Sareln Wrote:But think about the atmosphere of day 1 when we didn't know anything about theStick? He makes one 20-questions style post and gets some pressure, which builds throughout the course of the day. There's a general sense of unease: how come this wagon is sticking? If theStick's a wolf shoudln't there be some attempt to save him? The sinking feeling is that he's a villager, but because he has disappeared, people who've voted for him have no reason to move their votes, and the wolves are content with the situation. (this turns out not to be true, but we don't know that at the time). So then if we're careening towards a blow-out day 1 without (to me) an obvious case, it becomes imperative to mix things up. Even if we end up lynching the same guy (which we do), we should try and generate some movement for us to analyze later in the game.
And yes, I'm aware of the irony there, but better to get some movement and action and draw a bunch of heat than to let a lot-to-a-little lynch go through and learn nothing if the person is innocent.
That's exactly what I argued about thestick. And you suspect me for it? I didn't post much the first day and a half, and the game started 5 minutes after my bedtime. My activity has not been inconsistent with what I claimed it would be.
Merovech sounded off to me after the lynch. He was quick to blame me for my role in almost saving thestick while cavalierly dismissing his own more subtle part. Other favourite suspect is Q, mainly because novice seems to feel strongly about him.
I casually dismissed my part because I know I am innocent.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Arromir Wrote:Uberfish still strikes me as scummy as well, mostly due to his voting, and the tone of his posts has struck me as inconsistently odd. I also found it curious that he called me out, but ignored the fact I stated I suspected him in my response post. Since I know I'm town, but have admittedly played a rather scummy game so far, in terms of my awkward posts, it just seemed as potential groundwork for a mislynch, to see if anyone else would jump on.
You said you were going to sleep and would post some notes in the morning, so I pursued other leads in the meantime. There are enough people going "sareln and uberfish are suspicious for trying to save thestick" that your vote on me wasn't noteworthy. I don't consider OMGUS votes an indicator of alignment. It's the fact that you regard your own play as scummy, despite having voted to lynch scum, that is suspicious.
Now let's see those notes of yours. Do you have anything original to contribute to the discussion?
Ichabod Wrote:Sorry to spam the thread, but post 200 by thestick is a very compelling evidence towards Mattimeo's innocence (I was starting to think his claim could have made to save him in detriment of the lesser power role in thestick). but that one post is very difficult to fit in a "Mattimeo is a wolf theory".
Actually, I don't see why thestick putting matt on his "mild suspects" list would clear Matt.
I could switch to uberfish for lynch if he gets more momentum. Only very slight preference to Sareln right now is that given more time uberfish might do something helpful to town which could change my mind - but that requires active participation so I don't expect it from Sareln .
Also wouldnt mind an Ichabod lynch, Zak made a good case and he isn't doing anything to clear himself. I'm also no longer sure that Catwalk is village, but too many suspects for me to worry about him atm - I fear him as a wolf less than these other 3, tbh.
I do not like the votes against Qgqqqqq at all. The momentum behind him seems very sketchy to me, even by normal day 2 standards, and especially this day 2 when we have legitimate reads. Also, he doesn't really appear to be acting any differently than he did in ww15
Catwalk Wrote:Mattimeo, I wanted to know who you protected in order to investigate your role claim for later use. I agree you're leaning villager now, it might not stay that way. I'd rather you state now who you protected and why rather than give you more time for it later so it matches later developments (in case you're mafia). I don't see the major downside to revealing whether you used a charge or not, you have 3 and are unlikely to live long enough to use them all if you're not mafia.
Bigger, I think it's useful for the town to know Mattimeo's reasoning since he passed up on two fairly promising targets. I'll drop the matter seems noone seems interested, but I would like to echo Jkaen's sentiments about not clearing people 100% yet.
The discussion on Ichabod seems to have come to a discreet halt, wonder if we're being poked in different directions.
Until now, everything of what I'm accused of is that Zakalwe post and a whole lot of people voting for me or asking why isn't anyone following Zak's suspicion on me anymore. Did you guys see that I answered Zak's suspicions before day 2 even?
