be unreasonable
though maybe it tips off exploit?
Broker: I dont either considering the circumstances
me: we're pausing in pb2
Broker: yeah
havent paid too much attention there other than I think we will survive
me: you could post something like you didn't realize how busy you'd be and coudl we pause for the holidays
oh yeah?
our situation is still dicey
or maybe sunrise could - after all he is connecting at mcdonalds
Broker: Yeah Munro out also and Dreylin gone for a few days in there
Ok my personal needs since I will have no option to gain land in the grand battle
Urumki and settling rights to first city burned.
I will allow Kodi to resettle capital and provide some war reperations for "war crimes" burning the sistine and all
If I dont burn it or at least try Exploit will know something is up.
unavoidable now
I think at this point your email about spoils is spot on
me: right
i wonder if kodii would be willing to just give up
for the good of the alliance
some sort of deal there
Broker: I would take him as a vassel
me: right something like that
where is urumqi?
Broker: due north of pawn
me: that's the holy cityr ight?
ah got it
Broker: yeah but I dont think he has spread the religion or has a shrine yet
me: here's the map (as of 40 turns ago)

Sent at 1:08 PM on Wednesday
Broker: nice
me: way out of date
but useful for general who borders who stuff
Broker: damn dsp is big
me: well i had to guess on some of the borders
but yeah i think that's fairly accurate
you and munro can take him out once you swallow kodii
Broker: That is for way down the road
Kodi even if he resettles his cap is crippled
me: right
Broker: assuming RNG dosent hose me I should burn it this turn
me: do you play first or does he?
Broker: Dont you agree with the troop composition
I play next
battle is set
me: seems like it
Broker: He could have emptied other cities and protected it but didnt . Dont unerstand that left just enough to get beat and I lose my stack in the process
Wonder if he thinks I would just try to save the stack
me: dunno
his relative lack of time might be playing a part of it
Broker: True
me: not everyone can sit around and talka bout the game for 3-4 hours a day like us :-D
Broker: True I should be packing but cant bring myself to do it
me: bah
Broker: I did do the garage earlier
me: packing's overrated
just smash it all in the truck
Broker: Wierd starting the lawnmower in winter
me: i need to cut my grass
my tractor died
Broker: Having movers do it so needs to be boxed
me: and i got my regular mower working
but then it ran out of gas
then someone came and fixed the tractor
so i started cutting the front yard one last time
and it died halfway through
so now i have a 1/2 cut yard which is worse than not cut at all :-D
Broker: yep
Lets look at worst case scenario
Something I dont think you did before
Well minor worst case but a very possible one
You , lins, me, sunrise, shady and dsp, kodi join forces.
Elkad wont do it because of the wars
me: so no elkad, imho or munro
Broker: Imhotep, munro throw in thiier lot with exploit and are provided drafted rifles to assist
You, lins and sunrise fight on your front.
Shady, dsp me and kodi fight on ours.
me: i have to fight on the other front too vs imhotep
Broker: Not if shady and dsp engage him
wont be able to split forces
me: yeah probably not too much you're right
i have to at least be vigilant over there but you're right
Broker: Kodi even with concessions to me gets some of munro land
I have to defend back cities against boat attacks in that case
but a true world war no sitting back or we all are sunk
me: i'm all in
what would munro's reasonings be to drop out of allying with you and go with exploit?
Broker: Ok talk with Kodi shady and dsp to guage thier interest.
me: it seems like we'd want munro more than kodii, right?
Broker: Elkad I will send a message to to determine if and what his conditions would be
Yes we would but shady and dsp have a close relationship with Kodi be careful in cutting him out. Would prefer everybody
me: yeah you're right
i'm thinking about group vs. dogpile again
don't know why i keep doing that when it's already failed twice this game
Broker: Right. Now is the time for all to join against the common threat
me: so who's the most likely to leak to exploit?
Broker: munro probably
