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[SPOILERS] scooter's Industrial Revolution

So where's all Dreylin's research coming from? Core cities finally allowed to grow to size, now working workshops and building research (in a golden age)?

Is there any target you can choose (assuming the initial part of the war goes well) that would help with crippling the research potential?
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I've given this a little more thought. I've swung wildly between being overly optimistic and overly pessimistic, and I've landed somewhere in between.

Here's the thing. There's only one way this invasion succeeds - if REM joins in an equally serious way. If he does, we might just be fine. Our combined armies are larger than Dreylin, and our combined production is definitely larger (or at least more sustainable) than Dreylin, Kremlin notwithstanding.

On the flip side - if REM tries to phony-war it and force us to take on Dreylin's full force, well we will lose and so will he, because I honestly don't believe he can handle Dreylin without our help. He's the guy in 2nd place, so the ball is kinda in his court. I would consider bailing out or locking in peace with Dreylin if REM doesn't commit and sending our units at Pindicator instead or something like that. The game will be lost at that point anyway, so may as well have some fun against someone who doesn't have both Infantry and Kremlin.

The good news is the 1g-1g trade from REM seems to suggest he's in. So as long as he's signaling he's in, we're very much good to go. So... let's Leeroy Jenkins this thing and see what happens?

There's my thoughts. Sullla - any general thoughts about all this?
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As you've basically said, either Dreylin is over-extended and this is your one chance, or he's not and it doesn't matter. Worst case, your lurkers cheer as you go down gloriously.

One odd thought - have you been able in any way to communicate to REM that the target is Dreylin? It seems the obvious (only) option to those reading this thread, but is it possible that he thinks you want to carve up pindicator?
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
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(June 7th, 2016, 20:19)scooter Wrote: So... let's Leeroy Jenkins this thing and see what happens?

As a lurker I believe I'm required to say: hammerhammerhammerhammerhammerhammerhammerhammerhammerhammer
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Quick note: I didn't play the turn last night. Dreylin finished a little later than normal, and by the time I would have been free to play it was too late. I'll play it tonight.

Dreylin whipped a ton of stuff last night (likely a mob of Infantry), so.... hooray. At least he and REM seem to be taking a lot of time with their turns, suggesting they're at least threatening each other?

My main fear is that Dreylin is going to cobble together 4+ Infantry in Dolphins by T323, and at that point I don't quite know what we'd do. Our numbers were predicated on having a lot of high-odds attacks available, and that may soon no longer be the case...

(June 8th, 2016, 03:47)shallow_thought Wrote: As you've basically said, either Dreylin is over-extended and this is your one chance, or he's not and it doesn't matter. Worst case, your lurkers cheer as you go down gloriously.

One odd thought - have you been able in any way to communicate to REM that the target is Dreylin? It seems the obvious (only) option to those reading this thread, but is it possible that he thinks you want to carve up pindicator?

I think it's pretty clear that we're both talking about Dreylin. He's very plugged into the game, and there's only one player we both want dealt with immediately. On top of that, we know he has units on the Donovan/Dreylin front because he's sniped a few Donovan cities, and he's honoring a turn split with Dreylin. We're definitely on the same page in that sense.

(June 7th, 2016, 09:26)rho21 Wrote: So where's all Dreylin's research coming from? Core cities finally allowed to grow to size, now working workshops and building research (in a golden age)?

Is there any target you can choose (assuming the initial part of the war goes well) that would help with crippling the research potential?

I'm assuming Dreylin did a combination of Rep scientist spam along with a full slate of wealth/research builds. The former especially is pretty powerful for him as he's got science modifier buildings up along with loads of Biofarms to support hordes of specialists. His MFG to fuel wealth/tech builds isn't exactly like ours, but it's no slouch either by the sheer quanity of land tiles he owns, so that doesn't hurt.

The hard part with Dreylin is that no - there is no single target we could hit to really hurt him other than the Kremlin. I've fantasized a bit about collecting up a huge Cav stack and dropping it two tiles away from his Kremlin city and hoping we get lucky, but we currently have 0 Cavs and 0 Stables so... It's a pipe dream currently. It's also not a typical civ game where most of a player's research power comes from a cottage cheese Oxford city either, which would normally be the other obvious target. So there's no quick fix on the Dreylin front.
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I also saw that Dreylin was (understandably) taking his time last night, so I didn't log into the game. Will poke around tonight and see if I have any suggestions.
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(June 8th, 2016, 09:22)scooter Wrote: ... we currently have 0 Cavs and 0 Stables so...
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Had a few minutes to login. Yesterday was time to be gloomy, so let's be optimistic today.

[Image: t321_rem1.JPG]

REM did declare as it seemed like he was suggesting he might. We don't have eyes over here, but we do on this side:

[Image: t321_rem2.JPG]

Game on. Unfortunately it means we have some competition for Gasparland, but on the bright side we have help against Dreylin. I'll take it.

[Image: t321_power.JPG]

This is of course delayed, so it's even closer than this. I neglected a demo shot, but the numbers are something like this now IIRC:

Dreylin: 1.8M
REM: ?? (2nd place)
Us: 1.4M

GETCHA POPCORN.

I did glance at Dolphins and Hedgehogs (the two Dreylin front cities by Textile Island). Two important things:

1) 0 Infantry in either one yet
2) Dreylin did not whip either one

It's possible he prebuilt a Rifle which means an Infantry will complete anyway. However, if he didn't, it means he won't be completing an Infantry end of turn. I forgot to check the EP screen to see how many hammers were invested in either city.

Anyway, I expect we'll see a couple Infantry by T323, but it was at least nice to see 0 on T321.