Jkaen Wrote:Other than "Zakalwe found him suspicious" I have not really seen anybody argue the case at all. Try to put a detailed analysis together for why he is mafia, and you may find renewed interest. Personnaly having reviewed it I cant really see the case
So why vote me in the first place, only to change your mind before I made a single post? You voted for me and unvoted me after my defense and before any other post.
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Regarding Catwalk, I agree with the following posts. Catwalk reactions to Rowain question were pretty over the top and while he claims he just went to "I don't care" mode, I thing his posts lean in a different way.
Bigger Wrote:sorry, this is funny:
Rowain: you do you think is guilty?
Catwalk: so much pressure. well here is a bunch of inexperienced players (lists 5 people with plenty of experience). here is 4 players who are less active (leaves off the 3 people with the least posts so far: Selrahc, Molach, Sareln).
Catwalk cont: now let me analyze this data, I'll be back with a spreadsheet later
Really, Catwalk. hmm, I don't really know what to think about that.
Lewwyn Wrote:Let me just say... So scummy. You're under pressure so you draw up a list of people and then after that say let me see if I feel strongly about any of them? What? Give me time so I can figure out if I even suspect the people I listed? Are you kidding me!
I would vote for you, but I'm already voting for you.
About this:
Catwalk Wrote:I think I'd actually make a better wolf than townie, yeah. Correct, the live game was my only scum game. And as has been mentioned elsewhere, I probably would go for bold plays in attempts to gain deep cover. Chances are that I'd offer myself for sacrifice in such a gambit, though
Personally I think I look pretty flailing here, as a wolf it'd be a lot easier to make up crap since you don't have to worry about it being correct. Which is another wolf-wouldn't-do-that argument, I guess.
I don't agree with this. In my opinion, it's not easy to make up crap when you are a wolf. Villagers make up crap normally (in hindsight, of course), because they don't know the info. When you have the info, you have to "act it", not only "be it", which is harder. So wolves tend to go with more objective arguments, rather than subjective ones (another reason why Gaspar commetn about my lack of understanding of him doesn't make sense if he thinks I'm a wolf).
That being said, Catwalk. I'll review Qgqqqq case later, as I've already said, but what was pointed out in the thread (by himself and Uberfish, if I'm not mistaken) make me think the main argument against him doesn't hold.
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Regarding Gaspar:
Gaspar Wrote:I have no problem with a policy lynch if there are no quality candidates. I just wonder why we had a bunch of quality options EOD1 and now we're all LETS LYNCH SARELN LOL or LETS LYNCH QQQUEUEQQCUE LMAOZ. Its as if we've all decided we're going to roleplay Lewwyn from the first couple days last game.
Perhaps. I use lot of noise a lot when I perceive lots of noise. I actually have a hardtime scumhunting in this environment because I just zone out when I think I hear villagers fighting other villagers over nothing. But I'm still waiting for answers to two questions:
Why was Ichabod a good candidate yesterday and nothing today when he's not so much as posted?
Why did Mattimeo not protect obvtarget zakalwe?
While neither of those might fit your personal definition of scumhunting, I assure you in both cases I believe them to lead us in the direction of scum.
This. I think of Sareln as a pretty easy and pretty lazy lynch. Now, on a day1/2 where we have no information - sure. But everyone was pretty convinced we have a lot of information from yesterday. (I don't agree with this, btw - I think we got a bit of information and a whole lot of lazy scumtells for people who don't actually know how to look for scumtells.)
If there was so much quality options on the EOD1, why don't you point them out? Let's take a look at who Zak and Novice pointed out as suspicious at end of night 1, since they are so accurate this game, according to yourself:
Well, both of them include Sareln, Novice talks about Qgqqqq, and none of them lists Mattimeo, which Gaspar talk about in this post. And for that, Zak refers to Gaspar and Novice also puts him as runner-up.
What I'm saying with this is the following: what are those "quality options" that Gaspar refers to? A lot of those players are getting heat right now and those are only noises, according to gaspar. The only one in those lists that he mentions is me. And his case against me is "Zak and Novice said so".
And why aren't you mentioning Injera and Catwalk right now? What made you change your mind?
And if you had payed a bit more attention you'd have found out that post by thestick (number 200) that is a very good proof of Mattimeo's innocence, just like I found the same post. Doesn't seem like you are trying very hard.