me: oh i was goign to say elkad?
are you close to munro at all?
Broker: Elkad dosent talk much neither does imho
Munro is out but yeah we talk
Havent talked much to morgan
me: i figured you could secure morgan
i'm pretty sure i can get shady and dsp
Broker: I will approach him going to be dicey
me: and fairly certain i can get kodii to agree at a minimum
to the concessions you outlined
if not some sort of vassalage
Broker: I dont need vasselazation but if he wants I would take him.. Urumki I do need
me: so what parts of this do you want to keep off the record?
Broker: That we talked. Present it as Exploit is the threat and if we could set up this scenario would you be interested?
to start with. Now if they are interested then you can go into more detail
me: okay
i already talked a bit with shady this morning
Broker: make sense?
me: about our conversation from earlier
pretty sure he's interested
i kept it pretty basic
lemme see what i said
i mentioned the steam power / const trade that i threw out as a suggestion
Brian: yeah, I don't want to say 'don't try to get broker on our side' but I just can't see it happen...
maybe I'm just being pessimistic
ope I'm wrong
*hope
Broker: Well I dont think my price is too high and the timing is right
me: right
i also emailed sunrise to suggest he ask for a pause
Broker: Nothing I cant already get but then exploit grows
me: but if you want to do so too that's fine
Sent at 1:28 PM on Wednesday
me: i think it's much more likely that i can get kodii to agree to concessions then it will be to get shady to return elkad's city
we may have to contingency plan for elkad being hostile
Broker: Yeah that is true
me: but i think that shady / dsp can have a skeleton force containing elkad (who is all but crippled)
and still fight on the other front
Broker: Is there anywhere for elkad to expand except through you 3?
Maybe just being able to build up his civ again for a chance later will be enough for him
Sent at 1:31 PM on Wednesday
me: yeah
there may be some lands to elkad's west
like east of the lins, south of sunrise
not sure if that's gotten filled up yet since this pic
Broker: shady cut that off taking kerk
me: yeah
Broker: That would be the only city I would ask for back but as you said will be a tough sell to shady
me: right
i think honestly our best bet would be to just count on elkad being out
i think anything else risks exploit hearing too soon
Broker: Well I will give him the option at least to build up
me: okay
just got an email from exploit talking about "the sunrise accord"
have you heard of this part of the plan?
where sunrise gifts 200+gpt to Exploit?
Broker: interesting how he names things
me: yeah
Broker: yeah prefered choice is sunrise joins us or sends most of his gold to us for peace
me: us being your group?
Broker: yeah
Sunrise is in a tough spot right now
me: right
which i think he knows
Broker: Could give him a chance to win if the dogpile works
me: maybe
Broker: Outside chance
me: he and the lins probably stand to grab the most land
Broker: at least be a factor
me: of exploits
maybe munro
Broker: yeah those three are key. You will take a beating on the growth but cant be helped now
me: right
Broker: I can backline tech and supply troops
me: i'll take less of a beating like this than if i just take all of exploit's force myself! :-D
Broker: I do have a good mfg base
me: are you #1?
Broker: no 3rd but that is cause I have been whipping and drafting stuff
me: okay
i assume exploit is #1
i'm #2
Broker: probably
I am too far away to be in the direct fight but you know I will do my part
me: right
you have in the past
in fact i just saw a Lin lima company HA roaming around my lands not too long ago
Broker: Yeah I left him a few
took most of them back. 7 of 11
me: okay well we get out of here at 3 pm today and i don't have any WORK to do but i would like to try and touch base with at least shady before i go
i assume you also will keep this off the record on your side?
Broker: ok I will send a couple emails

It looks like an "everyone vs. Exploit" alliance is getting off the ground. Time will tell whether or not we can make it happen, but at least initially it is looking good. It hurts that many people are away for the holidays, but hopefully someone will ask for a pause or we'll be able to get things ironed out anyways.