Mood today: Optimistic! Check in tomorrow for another complete 180!
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popcorn popcorn popcorn

[Image: RBPB33-221s.jpg]

Scooter, REM offered us a world map trade and this resource swap when I logged into the game. I accepted both, although we'll be connecting our own source of dyes next turn. I figure it's worth the goodwill and helping REM is very much in our interest. If you want to offer another 2 gold for 2 gold trade (assuming we haven't done so already), be my guest. We're attacking in two turns.

I snapped the same pictures of REM declaring war and moving in his invasion stack, not realizing that scooter had already posted the same thing. REM's timing and locating of his invasion is really good for us. He'll draw the brunt of Dreylin's army used to attack Donovan over in former India, and by attacking two turns before us, he's also going to pull attention towards Yaks in former Gaspar territory. It's almost like the REM attack is a coordinated diversion from our own move on Dolphins. Let REM go first and take the initial attack, then we'll sweep in and start claiming the rewards. Sounds good to me. mischief

By the way, REM's units are not glowing - no promotions. Quite a contrast from our stuff!

[Image: RBPB33-224s.jpg]

A reminder to scooter that we can revolt back into Representation civic this turn. I think we both agree that Police State was worth using and served its purpose, but now it's time to get some economy going again. I also turned on research, as I doubt we need much more than 1400 gold in the bank (plus we'll likely get some capture gold). Railroad coming at a slow pace.

[Image: RBPB33-225s.jpg]

We finally have all of our galleons built in the south, and now we're in the process of moving them into position. Here's my current suggestion for tactical disposition. I agree with scooter's signs for galleons #2, #3, and #4. Those are our 10 XP ships that can move 6 tiles per turn, and we can stage them back there in a defensive position. Let's have the ones on the eastern yellow dot tile face east, and the ship on the western yellow dot tile face west. That will be awful confusing as to where those ships are going - I think it will look like they are being staged in defensive position.

Our frigates and the 0 XP galleon can be staged on the red dot tile. This puts them in position to join the invasion with the ships moving through our fort, while also staging them in a more logical location. (Why would we have frigates back there?) Dreylin will probably assume we're planning an attack, but it won't be clear at all what city we're targeting. The city to the west, Ferrets, will probably look like the subject of our attack, especially because I'm having the workers build a road right on the border there this turn. neenerneener At the very least, he's left guessing and has to wonder where we're heading... on top of scrambling to defend against REM elsewhere.

If this sounds silly to you, then feel free to stage the frigates in the backlines with the galleons. (FYI, the privateer in Cotton Gin will finish at the end of this turn via forest chop, and will come along in our attack for vision.)

[Image: RBPB33-226s.jpg]

With Dynamite ready to start churning ships, Radio can go over to land-based military units. I like the idea to build a cannon here, as we'll want some of them for sure now that Dreylin will also have infantry. Dynamite can build a galleon and then hold it on the Radio/Dynamite area; even if we never do anything with it, Dreylin will have to consider the possibility of an attack. We can actually use his airships against him by feinting a phantom invasion in some places, while hitting hard in others.

The Hindu missionary out of Telegraph will want to go to Power Loom eventually, but I think our galleons are going to be full of units for the moment. Either we hold on to it for the moment or just convert one of our local cities.

[Image: RBPB33-227s.jpg]

Similar idea up here by Textile Island. I agree with the galleon staging positions except for galleon #4, which can stage on the yellow dot and still hit either Hedgehogs or Dolphins as needed. It's a bit less conspicuous than being in the city itself.

Our ships with less than 10 XP (which should be 1 galleon, 1 iron, 1 ship of the line, and 3 frigates - with 1 of those 3 frigates having 10 XP) should go on the red dot tile. Again, Dreylin might think it signals an attack incoming, but if we move at the end of Turn 322, he can't whip or draft in response, and by the start of Turn 323 it's basically already too late. Dreylin has not been building ships in this ocean, and once our two ironclads sweep away his ships of the line, he'll be defenseless on the water.

The second ironclad can't make it to that red dot tile, but it can make it to the tile west of Power Loom, and that's good enough to promote and smack Dreylin's ships. It will be joined there by one last frigate that we're building out of Contact Process this turn. Assuming the combat odds hold true (ironclad kills ship of the line, ironclad kills ship of the line - and even if one of them dies, our own ship of the line is there for cleanup) we can bombard Dolphins with 4 frigates. That will strip out 32% of its 40% defensive bonus, and then we send in the infantry. Hopefully Dolphins and Hedgehogs both fall on the first turn.

*****

It's an odd feeling to be on the other side of the gangup here in this game, after Speaker and I were the infamous target of the 5 team attack in the old Pitboss #2 game. Honestly, it's a lot more fun being in the alliance, even if the odds of actually winning the game are probably a lot lower. lol The situation here isn't really comparable to that game, of course, where teams were ignoring very fertile unsettled land to go attack another team 30 tiles away on the other side of the world. In this game, the whole map has been settled, and Dreylin is very clearly going to win the game if REM and our team don't respond in some way. And of course the skill level of the community has improved immeasurably in the last six years; Dreylin, OT4E, and REM are all fantastic players who have been putting on a show in this game. It's been a real pleasure competing here against them with scooter.

Still, sometimes I do miss the days when the other players would let us pick India on the SECOND pass of a snake draft. Ah, fun times. cool
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Oh wow, I'm definitely going to be having some popcorn. Good luck on the war. I'm hoping it'll exhibit lots of tactical skill on both sides. As Sullla mentioned, the skill level of the Realms Beyond community has really improved once the pitboss games started taking off. This is definitely a special place. smile I can't think of another previous game here (or anywhere else) that I enjoyed lurking so much.

For what it's worth, I'm beyond ashamed at our team's performance in Pitboss 2, even though the actual standings looked nice to us at the end. If we could go back in time and have that game again, I'd do a lot of different things.
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