[SPOILERS] Team EggHeads: DMOC and TeddyKGB (Now Lurker-Friendly!)

[TeddyKGB]

Ok, about library in MIT. I did a quick sim.
All other cities not much important in that sim, e.g. Stanford could build chariot instead of Lib and UC could also, instead of workboat.
Some Workers actions could be different.

Configuration on T69:

Result:
100% research for next 6 turns, 57bpt before bonuses, 70-73bpt on Math (depends if someone else beside Asterix finished it already).
GS will be done on T84.
Hamlet+2cottages in CM keep growing.
More cottages coming.
Copper will be connected on T70.

We could push for Math or Sailing+Masonry. Turn off slider on T75 and accumulate gold till T84 when Academy done and possible some more libraries online.

There is some setback with expansion, tho. And we are not whip enough.

If you like it, we could go this way.

------

Yuufo did mention it in chat with me few days ago on T59. I'll ask him about it again. I'm mostly worried they will settle stone (1 tile or even on top of it) before we could plant city#5 on T66. He told me they have no intention to plant city#8 soon and wanted to grow cities now, but it could be a lie. He is keep whipping.

No slavery for team M&M yet.


Edit: one more thing, we probably have to explore SE of CM rather soonish, there could be fish or furs near silver. We need happiness badly.

[DMOC]

Some thoughts:

-CM: this looks ok, let's work the 2 scientists here. Also, we can grow to size 6 and then double-whip a settler or worker (I'm guessing we can whip on turn 77-78 ish), so that way we maintain our research with 2 scientists.
-MIT: I'm a little wary of working 2 scientists in this city because we'll be sacrificing some production here (13 turns for a settler is simply too slow). MIT is great at producing workers and settlers; I don't want to sacrifice this advantage. Why not work 1 scientist for now? We can put the other population point on the mine and can make MIT build workers.
-Stanford: Let's have it finish its chariot, because if we're building libraries in MIT and CM, we don't need one in stanford right now. Also, after the chariot, we can grow Stanford and then chop a worker and/or settler. Related to that point, why not send the chariot from Stanford to scout the silver area? We can move it back up to Cornell later.
-Berkeley - workbot is good. Once it grows to size 4 do a worker or settler and 2-pop whip?

Long story short: library in CM definitely, if we do library in MIT then avoid it in Stanford and Berkeley, those need to help with workers and settlers if MIT is going to build libraries.



Now some other stuff:
-Do you think city #6 (UIUC, short for University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign -- we can just call it "Illinois") should go by silver? We might settle it 1 south of our 10-tile lake so it gets silver, snow deer, but is also coastal so it can have 3F2C water tiles too. Getting that silver will still be a substantial part of our research per turn. I would really like to have a sixth city by turn 75.
-Cornell: are we farming both floodplains? I imagine we want the copper mined first, but then we'll probably have 2 workers free for improving the floodplains (or cows if we have chariot for defense). Do we open with granary or library? A library might help with early culture battles if needed.

[TeddyKGB]

-CM: I agree, was thinking the same. T84 for Academy if we keep 2 sci every turn, but its probably better to whip another settler on T74-75 (our unhappy from previous whips gone on T75), take pigs for 1-2 turns to regrow back to size5 on T77-78.
This will delay Academy for 3 turns, but we need more happiness, so we could settle city near silver around T77-78, connect silver fast and at T87 grow CM to size7 and work fish+deer+3hamlets+2sci for 43.75 beakers from CM alone before bonuses.

-MIT: I agree, we may need more production in MIT. We could even not finish library on T69, if decide go for Sailing or Masonry instead of Math. Or if we need military. And library kinda wrong building for MIT, but Lib is cheap for us and gold is in BFC. And chariot instead of Lib could raise our expences again.
Lets start LIB in MIT now, grow to size4 on it and reevaluate. Maybe start worker or settler once MIT at size4.

