Trainee captain yuris125 on the nautical skills test

[yuris125]

Have you started a settler yet? How are the treasure islands distributed?

I didn't, but with the Galleys I have in the area and the Imp bonus, I should be able to bring a Settler over in 4 turns. Gaspadore have an advantage because they have the circumnav bonus, but they not necessarily have a Galley in the right place, and they seem to have no short Galley path to the island. And I'm before them in the turn order, which gives me a head start too

Treasure islands are distributed quite reasonably, nobody has one near the starting island, but with good scouting they should be discovered quite easily. This one is just 8 tiles SW from Gaspadore's starting island, so it's rather surprising they still didn't discover it. As for other islands, Rego has one with gems, Pindicator has one with gold, I have one with incense (not sure it's equal to precious metals and gems, but that's what I have, and it's a unique resource on the map, so it counts as a treasure island). Seems quite fair, and it's either poor luck or bad scouting that Gaspadore missed this island

Commodore agreed to a Settler race btw, hope they stick to the agreement after they see the screenshot and realise just how close to their starting island this one is

[yuris125]

Settler turned out to be a 1t build in a nearby city, even without whipping (but with overflow from a previous whip). The Galley will pick him up on T125, unload onto the horse tile on T126, the city will be founded T127, assuming Gaspadore don't do it earlier

[yuris125]

OK, Gaspadore won the race. Wasn't even close, they ended up being ahead of me by 2t. Still, I think this was the best available option. This island is too close to them, and if I founded a city there without discussing it, I would've had difficulties holding this city in case of a war, probably would've lost more cities, and spoiled the best diplo relations I have

[yuris125]

Sorry for not updating, but basically I have no shot on winning this game, so there are no interesting plans or something. I completed Sistine Chapel this turn, and will make a feeble attempt to go for culture (because I definitely won't win another way). But winning culture on a water map is nigh impossible. I'm miles behind in tech, and once someone techs to Rifles and decides to kill me, they will do it without much trouble

[yuris125]

Had this exchange with Commodore

Hey Yuri,
As I'm fair sure is obvious, our war out west is going poorly, and I expect pretty soon to start losing cities in the east too. The Rego/Pindicator collusion is going to take us apart probably in less than the twelves turns or so still remaining on your NAP, and they obviously have no issue having the short NAP member attacking early, then gifting the city. As a result, I have a proposal: We raze everything, you and us. Next turn you request Malaka'Jin and the two cities nearby, and load up the garrison of your cities and send them to us, we'll gift a couple galleons for the longer-range stuff. Then, on turn 150 or 151, you declare war and start razing and pillaging our homelands and colonies, and we'll do the same. This massively unfun distortion of the game can only end one way, might as well rob them of their prizes wherever possible.
Seem like a way to go out with a bang?

Hey Commodore,

Sorry to hear your war isn't going well. I understand your feelings towards the Rego/Pindicator alliance; however, the razing you propose looks cheesy to me. I see your point that what they're doing is also cheesy, and would not rule this exchange out. But I would strongly prefer to do our best to defend against their attack, and die valiantly and honourably. If they're happy to win with a game-long cheese, then so be it

The problem I have with the mutual razing is that it doesn't really punish the Rego/Pindicator alliance, they only gain from it by having a shorter war and less war weariness. A stubborn defence, even if it's hopeless, would be more annoying to them

If you disagree, and strongly feel like going for the razing cheese, let me know. As I said, I'm not ruling it out - I just don't like it

Hey Yuri,
If you're not comfortable with it, by all means don't let me try to subvert that. I'm disgusted enough with the game that opening the save begins to feel like a chore than anything else, but I can slog onward.