[regoarrarr]

Email sent to shady, dsp, sunrise and kodii

Hey guys,

So as you are probably aware, Exploit has a lot of cities and a lot of land and a lot of score and a lot of population! :-D

I have been chatting off and on with some of the folks that are currently in the "other" alliance about ways we can try and cut him off before he just up and wins the game. This has recently come to a head because Exploit has decided to start playing "bad cop" and is threatening to a) kill sunrise unless sunrise gives him 1/2 his gold (minimum 200gpt) and b) kill me with his overwhelming force if I don't give him Steam Power, my engineer and the 4 border cities.

So the talks have started heating up. Keep this to yourselves please, but I think there is some real movement towards a grand "anti-Exploit" alliance.

Now, a word on the size of the alliance. Twice in this game, groups of 5 civs have tried to leave the other civs behind. Both times it was at least partially in an attempt to rein in Krill / Yaz / Exploit, who had massive advantages in land / score / pop. Both times it has failed. I think that at least in part, the previous attempts have failed because the alliance was too small. There were too many other civs left over to serve as a counter.

That's why this time, I think we need to make it as big as we can, and include anyone who wants. Ideally it would be 10-1 and although that's probably untenable in the long term, at least hopefully we'd be able to give Exploit a thorough beating before it shattered.

Now, there are 2 areas that could cause problems. First off, Elkad. I have mentioned that shadyforce and Daniel will not be giving Kerkouane back or any other reparations. I think that if Elkad agrees to a ceasefire that would be fine, but even if he is hostile, I think that we can continue to maintain the status quo with limited commitments from us.

The other one is the Broker / Munro / Kodii war. The concessions that Broker is requesting / demanding are Urumqi and the rights to settle the city that was razed to start the war. Additionally from the battle reports I am hearing, it's likely that Bradbury Hill will be razed next turn, and there's not much anyone can do to stop that.

Kodii - I know that's a bitter pill to swallow. If you're wanting to fight on, I will understand. I know that you've had limited time to fight this war / continue on playing. You're probably in a better position to know whether or not you can stop Broker / Munro at all once Bradbury Hill falls. If not, I guess this may be as good a deal as you can get. If you'd prefer either fighting on or even giving up / vassaling, I am sure we can work something out.

Anyway, I know this is the Christmas season and folks have limited availability, but obviously time is tight here so let me know your thoughts

[regoarrarr]

Trying to get things going along. Kodii appears to be fighting on

But wouldn't it be better to use all these units (on both sides) against Exploit, before he wins the game (or at least puts himself in an even more dominant position than before)?

I think we have a unique possibility to really generate an anti-Exploit dogpile alliance. We've tried (twice) to leave folks behind by splitting up into roughly equal groups.

Daniel - your point about only really NEEDING Broker and the Lins is probably accurate, but if Munro or Imhotep or Elkad or whoever want to fight, I see no reason to turn them away. The time for getting rid of them is after Exploit is neutered.

If he doesn't see some serious action on some of his other flanks, my ability to be a viable research is going to be severely hampered. I don't know if it will affect my ability to provide Railroad or not - depends on when he attacks. He seems confident that his stack will obliterate mine. I can't tell if he's bluffing or not - maybe he is - but he has city visibility on most of my cities so maybe he's not.

I know ceding Urumqi is a tough nut to swallow, but weren't you just talking yesterday that if he razed your capital you'd probably vassalize to someone due to time commitments? I don't want to make you vassalize to anyone if you don't want to, and I think you can still play a valuable role in this game, but I just hope that you (Along with the rest of us) can be mustered to neutralize the #1 dominant factor in this game.

As I said before, I will take no land spoils from Exploit, and I am happy to try and mediate any disputes between civs

What do you guys say?

[regoarrarr]

Some grumblings - Kodii has changed tune. Day after saying that if he lost his capital he'd probably vassalize, now he doesn't want to give up Urumqi

I wrote

Do you think that you can hold it eventually, given that you are facing trouble on both flanks (from Broker and Munro)? If not, doesn't it make more sense to use all those armies against Exploit?