Rowain Wrote:You know that description (of rolling a blunt) fits you quite nicely. How about you step down from the peanut-gallery and try some scum-hunting? Your contribution today isn't really somethng to write home about.
PS: you used the lot of noise already lst night.
Agreed. Not only the "lot of noise" line, but also the "stupid village" line seem to me like just an impersonation of what is to be expected from gaspar.
Gaspar Wrote:Honestly, I watched a village full of lemmings jump off Selrahc last game after he claimed "Doctor" and then did nothing to prove it, so you'll pardon me if I'm skeptical of unproven role claims. The fact that zak was so obvious to protect just tweaked me more.
I only have a second because its halftime of the Arsenal match, so I'll get to Ichabod's Heroic Epic after the game. I'll give you a preview:
<post>
<post>
<same post>
OMG GASPAR IS SO SCUMMY FOR THIS UNSEEABLE REASON THAT ONLY I SEE. You've basically sung the same tune everytime we've played together since WW7, I guess I'll have to dig out the old posts to prove it. A task for this evening.
Whatever you might think, its apparent you ALWAYS think I'm a wolf when we play together and yet you're ALWAYS wrong and you keep coming back to it. So you're either scum or not on your village game this time. Period.
Why are you so defensive in this post? It's you that's accusing me as obvious/stupid wolf. Now I'm also suspecting you a lot, but even so, the fact that you defended more than attacked here is an interesting tell.
I'm only not voting for you because I don't think people will follow. catwalk has some heat already and looks very suspicious. And the result of Catwalk's lynch can be significant for my case against you (the other way around is also true). If catwalk is indeed a wolf, it's less likely that you are one. If you are one, it's less liekly that Catwalk is one.
Can you give me the proper name of your role please?
Having thought about it and having seen the name of thestick's role, I think a 'cloaker' is not a role name that would fit with the theme of this game.
Spy works fine as a mafia would have such things and so fits with Brick's theme, but I don't think 'cloaker' does.
Sorry in advance for a) wall of text and b) multiquoting which people seem to hate
uberfish Wrote:Exams on a sunday, really?
No, I had exams on a monday, we are in different time zones obviously different.
Selrahc Wrote:Qg can be coherent. I think he was posting in a much more articulate fashion in WW15 and elsewhere on the forum that I've seen him comment. This game though seems like a descent into incomprehensibility.
Why? I think if I was a wolf, I might well advise Qg to play up an angle of being a "weird" poster, who tend to be unlynchable while also not being expected to contribute a lot.
Qg
I would like to strongly refute that. I do generally try to post gramatically correct, but here is an early example of me posting from old hardware http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...post250060 As you can see the character limit is clear.
waterbat Wrote:@Rowain, @Pindicator:
I dont have much time to set up a full dossier on each player right now, but I will do a short writeup:
...
[SIZE="4"]5) Qgqqqqq: the Student[/SIZE]
wasn't seeing the case against him very strong. Don't know why he was equivocating between uberfish and catwalk yesterday, but an avoidance of thestick BW may be it.
...
so.... im a bit embarrassed by the number of "no reads" I just havent taken very good notes about individual posts/actions this game. I also would like to review yesterday's voting - I am just taking people at their word for the exact sequence of events.
with the limited info above, if I'd have to pick 5 more wolves, it would be:
uberfish
pindicator
Qgqqqqq
Arromir
...
Thanks Waterbat! I at least find these interesting to read. About thwe bolded points on the other hand, I have a problem.
Having just looked up "equivocating," I apologise. Again I have not had much time recently and this had an effect on explaining. I do think however that I have covered these since, but just to make sure.
It was not a switch back-and-forth as you and others make it out to be. My quoting Uber was because I didn't have enough time to explain, not beacause I think he is innocent.
I avoided the main targets, because I had no real read on any of them, and tbh thought the town was by voting for them. As it turns out I was wrong, proving once more that I am bad at WW.
Rowain Wrote:Please tell me what the village-read from Selrahc is based upon.
And again I'm absolutly uninterested in gettin lists of 20-something names with at least 50% 'no read', 'might be village or not' - shit tacked on them.