I feel I need to say more about this. When I started playing MP, I thought games without diplo would be stale. Now I played in 4 PBEMs, 2 with diplo and 2 without, and I have to say that games without diplo were/are more fun. Both PBEM19 and this game were poisoned by 2 players forming an alliance and combining their might against others

Where I disagree with Commodore is that I don't think such alliances are disgusting. The fact is, everyone is trying to win using all means available and allowed by the rules. Forging a long-term alliance definitely increases player's chances of winning, and there's almost no risk, so there's no reason not to do it. It is cheesy, because everyone is supposed to play for himself, not for himself and his ally for most of the game. But it is allowed, and if one can forge such an alliance, more power to them

Commodore's proposal, on the other hand, feels to me as bad as city gifting to the 3rd party. It doesn't increase our chances of winning, doing city razing is something that can be done only out of spite. Maybe I'm trying too hard to play honourable, but I really don't feel comfortable doing something like that. Which is why I decided to decline his proposal

These alliances are annoying, and if I play in another game with diplo, I will suggest to only allow deals which can be agreed with AI in single player. This will basically mean no alliances, no NAPs and no border agreements. Hope we will try this slightly limited diplo one day, and it will be more fun than the usual diplo, which is normally revolving around NAPs and various forms of alliances

As for this game, I will play it out to the bitter end. I obviously lost it when Pindicator attacked me; but now I managed to get to Rifling 8 turns before the NAP with Rego expires, and 15 turns before the end of the NAP with Pindicator, so I have a chance to build up decent defences in preparation for the attack, which is probably imminent

[yuris125]

OK. I'm going to make a controversial decision. This turn there's a vote for a religious victory, and Pindicator + myself have enough votes to give the win to Pindicator. I'm going to do it. The game is frustrating to play, and I feel Pindicator would be a deserving winner, so I have no moral doubts about it. He played well for the whole game, leveraged the advantages of Vikings perfectly, and is a contender for the win in any case. I understand Rego, who is the other contender, will be frustrated by this decision. But I have no interest in playing on, fighting another defensive war, just to let Rego and Pindicator a chance to figure out a winner. Since we didn't ban the diplo victory, and Pindicator is on the ballot, while Rego isn't, the Apostolic Palace is going to be his game-winning advantage

If anyone still reads my thread, and if you think I shouldn't do it, let me know

[novice]

I'm reading.

[Nakor]

Sounds like a good enough decision to me.
I'm afraid AP victories will be banned permanently after this, though... :neenernee

[oledavy]

I feel a bit like a hypocrite for jumping in here, but I'm going to go ahead and add my two cents to the discussion.

Nice guy that Pindicator is, he did declare war on you earlier and pretty much take you out of the running. Now you're voting for him? In the case of PBEM17, Shoot and I had a long-standing alliance, so it at least made sense that he would vote for me. Here, it just feels like you're doing this to bring the game to an end.

If you're truly not interested in this game anymore, why don't you offer to resign from the game and have an AI take your place? Certainly sounds preferable to sitting through the Pindicator/Rego military sandbox, and still allows them their satisfying finish.

[yuris125]

Here, it just feels like you're doing this to bring the game to an end.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking about doing. From the conversation with Commodore I posted yesterday, he feels the same way, and wants to end the game. I discussed the vote with him, and he agrees with me changing the vote from myself to Pindicator. Actually, his suggestion about getting out of the game by razing each other's cities was what caused me to start thinking about it and ending the game this way

I think if there was no alliance between Rego and Pindicator, I would've played it out. Gifting the victory is cheesy, and it's arguable whether it's more or less cheesy than razing each other's cities out of spite, so that they're not captured by other players. But in this game I feel like I'm playing by myself against a team, like it's not a fair fight, and this is why it's frustrating to play and why I'd prefer to end it

If you're truly not interested in this game anymore, why don't you offer to resign from the game and have an AI take your place? Certainly sounds preferable to sitting through the Pindicator/Rego military sandbox, and still allows them their satisfying finish.

Didn't realise it's possible, but it probably is a better solution. I think I will suggest this in a tech thread and see what the general feeling is