-Stanford: Chariot ok. I just tried to keep minimum military units cause of units cost. We could also scout silver area with another chariot too, after escort settler for city#5.
Important note - we should put warrior on top of queue on T66 to avoid hammer decay.

-UC: Ok. Start worker or settler at size4 is a good option. We also will improve Wheat there soon.

Other stuff:
We didn't plant city#5 yet, as I said, Yuufo could be on expansive rush and decide plant city#9 near or on top of stone. That far from his capital plant would screw his economy even more, but he might think otherwise.
In Cornell I suggest we start with granary and improve copper before connect Cornell.
T66: Cornell founded. Works flood plains.
T68: Cornell at 6/22 food. Copper done. Cornell works it.
T72: Cornell at 11/22 food. Granary finished. Start library. Borders expanded last turn.
I think we had to farm at least 1 floodplains fast. 2 workers is a bit low for that city, but we can't spare more at the moment. We also have to improve cow, build roads if we ok with OB with India, chop forest (if we go for Math next, lets wait T75 to finish the chop and complete Lib on T76).
Its an option, we could decide go Lib 1st instead, grow to size2 without granary and start working copper at size2, but I think granary 1st is better (almost always is).

If we go for Math around T75, we could setup 4-6 workers to complete chop on T75 for some nice hammers into workers/settlers/whatever.
T75 is also turn our NAP with India ended.

I'll finish our turn in the next 45-60 min and will report.

[TeddyKGB]

Reports will follow.
But first, India offered OB in game, I decline.
Sent them this msg in chat:

Hello.
Thanks for offering OB. I decline it in game, cause I wanted to consult with DMOC first.
Anyway, I think we should chat and discuss it. Maybe some other deals too, that we didn't chat about on T59.
-TKGB

What you think?

I think we should negotiate OB as part of bigger deal.
And I really want to plant our city#5 before OB with India.

[DMOC]

Yes, I want city 5 first before we get open borders, so for now I think we should decline open borders. Good thing you put the pressure on them to propose the deals. :D

What kind of "bigger deal" are you thinking of?

-Will eagerly await the turn report.

EDIT: Interesting email from Asterix ...

Hello Teddy,

I am not sure how to chat using this thing, I somehow never see you online.

I was thinking more about the war, and probably you are right we have to start it earlier than we would like, we think we should have minimum one tech advantage over Yuufo each.

So I propose:

* We tech towards catapults (we can get them soon)
* You tech towards Horse Archers
* We both put 100% EP on Yuufo (I see OrgyNized graphs anyway and will share with you). Knowing Yuufo's research will be crucial to know when to strike

Moreover, we squeeze him from both sides from the North.

We have just met Cannibal Ponies. They are not very talkative and have met only one other team. They would not trade screenshots, either.

But it seems that they came by land, so we are not on different continents.

Asterix

So ... they actually met someone from the "other hemisphere" ... and Cannibal Ponies have met only one other team? What have they been doing?

[TeddyKGB]

Interesting msg from Asterix.
M&M contacted Pony.
LP was right - there are a land bridges. So we could have AggRome as a neighbour after all.
Well, more fun for Cataphracts, I guess.

Reply to Asterix.

Hi Asterix,

About chat, my other accounts:

ICQ# <...>
<...>

I'm still not sure early war is the best way for both of us. India's production is strong and will get stronger.
As I said, we should decide together, in my opinion.
This turn India offers OB to us, I declined.

What is your timing on construction, if we both agree to attack India early?

We are planning to found our city#5 on T66.
It will be 3 tiles away from India's city#6.
Problem is, we can't plant anywhere near India's capital. Capital protected by the salt lake from West, his city#3 from SouthWest and cities#5,#6 from NorthWest.

I will know more after T66, and we can talk and plan the best strategy against India together.
I understand, you will finish Math on T66 exactly, so we can discuss and you choose your tech path after we agreed on our strategy.
I'll send you screenshot on T66, so you can see our border configuration with India.