I just know that if Exploit comes after me, I might be able to hold him off on my own, but my research ability is going to be severely hurt due to drafting / whipping. Also, the deal that sunrise is going to have (because he doesn't have the army to stop Exploit and I won't be able to be much help because I'll also have to guard my borders) to take if we can't pull this alliance off is going to force him to pay Exploit 1/2 his gold per turn, with a minimum of 200gpt. So that is going to crimp his ability to fund either Daniel or myself. We're going to fall behind in tech due to that, and that is going to hurt even more.

I don't know - if any of you have better options I'm happy to listen to them but I'm not seeing them.

[regoarrarr]

Some diplomacy going around

Broker to me

Things look good on my end. Morgan/Munro would needs troops to press a war but I am sure shady or dsp could provide them since they are not on the front lines. He will just need to be shown the logistics work.

Elkad had a brief chat with he seemed interested in some time at peace to heal.

Imho not heard from but that is expected. If it can be worked out lins and I would be in.

Kodi still fighting on makes it difficutl for me. If I have to take urumki I may just end up haveing to take him completely out which would draw away from potential support to the main effort.

I of course am continuing as there is no agreement until we have one. Hate wasting the beakers on steam but in the event it falls apart dont want to be behind in it. Pause should help you on your end. You have the more difficutl crew to convince.

Just point out now is not the time to think of themselves now is the time to dog pile. 10 v 1 once exploit is crippled it will fall apart quickly.

Should probably include a cool off period that we all agree to and we agree not to secretly build up for a back stab before it.

My reply

Okay - I will keep working on things. But even if we can't get Kodii onboard, I'd still like to work with you and the Lins (and Morgan or Imhotep if they want it).

So from Kodii's perspective, what is he getting out of this? I don't see him getting much land and it is true that gaining peace with you is probably attractive to him, but it comes with a cost. Would you be willing to delay taking possession of Urumqi, or is that non-negotiable? You are still getting Steam Power and potentially Steel for free.

I know that you are not in a good position to get many concessions out of Exploit himself, but like you said, maybe now is the time to dogpile Exploit and we can sort out the rest of things later? Kodii is finished - with no capital, which means no GL, Sistine, etc., his research capability is crushed, if it wasn't already from your war.

I will continue working on things but wanted to throw this out as a possibility too - also I agree on a cool down period of some time.

Dsp to me, kodii, sunrise and shady

I think you are underestimating your ability to defend against Exploit. You will be defending in your own territory so your troops will be more mobile and you will be able to hit his stack with a bunch of Cannons first.

Your territory and Sunrise's are right next to each other. With a couple of spies in Exploit's territory you should be able to see whether he is in position to attack sunrise or you, and defend accordingly.

We'll have machine guns and railroads soon, which will also make defense much easier. If you are worried about an attack before you finish Railroad, my troops wouldn't make it to your territory in time to help out, and I imagine it is the same for most of the other civs.

Drafting is cheap as long as in most of your cities you only do it once every 10 turns. You have enough cities that you should be able to have a large army this way. It is much better to slightly hurt your research via drafting than to hand over 200 gold per turn to your biggest threat in the game! I would strongly advise against Sunrise making the deal with Exploit. If Sunrise makes the deal it just means that Exploit can focus on you, so you'll have to defend against the same army anyway, except now Exploit's research will be improved.

As far as Kodii is concerned, I've tied up Munro's forces, so he's only facing Broker now. He thinks he can hold off against Broker.

As I said before, I'm not against more civs joining our alliance, but I don't think we need all of them, and if Kodii doesn't want to make concessions to Broker then I don't think we need to.

[regoarrarr]

My reply to the group

You may be right about my ability to defend. Still, Exploit is the one who has city visibility on my cities so he may know more. Of course he may be bluffing. And I really think sunrise might be in trouble, once his NAPs run out on T190 - he has to deal with Exploit AND the lins. I'll leave it up to sunrise as to whether or not he's going to take the deal.

I think that now is the time for a dogpile on exploit. If it is not now, then when? He too is going to have railroads and machine guns before too long, not to mention airships / fighters / etc. If we can't stop him now when will we? And if we can't get an anti-Exploit alliance going now, when tactics are in our favor, then when will we? It shouldn't take long with all of us attacking.

