RB PBEM #1 - Pericles (SPOILERS!)

[sooooo]

What is harmful spying? I assume that poison water or incite revolt or sabotage are obvious. Is stealing techs harmful?

Well yes stealing a tech has to be harmful because then I cannot trade it to him. Say if Ruff stole aesthetics, it's equivalent to stealing 350 beakers from me (on normal speed) because I wouldn't be able to trade it to him for calendar.

A rules question: If someone steals a tech with espionage, can they trade it around with no-tech-brokering on?

[kalin]

Well yes stealing a tech has to be harmful because then I cannot trade it to him. Say if Ruff stole aesthetics, it's equivalent to stealing 350 beakers from me (on normal speed) because I wouldn't be able to trade it to him for calendar.

In that case it may be worth imo clarifying with him. It wasn't obvious to me.

K

[sooooo]

Well "harmful" means something that causes harm, don't think that needs clarifying. I recall Ruff using espionage in some of his SP games (or maybe SGs) so he knows what it can do.

I doubt Ruff would specifically negotiate a no-harmful-spying clause and then spy-bomb me, that doesn't make any sense. If he was going to spy-bomb me then he wouldn't have put the clause in there. It doesn't even work as a double-bluff since then he'd have to break his own clause and I don't think Ruff is the type to break a treaty.

There is a possibility that he'll settle the spy and put all the points on me, then when the NAP expires he has points to steal a tech or incite a revolt in my city. I guess we'll find out soon. Or maybe I should have checked the espionage screen since if he has settled it then it should show up.

EDIT: Or do you know something I don't know ??? ....

[kalin]

EDIT: Or do you know something I don't know ??? ....

No. I saw the spy and was wondering what Ruff's options were, hence my question.

K

[sooooo]

Errrrrr, looks like kalin was right.

sooooo,

As you might know, I have a Great Spy. I was planning on using him to EP-Bomb you but I wanted to discuss this with you first to get your reaction. The 'no harmful spy activity' of our NAP would still hold.

Are you available for a chat at lunch time (my time) tomorrow? Why EP bomb you ... to be honest, the main reason is that I think I would learn so much civ4 stuff just by watching your play, looking at how you manage tiles, units, etc.

Ruff

I'll have to think about my response. That flattery in the second paragraph won't get him anywhere!

[sooooo]

I gotta say that I don't understand Ruff's tactics here. If I was in his position and wanted to EP bomb the greeks, I'd wait a while. He already has a tech deal set up for aesthetics so no need to steal that tech. Plus we have a no-harmful-spying clause to our NAP. To go down the path of stealing techs from me I'd firstly not have mentioned the no-harmful-spying clause to our NAP. Then I'd have settled the spy because it gets more EP in the long run. Even if I were to EP bomb the greeks I'd not renew the NAP and then EP bomb me once I have more techs and then refuse to trade with me.

I don't know what his motivation is. I can't believe he'd waste a great person just to watch how I mm my cities and follow my units.

In other news I have agreed to trade aesth to athlete for IW and sailing.

[sunrise089]

...I don't know what his motivation is. I can't believe he'd waste a great person just to watch how I mm my cities and follow my units...

Lurker's comment: Spies are generally banned from MP play, but if they weren't I would understand the motivation to have visibility on you. Having a perfect sentry net on a neighbor without having to worry about regular spies getting captures or sentry units getting out-maneuvered can be quite valuable.

[sooooo]

Update: Had a slight barb infestation with 2 warriors sighted and then another one. Luckily I made a phalanx instead of an archer in Sparta. He has killed one and is hunting the other two down.

Sparta finished a settler who is 2 turns away from his spot, then hired 2 scientists and started on an archer. Athens is still on the Hanging Gardens. It could finish them next turn, but I think I'll delay it a turn to settle the new city first. If Ruff builds it next turn I'll regret it, but this is fairly early in the game and I expect him to be concentrating on settlers at the moment. I had to swap Thebes (commerce city) to library because I realised I didn't have time to finish both a granary and a library before literature. Both the horses and corn are improved there and I've started a cottage too. Corinth (Death Valley military city) is still on a granary and I've farmed a flood plains.

[sooooo]

Alright, chatted with Ruff. He say's he's not building the HG, so I'm definitely going to delay it to settle my next city first.

He said he's going to EP bomb me but not steal any techs or do anything harmful. Not a lot I can do about that. I decided to lengthen our NAP so that it runs to T100. I don't plan on attacking him anyway, instead I will just settle my north. Attacking someone who can see my every move does not seem wise!

My main concern is that he will give away (or sell) my information. He can tell people how many turns to go until a wonder or a tech.

Once my economy is up and running I may have to spend a few turns on the espionage slider.

[sooooo]

Well, not sure what's going on with m-h. He looks to have suffered an unfortunate bug but IMO it's too far down the line to correct it.

I killed my second barb with Mr Barb Hunter, just one more to kill!

Settler is 1 turn away from settling, production in Athens was reduced to get the HG at the end of next turn, not this turn.