Please if you are a villager think whom you suspect the most ( 2-3 names are enough) and make your case there. Everything else is just useless clutter.
Sorry! I honestly thought that was what you wanted, and besides I think that is actually useful as it helps me to make sure I don't make any mistakes
That said I'll make a seperate post on suspects.
FYI the % scale was with thestick at 0% and Zakalwe at 100%
Gaspar Wrote:...
On an aside, I think its very scummy to ask what Mattimeo did specifically. But I don't think its scummy to ask his rationale behind not protecting zak. So, eh, wtf Matt?
Indeed. I think considering Matt is not cleared in many peoples eyes an explanation of actions (even if we avoid saying specifics) would be very useflu for confirming your role.
uberfish Wrote:...
Regarding qqq his original statement was that he voted me because of a "slew" of confusing posts, he's clarified that to my attack on Novice only and I find that explanation acceptable. However I'm still confused as to why he talked about unvoting (and whom he was referring to.)
....
Sorry, by unvoting I meant that my vote probably wasn't going to be of any use parked on you, a practical non-vote, and that I didn't have any reads on any of the lynch targets, so did not want to influence the result when I felt that I had no idea either way.
Injera Wrote:On Qg - I agree on waiting to hear more until he has access to a better device to communicate with. What bothers me most his series of posts is how the quality degrades over time. It feels panicky. Does anyone remember if he was under significant pressure last game?
...
I was not "panicky" last night. Instead I was physically exhausted and trying to post a defence that probably ought to have waited to this morning.
The descent into incomprehensibility is as I try to get out the posts fast so that I can go to bed.
And no, even if this harms my defence, I never felt under much pressure in WW15.
novice Wrote:Qgqqqqqqqqqqqq
Uhh novice do you think
a) My response was stupid and didn't explain
b)My post quality, charcter limit, something? felt shoddy and unbelievable
c) Posting history is not justified
d) None of the above (please try to compose something, as it is not giving me anything to defend otherwise)
Catwalk Wrote:That's exactly what I argued about thestick. And you suspect me for it? I didn't post much the first day and a half, and the game started 5 minutes after my bedtime. My activity has not been inconsistent with what I claimed it would be.
Merovech sounded off to me after the lynch. He was quick to blame me for my role in almost saving thestick while cavalierly dismissing his own more subtle part. Other favourite suspect is Q, mainly because novice seems to feel strongly about him.
This is my point!
Catwalk think for yourself and post actual reasoning rather then " smart guy over there says it. He been right before maybe he right this time too [hit rocks together].
Sorry if I sound frustrated, this is not supposed to be personal.
Thanks if you actually read this, suspects coming later.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
uberfish Wrote:Actually, I don't see why thestick putting matt on his "mild suspects" list would clear Matt.
It's more about the fact that he voted for mattimeo and the time of that vote. And may I say that this comment is very scummy, Uberfish. Especially by using the "mild suspect" wording outside of the context of that post (and without quoting it).
Hang on Ichabod, let me find all your solid contributions that aren't from the last 3 hours...
...
...
Ok, got them.
I'm defending because while the votes aren't there there are more voices in the thread pointing at me instead of you and I think its important whether you're guilty or not that people understand you're inept at reading me. I'm also defending because before the past couple hours you contributed fuck all nothing so other than the bit zak already presented there was nothing else to say. Plus, let's be honest, I'm lazy. Anyway, I'll get back to you later tonight when I have more time.
I haven't dropped Catwalk/Injera - at no point did I ever suggest I thought either was cleared. I just was hoping to get something interesting out of you first, since apparently nobody else was particularly interested in that.
Anyway, I'll be back later. Try and find my inner zen.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
Hey twinkletoes - I guess it was this post i was dejavu-ing to.
Selrahc Wrote:Can I ask.. has Mattimeo claimed a role name or just a power? Thestick was a "spy", I'd like to know if there is a similar nom de guerre for the cloaker. Is it just cloaker?
Not that its particularly helpful - I just remember thinking the same question you posted.
--
Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
.
by voting for them. As it turns out I was wrong, proving once more that I am bad at WW.
smart guy over there says it. He been right before maybe he right this time too [hit rocks together]. 