So Kodii - if you feel you don't want to / shouldn't give up Urumqi, do you have a counter offer? Is there something else that you'd be willing to live with?

[regoarrarr]

Email to shadyforce

Hey,

I'm off work all week this week so I'm in and out - not sure what your availability is either. But wanted to drop you a line to figure out where you (and by extension Daniel) stand on the whole anti-Exploit alliance. Perhaps I am hyper-sensitive to things because I'm on the exploit front, but I'm worried about it.

Plus, I do feel like if we don't take him out now, we're not going to be able to do so ever. And if that's the case, then doesn't he stand the best chance at winning, since he'll be the biggest?

So while I would prefer Kodii in, would you be willing to work with Broker / Lins (and against Exploit) if Kodii won't?

Not sure exactly how it might play out, but maybe peace with Elkad, and you / daniel / munro / maybe Imhotep? provide pressure on Exploit's western / southern flanks. Sunrise / Lins / me fight on the east. Broker continues to fight with Kodii - from what they're saying that with no outside interference that's kind of a stalemate so that shouldn't be too bad. It does take 2 civs' armies away from Exploit but what can we do about that? Most importantly, it stops Exploit from getting Steel / Steam Power / Railroads.

Anyway I sh ould be around later today

[regoarrarr]

Reply back from Broker - all things that make sense

Actually Urumki is what I started the war for in the first place. Right now if I give peace without taking it I gain nothing unless I settle the cities I razed which totally cuts off Urumki and becomes very difficult to defend my new cities. Too much invested in war without gaining some growth out of it. Especally since I have won the war.

Kodi gets peace, he gets a chance to rebuild and put himself in a position to gain later either by attacking me or munro or dsp when the dogpile falls apart. Other wise I keep destroying his capibilities. Basically the same deal Elkad is getting. I will be doing another round of drafting soon. Another 15 rifles, more cats and possibly cannon and tons a cav are comming. I can use them on him or supply to Lins for Exploit his choice. I offered him back the ability to settle his capital and would have given him a couple workers before he destroyed my survivors.

[regoarrarr]