Interesting info about team Pony.
Could you tell us where you contact them, North or South?
Did they come with a scout?

-TeddyKGB

India part was kinda interesting too. We can't commit to early war now, we are lagging in tech enough already.
But we can leave this option open for now. And I want to be honnest with Asterix.
As I told him, we'll wait T66 and reevaluate.

[TeddyKGB]

T63.

CM whip 3pop settler. MIT start Lib. UC start workboat.
Pony founded city#3. So you could say they almost as good as LP ... at least in city numbers on T63.

(7) Vicky/India (CB): Turns 28, 37, 42, 50, 58, 59
(4) Sury/Byz (Us): Turn 33, 50, 58
(5) Pacal/NA (SutOxy): Turn 36, 43, 59, 63
(4) Ragnar/Rome (GG): Turn 38, 54, 60
(4) Isabella/Inca (Yos): Turn 33, 46, 62
(4) Willem/Ottoman (M & Ast.): Turn 38, 52, 62
(3) Mansa/Zulu: Turn 38, 53
(3) Darius/England: Turn 39, 55
(3) HC/Dutch (Orgy): Turn 42, 56
(3) Nap/Sumeria (Pony): Turn 49, 63

[TeddyKGB]

T64.

Scores, Demos, Graphs.
Not looking good, but we'll regrow fast next few turns.

Cities.
Corn improved and UC will grow T66, same turn Horses could be improved if we keep all 3 workers there so far.
On T66 3rd cottage will be ready in CM/Stan area.

Units and map.
NW area secured. Barb war from SE, but we should be ok.

[DMOC]

We need to think carefully about Asterik's proposal about HBR. I don't like the idea because HBR is a dead-end economic tech and we'd be going all-in on the Indian war. What if they tech Feudalism early?

Did we ever figure out what tech they took from The Oracle? If it's Monarchy that's worrisome.

Will comment more tomorrow after some sleep.

Edit: Good job with the turns. 4 new population points in the next 2 turns. Judging from the minimap the scout doesn't have to go too far to fogbust the coast (and he is woody II anyway).

Want to put our warrior near city 5 location on that plains hill to warn us of barbs or India?

Edit2: Do you think it's worth it to switch carnegie mellon to work the extra cottage we have unworked instead of the grass hill?

[TeddyKGB]

Reply from Asterix.

Hi,

we contacted Ponies in the South, they came with Scout. I am afraid we will not learn much from them, they insist exchanging screenshot is against the rules, although technical thread says otherwise? They also told us not to settle below any "land bridge" if we want good relationship with them. I guess it meant they came by land but so far they did not tell us anymore, even though I gave them exact directions to our capitol. strange thing they met only one team and were not even asking us for directions how to me more - I guess they were the "soft target" you alluded to at some point.

On the more important matter of war planning, I think the best for us would be to react to what Care Bears would do, although generally preparing for military solutions. We can get construction in less than 20 turns, although our economy would be in much better shape if we would take more time. Cannot log to game now, so just rough estimations.

Please send me screenshots of India's cities you see - so far I see only 2 of them, but I sent 2 units to scout around their borders.

Can you renegotiate EP deal with India? I think it is crucial for us to know what Yuufo is researching, but I will never learn it on my own - he is putting 100% EP on me.

Once we know exactly, how many (if any?) axes Yuufo has now, how long it would take him to research construction or Horseback riding + archery, we will have better estimation of when attack and with how many units.

I also agree that his research would suffer as a result of overeexpansion, but again key question is what technologies he currently has. It seems that he indeed took Metal Casting from the Oracle, although I am not sure what he research after priesthood. He settled wheat city passing by closer sheep city, which might indicate he does not have AH yet, but might be simply aggressive plant.

As I said, I think we should now enter "watchful waiting" phase with Yuufo. I would consider extending NAP with him a bit as I still do not have neither copper nor horses connected

Asterix