RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[Maniac Marshall]

Actually it has a temple, I just whipped it last turn, but not a monastery. The monastery was being build from the overflow of whips since it could not be 2 pop whipped. The only other 80 hammer thing that I know of is a ball court =/.

The monastery obviously already has hammers in it.

[Maniac Marshall]

If we build a temple at the cap first, we can get it up to 71hpt for stone wonders with stone fairly easily and quickly. That said, I'd prefer we build the thing at HV if it can be done within a turn or 2 of the capital's speed. We're not expecting anyone else to build it, and then we could build the Uni in the cap and just explode our research rate

[Maniac Marshall]

I'll ask before I do this. I assume we're going to irrigate at least one of the FP at Ornata, and that would be the logical thing to do next?

[RefSteel]

I'll ask before I do this. I assume we're going to irrigate at least one of the FP at Ornata, and that would be the logical thing to do next?

Improving a floodplain should be the next thing we do at Ornata unless it still needs its forests chopped into a granary or something. That place has nil for production as I recall (desert hills don't count - not yet at least) so we might want to irrigate the fps just so we'll be able to whip needed infrastructure faster, even if we're going to cottage over them eventually.

(That's a long-winded yes vote from me.)

[Maniac Marshall]

It still needs a forest chopped for a grainery. However, the grainery can't be chopped up until the turn AFTER it grows, so we might as well get the floodplain farmed first, then chop the grainery.

BTW, I'm working on the report. One last question. Should I let the overflow at HV go into the monastery as I planned, or is there some other stratagem I should be using there for the wonder plan?

[RefSteel]

If we build a temple at the cap first, we can get it up to 71hpt for stone wonders with stone

71hpt for Sankore-with-stone at the cap should be impossible. Multipliers: +25% Forge +25% OR +50% Bureau +100% Stone-for-Sankore. That's a total of +200%. Final hpt will always be a multiple of 3. If all 5(!) grass hills are mined and being worked, plus monastery, temple, city center, sheep, silver mine, and a plains farm, it should get 69hpt for Sankore-with-stone. Each additional plains farm (I think three more plains are in the BFC, none farmed yet, right?) would add 3, for a maximum total (barring watermills, workshops, or specialists) of 78 hpt.

That said, I'd prefer we build the thing at HV if it can be done within a turn or 2 of the capital's speed.

I don't know; everything depends on the timing and current happy situation. A major whip cascade takes time to set up, scads of happy, or both.

We're not expecting anyone else to build it, and then we could build the Uni in the cap and just explode our research rate

Yep, regular-University in the capital is a great idea. We'll of course want 'em in Temminck and Feng Shui too. And five other cities when we can swing it, because Oxford will be insane.

[RefSteel]

Actually it has a temple, I just whipped it last turn, but not a monastery. The monastery was being build from the overflow of whips since it could not be 2 pop whipped. The only other 80 hammer thing that I know of is a ball court =/.

This is fine. It's not the 80 hammerness that's important; it's the generating-hammers-due-to-AP.

It still needs a forest chopped for a grainery. However, the grainery can't be chopped up until the turn AFTER it grows, so we might as well get the floodplain farmed first, then chop the grainery.

Makes sense. Try to get the granary completing at the same time that the city is getting its ~12th food in the bin (at size 2). Sooner is fine, as it changes nothing.

BTW, I'm working on the report. One last question. Should I let the overflow at HV go into the monastery as I planned, or is there some other stratagem I should be using there for the wonder plan?

Bit of a catch-22. I don't know if it will help to overflow into something else unless I know how much overflow there is, what it's built so far, when we'll get the stone, and how may hammers are in stuff it's started. Overflow into the monastery is almost certainly fine in any case. It might not be optimal, but optimal isn't worth the time investment.

[RefSteel]

I have to go, so I'll try to just explain briefly what I mean by a whip cascade. It's simple in concept, but not so simple to execute or explain; it probably has been used by others under a different name.

Purpose: Wonder placeholder - it's a way to start work on a wonder before you have the tech and/or the production-increasing resource. Also, a way to "whip" the wonder.

Requirements: Enough turns to set the cascade up ("start building the wonder") in advance and a number of different things you want to build at the city with a decent range of base hammer costs. If you have less time or less production and want it to really be a WHIP cascade, you also need lots of food and lots of happy.

Preparation: Put a turn or more of hammers into something you want to build, enough to take it *almost* to either completion or the point of being whippable for one less pop. For instance, 9 or fewer hammers into an aqueduct (or 14 or fewer hammers into a Grocer) at HV, allowing it to be whipped with massive overflow (or if you have lots of production and not so much food or happy, allowing it to be completed with lots of overflow.) Do NOT actually whip or complete it though - instead, start on something else with a significantly different *base* hammer cost, in the same fashion. The whole idea is to set it up for the next step:

Execution: Whip (or otherwise complete) a relatively cheap (in terms of base hammer cost) prepared build. Overflow into a more expensive (still in terms of base hammers) prepared build, and (assuming we're whipping) whip that build THE TURN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE PREVIOUS WHIP, choosing the build to ensure that the overflow plus new-from-this-turn hammers plus the whip overflow will not exceed the hammer cost of the thing you're building. (To ensure none of the hammers are converted to gold or lost or whatever.) Repeat until you're using your most expensive (in terms of base hammers) prebuild, with which you do the same thing. The following turn, if the whole thing was planned and executed correctly, you're overflowing into the wonder with its multiplier in place. The turn after that, if the wonder is expensive and you had a chance to prepare still more pre-builds, you can start a new cascade in the same way. Obviously, this whole thing takes a fair bit of planning, and the execution can get dicey, especially if (e.g.) the desired resource is delayed.

For us: I don't think we have enough turns before Stone to set up a good cascade at HV. My suspicion is that our best bet if we have enough food/pop there would be to put 78 hammers (two turns, not fully emphasizing production) into a University at the capital, delaying the third settler slightly, then whip the settler, whip the university the following turn (3 pop - Uni is 200 total hammers, right?) and then overflow into U Sankore. But I don't know if that's right because I don't know the timing, nor whether the cap can take that kind of whipping.

And now I really, really, really have to go. I'll try to post something later this weekend.

[Maniac Marshall]

OK, I've been trying to make these line up for like an hour. I give up. You'll just have to deal with the fault line. Unlike Ref, I am a graphic n00b.






As you can see, happiness is no longer an issue for this empire... Health on the other hand... Anyone else see a lot of grocers in our future?

Here's a look at the capital, currently building a settler for the Smithsonian site.



It's loaning out a mine in the south for one turn. More on this later. I'd also be inclined for it to loan that hill it shares with PR back to PR for a bit while it's building settlers, but PR is setting up for max overflow into a worker. My idea for what it's going to do can be seen in the build queue.

Next up is Pride Rock. It's building a pike, which we need.



It's building a needed pike. It's got 23 hammers into it, and will put 17 this turn, 18 the next turn, and then overflow 16 hammers into the worker. The idea here is for it to build it in 2 turns... no we're NOT going to whip Pride Rock for a mere settler. This town's been whipped enough and it grows slower than all the other mature cities.

BTW: Look at that picture above again and tell me what's "wrong" with it... Yep, you're right, it's working the FP Town. First time in weeks it's doing so. It's a single turn affair. It prevent's PR from being one food short of growth coming up in 4 turns.

On to Temminck: ugg... in the moring, I'm falling asleep at the keyboard.

[Maniac Marshall]

Err, morning is a relative term isn't it?

I got up in time to TAKE the rest of the screenshots, but not in time to upload them, put them up here, and comment on them. I'll do that when I get home from work in the "other" morning...