Chat with shady

me: so as for this game
i guess the net of things for me
is that i don't really WANT to fight exploit
and i don't want to fight you
i'd prefer to fight him over you
(when i say i don't want to fight him i mean fight him by myself0
so i don't want to say, join broker and the lins
only to have you wanting to fight me
in that scenario i'd prefer to keep you with me / us
Sent at 1:44 PM on Tuesday
me: like i said in my email to you, i think that even if kodii won't get onboard, we could still fight exploit without him (and broker)
but obviously it wouldn't be as effective
shadyforce: are the Lins willing to fight exploit?
me: i think so
shadyforce: and would they be even if broker and kodii were still in their own war?
me: i think so
shadyforce: and broker can't be talked into even a temporary cease fire and resume the fight with kodii until after exploit war?
me: i am working on that
but trying to plan for the worst case
shadyforce: (in fareness to him I can see good reasons why he should not)
me: right
shadyforce: but it would be good for us if he did
me: what he told me thi8s morning was that urumqi was the whole reason he started this war
"Actually Urumki is what I started the war for in the first place. Right now if I give peace without taking it I gain nothing unless I settle the cities I razed which totally cuts off Urumki and becomes very difficult to defend my new cities. Too much invested in war without gaining some growth out of it. Especally since I have won the war."
which is certainly reasonable
shadyforce: yeah, wouldn't hold that against him, but at the same time I wouldn't ask Kodii to give that up... particularly because medium term it's better for us to not let broker get too strong
me: agreed
shadyforce: ok, I haven't really thought about the civ game the poast week or so, taking a proper break
but I had a quick read through your email earlier
me: the flip side to that is he is one of the few powers that have no way to get anything from exploit
land-wise
(or imhotep)
shadyforce: if kodii did not have to cede anything to broker and I did not have to cede Kerk then I see no reason why a joint assault on exploit bringing in the Lins and Munro (and Imho) is worse than the status quo
how much I can personally contribute depends on whether I sign a cease fire with elkad or whether we remain in a cold war type situation
me: right
the reports i got from broker were that elkad would be interested in a ceasefire
"Elkad had a brief chat with he seemed interested in some time at peace to heal."
shadyforce: but even at war with him, if I have minimal threat from imho and Lins then I'll definitely be able to contribute something
me: (obviously the holidays are cramping everyone's ability to diplome)
righ
just re-read broker's email and he says that the lins are in with him
shadyforce: I understand that those two are pretty tighly allied, but does that mean that the lins will be helping broker against kodii instead of helping us against exploit?
me: yeah
not sure about that
i will talk to broker / lins about that
i would hope that the lins would help against exploit
so let's brainstorm
what else can we offer broker
that he'll take
besides urumqi
the other brainstorm to do is how can we convince kodii to give that up
we need to figure out one of the two
shadyforce: nothing that I want ti give to be perfectly honest
meh, I guess broker has irked me in this game
me: oh yeah?
shadyforce: not by anything about him or anything he said
but by him getting to expand without any natural enemies while the rest of us fight it out, plus that gifting muskets to elkad in the nick of time
me: yeah
shadyforce: so I should really say: the HRE have irked the Shady empire in this game
me: though i guess too it's true that whenever you start to get irked by something, then EVERYTHING they do starts to irk you
Sent at 1:56 PM on Tuesday
shadyforce: perhaps tell broker that I'm willing to give temporarily cease fire with elkad to help the cause against exploit even though doing so allows elkad time to recover and loses impotice (sp?) with our tech advantage
me: (impetus)
shadyforce: and that his situation is pretty analagous with kodii
me: that's a good point
Sent at 1:59 PM on Tuesday
me: so say broker won't sign a temporary ceasefire, but elkad does and the lins agree to fight exploit
would you be up for an exploit fight?
shadyforce: yeah, I think so
me: okay
you think daniel would too?
obviously you can't speak for him for sure
shadyforce: imo he probably will
me: ok
Sent at 2:05 PM on Tuesday
shadyforce: though one thing still bothers me which I'm going to share with you: in Lins/Brroker/Munro/Imho shoes, I would never ever agree to this move unless I was virtually certain of a significant shake-up in the alliance structure after exploit is dealt with
me: meaning that we just don't go back to the current alliances where they are just minus exploit?
shadyforce: well if they thought that's what would happen then killing off exploit means their alliance has no hope of catching us
me: i see what you're saying
shadyforce: so they must be fairly sure that that's not going to happen in order to agree with this plan
but I don't see why they should be so sure about this
me: i think it's unlikely - i see something like you me daniel sunrise broker team up
and knock out the "deadwood" civs
but it's hard to tell
the impression i'm getting out of broker is that he can tell that exploit is likely to ditch them once it becomes expedient
which is also the impression that he has given me
(he - exploit)
shadyforce: yeah, that's craziness
that exploit would ditch broker/munro/etc any time soon given the threat that our alliance poses,and that broker would believe thjat
me: i believe it
not that exploit would ditch it to go solo
but that he might team up with us
or some combination of it
that is the MO that exploit has been indicating to me
shadyforce: that might have been a valid fear were his civ not called 'Destroy Rego'
me: that he just looks to willow folks down at each age
i think that he was somewhat close to teaming up with us
i think he would team up with us / me if i agreeed to his demands
which i won't
because they're crazy
shadyforce: I guess I'm just underestimatinghow much everyone fears / mistrusts exploit
me: yeah
maybe because you're all the way around the world
haven't dealt with him much
okay i gotta run here (and play wii :-D) but i will email broker with the gist of what we talked about
and see if he will take a ceasefire
and confirm where the lins might stand

I wonder if I should be worried about exploit seeing the fact that I am updating my thread and wondering if things might be going on....

The things I do for you lurkers!!